What Would It Take To Question Your Own Fandom?

[gil4]

I became a fan in '71 or '72 (age 6 or 7). I survived from then through '86 (some pretty rough times for the Twins) while living halfway between Boston and NY. I'm sure I'll survive this.

[Gernzy]

I cheer for all Minnesota teams. For me it has to do with pride. I love Minnesota and loving l being from here. When one of our teams does good, we can brag about it to people in other states. Even when we are losing I still watch. I enjoy when we get national attention because it seems like we don't get enough of it.

[twinsnorth49]

Since July of last year I haven't bought tickets to any Twins games. I have gone to a couple, when the tickets were free. When watching from home I've been tending to flip the channel after the 3rd inning (usually because the Twins are down by several runs). I still consider myself a fan, but I've got no reason to dedicate time and money to a product that I don't feel is worth it. I'd say I'm a bandwagon fan, and I don't think anybody should be sorry for jumping off recently.

That's one of the most honest posts I've ever read here and probably represents most of society. Professional sports, especially ones that play long schedules and play in large stadiums are, if you think about it, dependent on the bandwagon fan. Most fans don't represent what the majority of fans on this site represent, the ones who revel in every movement of the game, the strategies, the rivalries, the highs of winning, the lows of losing and of course the pure enjoyment derived from second guessing management as if we know better.

 

Most fans enjoy baseball but don't immerse themselves so much into the game as to really care what impacts winning or losing on a micro level, they enjoy home runs, they enjoy great catches, they enjoy the atmosphere and comraderie of being with friends and family and they particularly enjoy winning. You don't need to think about what constitutes great baseball as long as your team is winning, the proof is already their on the scoreboard, why look further than that. Winning begets watching and when any team in any sport is on a roll a far greater number of people that what normally constitutes the loyalists get swept up in the excitement,that's a good thing.

 

NFL football in some cities may be an exception, but not all. Playing only 8 home games plays a role in that however, high demand, low inventory is a good way to maintain interest. Hockey in Canada is an exception, but being from there I can attest that the reasons for it are, there really isn't anything else to do in winter and well, it's hockey and it's Canada. Hockey in the US is most certainly a bandwagon sport, win and everyone loves hockey and always did, full arenas, same for basketball and the same for baseball, winning is exciting, contagious and most of all, fun.

 

Those fans sitting in the park in September with their team 20 games out of 1st place and playing minor league call-ups for a look-see, that's us and the majority are not like us, that doesn't mean the rest aren't welcome to join when and how they see fit, we need them to.

[glunn]

Well said Twinsnorth.

 

I have been a fan since 1965, and only death or dementia can change that. But I also respect the fans who look away when the team is performing poorly.

 

It seems to me that the major problem this year is poor starting pitching. The hitting has been better than I expected, and the defense seems (barely) adequate.

 

If the pitching could just get to league average, and if Morneau and Valencia can break out, there could be a lot of wins. Span, Mauer and Willingham are all already off to decent starts and could do better...

 

I guess one sign of a "die hard" fan is that he/she is always thinking of a scenario where the team can still make the playoffs. I have not yet given up. If Liriano can work out his issues, if Pavano can increase his velocity, if Blackburn can pitch like he did in spring training, if Hendricks can gain more confidence and Marquis can have a miracle year, we could still make the playoffs.

[Ultima Ratio]

I think I'd suggest we slip into something more comfortable...and hand her a Twins jersey

Haha... that would certainly would be more comfortable... haha!

[twinzgrl]

I've been a fan since 61 when my dad took me to my first game at the old Met. I can still smell the brats and see the cardboard megaphones filled with popcorn. Harmon, Tony, Zoilo....loved those guys! But, I've loved them all, winners, losers, champs, cellar dwellers...it is my addiction. I tell my kids that when they visit my grave after I die, to please leave a Twin's schedule. Do they frustrate the heck out of me at times--absolutely!! But, I watch or listen to every game anyway. GO TWINS!!

