MLB Draft Discussion: Day 2

[jeffk]

Maybe the brain trust has a new idea for pitching. Three innings every third day. A closer and a spare. 11 pitchers.

You know, you're probably not serious, but I have wondered if anyone has ever tried this. I don't see an obvious reason why not.

[Mike Sixel]

jeffk, it was tried in the 70s, I think, but it was too big a culture change for teams to adopt. Also, pitchers hate it because it means they make A LOT less money. I'd try it if I had a staff as bad as the Twins, afterall, it can't be worse. But it's just not something anyone in baseball is likely to try.

[jokin]

You know, you're probably not serious, but I have wondered if anyone has ever tried this. I don't see an obvious reason why not.

Billy Martin tried it out of a similar desperation that the Twins now share. After some initial success with the Oakland As, there were some arms that ended up being overworked, defeating the whole initial philosophy. With agents' heavy influence on the game, this plan can only be implemented on fringe, non-competitive, low-payroll teams like Oakland or KC.

[Shane Wahl]

Yet another catcher taken before the Twins . . .

[nicksaviking]

There is always plenty of talk about college coaches abusing the arms of the starters, and teams are concerned about the high number of pitches they go through per start. This practice may not be connected, but the Twins have recently been stung by Gibson and Wimmers going down. I don't want to claim the Twins are drafting college bullpen arms with the plan to convert them to starters because they see it as a way of getting around the typical abuse to college starters arms, but it may have factored into the decisioning.

[J-Dog Dungan]

How many of the Top 100 Prospects are still on the board? And, if any, is there a chance that they fall to the Twins with their next pick?

[Shane Wahl]

There is always plenty of talk about college coaches abusing the arms of the starters, and teams are concerned about the high number of pitches they go through per start. This practice may not be connected, but the Twins have recently been stung by Gibson and Wimmers going down. I don't want to claim the Twins are drafting college bullpen arms with the plan to convert them to starters because they see it as a way of getting around the typical abuse to college starters arms, but it may have factored into the decisioning.

Certainly there are relievers who could become starters, yes. I hope you are right. That is a good point.

[J-Dog Dungan]

Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

[Shane Wahl]

Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

Mostly a reliever, again. Good number of strikeouts and without the walks.

 

Maybe they are onto something with converting some of these guys to starters.

[nicksaviking]

Who knows anything about this Zach Jones? (other than he is a pitcher)

Ha, the profile video for him on MLB's site is only of him taking uppercut swings at fastballs. So not sure about his pitching ability. Pretty big upper body for his height it looked like.

[J-Dog Dungan]

That is what i saw too. Not much of a scouting video....

[drivlikejehu]

Mostly a reliever, again. Good number of strikeouts and without the walks.

 

Maybe they are onto something with converting some of these guys to starters.

It's not like teams haven't tried before, Twins included. There is a reason those guys are relievers. At least with a high school player there is more upside remaining. This is just a fail strategy that does nothing to address the needs of the system.

[J-Dog Dungan]

Well, the Twins are sticking to what we thought they would, just not exactly; while they may not have drafted any solid SP prospects, they have drafted 5 pitchers in 7 draft picks.

[PMKI]

Any chance we can grab Ty Buttrey, Hunter Virant, Walker Buehler, or any of those HS arms and sign them?

[jokin]

Well, the Twins are sticking to what we thought they would, just not exactly; while they may not have drafted any solid SP prospects, they have drafted 5 pitchers in 7 draft picks.

"Less is More" "Quantity not Quality" Spread the $12 Million around, pay under slot as much as possible, find the diamond in the rough in the later rounds.

[StormJH1]

I don't understand this at all. It's hard for me to imagine star, elite pitchers in amateur baseball (HS and college) being thrown in the bullpen unless there was a REASON they weren't starters. I'm sure it's possible to convert one or two of these guys, but why do it?

 

I'm not even as alarmed by the fact that they're drafting 18 year olds instead of 20-22 year-old college pitchers, I get that this is more long-term. But if you're drafting these relievers because they throw mid-90's and "touch 97", they aren't going to do that as starters. Look at the difference between Perkins as a starter versus a reliever.