[Dilligaf69]

Always a Twins fan....ALWAYS! but I won't get the MLB pkg this yr and halfway thru last I cancelled. I want them to win and follow gameday or the box score every day but my expectations are very low right now so I don't take the losses as hard when i don't expect them to win.

[Mike Sixel]

Still a fan, but I find myself spending more time here and listening gleeman and the geek than listening to games right now. Taking them off "free" tv is a huge mistake for keeping fans like me watching. Also, I find it hard to believe I'd pay real money to see a game this year. No chance I pay full price this year. Too many other ways for me to spend time, than 3-4 hours dedicated to driving, sitting, and watching, and driving home.

[powrwrap]

I'll always be a Twins fan. I love baseball and they are my hometown team. But lately it's been the death of a thousand cuts. Watching Torii go was hurtful. Trading Santana was a painful one. Garza/Bartlett for Delmon/Brendan left scars. I'm kind of losing enthusiasm. Last year's team basically phoned it in almost every game. There's nothing to get excited about. This team is going to be dreadful for years. It's the mid-90's all over again.

[BobAzar]

Since I got a Twins tattoo for a graduation present to myself, I would have to say it would take laser removal to make me not a fan. Living out of the TC (and MN) for the past 5 years made me realize how big of a fan I am. It takes time to follow a team out of its home region (obviously easier now than pre-internet). I dont remember much of the '87 series (I was 3) but I remember the joy of '91. But I think having my formidable years during the 90s actually made me a bigger fan, because you know how bad it can get, and makes the last ~10 years feel that much better.

On a side note, there's a great book "Baseball and Philosophy" that asks a similar question, when is it acceptable for fans to no longer be fans. The author concludes it is acceptable ONLY when the team engages in illegal or immoral behavior (ie. 1919 Black Sox), but not because of losing or incompetence.

[TheMix]

Dang, I really love the way this thread has panned out for the most part. So delightful to see the reminiscent posts.

 

I follow a certain blog's facebook account on twitter...this is someone I don't think I've seen post here at all, but it's really troublesome to see their posts. It almost seems like they revel in loathing the team that they claim to be fans of. They get so cynical that it's almost enough to prompt some existential crisis of faith. What's the point? I mean if that's what drives you, to be unrelentingly cynical, then I guess that's your right, but why? They ask for changes nearly every day, regardless of wins or losses, and I get the sense that even if changes WERE to be made, they'd find a way to hate them. They called for the firing of Bill Smith, that happened, and they got angry of the re-hiring of Terry Ryan, despite the fact that he presided over one of the most productive times in Twins history, and made one of the best trades (and, to be fair, one of the more poor) in Twins history. So it confuses me as to why these people still watch, or read, or care at all. If you're going to hate, win or lose, what's the point?

 

That said, there is nothing in the scope of what is truly imaginable to make me think of losing my Twins allegiance at this point. What I can say about myself is that I'm a fan that's currently dawning a Twins cap, working for a very meager wage at Minnesota-born franchise in the city of Austin, TX. Yet I still retain an MLB.tv subscription so that I may watch bits of nearly every single game while on smoke breaks (yes, I'm that guy) or while slicing up deli meats at work, despite the fact that they nearly lost 100 games last year. I shelled out $50 on a whim to go see game 162 last year and cheered every second of that game while shouting vehemently at the guy behind me that chose to spend the bulk of the game shouting obscenities at Danny Valencia (who actually did decent defensively that game). I was at Metrodome in a large suite with Jack Morris and other fans for the Game 162 when the entire stadium waited with the team to see the result of a different game to find out that they had won the division. I was there when Chuck Knoblauch made his not so triumphant return to the Metrodome when my rowdy college cohorts in the home run porch deemed it appropriate to sling any and all pieces of litter at him, and TK had to come out and calm them down. I took full advantage of dollar dog nights, consuming, at my peak, 7 1/2 hot dogs in one sitting. And I once went to a game where a belligerent fan took it upon himself to taunt Coco Crisp by shouting "You got nothin Crips! (he really did say "Crips") Face on a cereal box, Crips!" With all those memories cemented in my mind, not even counting the WS wins, there is nothing that could conceivably tear my mind away from them.