[twinsfanstreif]

I don't get drafting a bunch of relievers, it hasn't worked in the past, why would it work now? The guy from rice isn't even the closer on his team and is probably the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on his team. Wasted picks, wasted opportunities. This is becoming so common it's not even funny. However I do like the Brett-Walker pick, he has a lot of power. Passing on Brown, Lovegrove, and Buttrey could come back to bite us although they may all 3 go to college. I want high upside guys at this point in the draft, not a bunch of Billy Bullocks who will probably fizzle out in AA. Seriously have ANY of these early round relievers worked out for us?

[Shane Wahl]

Some college relievers are in that role to help the team as much as possible, but could be starters (Purdue has two solid ones who do that in Wittgren and Mascarello) both in college and moving forward, especially if they have two good pitches. I don't like doing this with a BUNCH of pitchers though! And still . . . passing up catchers and third basemen like it's going outta style . . .

[nicksaviking]

I'm feeling less worried about all the reliever talk. Listening to the guys on MLB discuss every pick, it is pretty clear, they think EVERONE is a bullpen arm. It seems no starters get drafted after the 2nd round if you listen to them.

[nicksaviking]

Another Rice closer, we got them both.

[Winston Smith]

Does it appear the Twins way is to build from the bull pen out?

[Gernzy]

Another Rice closer, we got them both.

Ok now that is alittle sad lol.

[Mike Sixel]

The difference is drafting starters that become relievers (because that's how it usually works), and taking guys that are already relievers. At this point, it is what it is. I have little confidence that three years from now, this minor league system will have any starting pitchers from this draft so far. And that's not good.

[Miles]

Stats on the Rice pitchers from this season:

[TABLE=width: 631]

Player

era

app-gs

cg

sho

sv

ip

h

r

er

bb

so

2b

3b

hr

ab

b/avg

wp

hbp

bk

sfa

sha

Tyler Duffey

1.93

36-0

0

0/2

7

51

33

12

11

21

68

4

1

2

182

.181

3

2

0

0

3

J.T. Chargois

2.15

25-0

0

0/2

8

37

28

11

9

12

38

5

2

1

133

.211

3

2

0

0

8

[/TABLE]

[nicksaviking]

I guess there's more to these guys than the numbers seeing as the stats say Duffey gets drafted first. I wonder what puts Chargois over the top. The "experts" made it sound like Duffey also may have the ability to start where they all said Chargois is surely a bullpen guy.

[Cap'n Piranha]

I don't understand this at all. It's hard for me to imagine star, elite pitchers in amateur baseball (HS and college) being thrown in the bullpen unless there was a REASON they weren't starters. I'm sure it's possible to convert one or two of these guys, but why do it?

 

I'm not even as alarmed by the fact that they're drafting 18 year olds instead of 20-22 year-old college pitchers, I get that this is more long-term. But if you're drafting these relievers because they throw mid-90's and "touch 97", they aren't going to do that as starters. Look at the difference between Perkins as a starter versus a reliever.

You're assuming that these kids can't improve once they leave college. Josh Willingham is the best player on this year's Twins, but was drafted in the 37th round. Mike Piazza, one of the 5 best hitting catchers of all time was drafted in the 50th round. By all rights, both of those guys were "we need some warm bodies in minor league camp" picks, and one is going to a HOFer, while the other will have a solid decade+ career.

[jokin]

Stats on the Rice pitchers from this season:

[TABLE=width: 631]

Player

era

app-gs

cg

sho

sv

ip

h

r

er

bb

so

2b

3b

hr

ab

b/avg

wp

hbp

bk

sfa

sha

Tyler Duffey

1.93

36-0

0

0/2

7

51

33

12

11

21

68

4

1

2

182

.181

3

2

0

0

3

J.T. Chargois

2.15

25-0

0

0/2

8

37

28

11

9

12

38

5

2

1

133

.211

3

2

0

0

8

[/TABLE]

 

 

Are you sure that Chargois' name didn't get stuck in the Twins copier and all you are quoting are updated stats? MN Twins better get a DNA test, or maybe this is a PR stunt, these guys are either twins or clones.

[J-Dog Dungan]

Wow, Duffey, at least according to these stats, was striking out about 37% of the guys that he faced. That is some serious good stuff.

[Miles]

At least we've cornered the market on toolsy outfielders and relief pitchers. New strategy consists of pitch-to-contact fly-ball soft-tossers with five outfielders...

[jokin]

Wow, Duffey, at least according to these stats, was striking out about 37% of the guys that he faced. That is some serious good stuff.

That's what's confounding about why he went so much lower than Chargois. My guess is Chargois will be tried out as a starter and Duffey will be groomed for high leverage late innings.