 

I live in Texas now, so with our team waning, it does give me the opportunity to also root for my new hometown team, the Rangers and their Twin associated coach. But, rest assured, when they play each other, I'm pulling for the Twins no matter what. And I see other ways in which to be optimistic. A week and a half ago I was calling up a friend in Minnesota at 2 am (he's the manager of the Happy Gnome, so he was still up) to tell him that Miguel Sano had a stratospheric 1.200+ OPS. We may not be doing well right now, but barring some very bad sequence of events in the next 3 years (just knocked on wood), we will still have a catcher that's nearly certain to have an average over .300 that hits gaps fairly efficiently, and hopefully a third baseman that's tearing the snot out of the ball, a shortstop or second baseman that's also doing the same, an outfield that will cover a ton of ground, whatever this year's #2 pick is, and presuming this year is going where it looks to be going, another top 5 pick coming up through the system. Even if I can't watch this team win every night, I can look toward the future with a fair amount of optimism.

[glunn]

Mix, you are a true fan. What's it like wearing your Twins gear when you go to games in Texas? Are the Rangers fans tolerant?

[TheMix]

I haven't been to a game down here yet (only been here 2 months), but I would assume they're tolerant. There's a quasi-Minnesota-nice vibe down here, which means they're nice about almost everything, except gay people and not going to church I think almost every fans are tolerant. I've been to Fenway, and they gave me some crap for about 5 innings, then realized I could take it and invited me out for beers down in South-E. And I didn't even get murdered, so I think that's an accomplishment. When I do go to a game down here (which I think will be in August) I will most proudly don my Twins apparel, just as I have in the other visitors' stadiums I've been to. Btw, anyone that hasn't been to PNC Park, go....now.

[ChuckkJay]

I applaud all of you who vigilantly watch/listen/gameday every single game. That's awesome. I always consider myself a huge Twins fan. I was a senior in high school in '87 and we went to a zillion games that spring and summer. Alas, I moved to Cali in September of '87. With no money for return flights to see the games in October.

 

In '91 I was in college in Madison. Didn't need as much $$ to drive four hours back to MN to watch the games in person ... but, being a college student, money was still short and was largely spent on cold beverages while watching the games on TV. I have crystal clear memories of Kirby's Krush (in a bar), and Jack's Gem (solo in my girlfriend's apartment because I refused to watch it with anyone lest I be distracted. She had a nicer TV so I made her leave for the whole game).

 

I live in Denver and, sadly, have only been to two games at Target Field. Sadly, they were the first and last playoff games at that field so far, which we lost and in which the home fans were as full of energy as a plate of cold fish. (Sorry, that's my story, I'm sticking to it, and I've ranted about it here before).

 

I can't watch/listen/gameday every single game. I guess I could, but I don't. I don't view that as detracting from my fandom; but I sure am impressed by all of you who do. I will say though that I've remained a staunch Twins supporter among my buddies, which is challenging. I'm friends with a number of hardcore Boston and Wisconsin fans. Think about that. As a Vikings and Twins fan, I've taken a LOT OF HEAT in the last ten years from those guys.

[Miles]

Three things would change my love for the Twins:

1. Contraction of the team

2. Relocation of the franchise

3. My death

 

That's about it!

[Thrylos]

Three things would change my love for the Twins:

1. Contraction of the team

2. Relocation of the franchise

3. My death

 

That's about it!

I can see 1 and 3 , but since you live in FL, why would you care about relocation? Not that the Twins will relocate any time soon. I do intend to still be a fan of the other major Minnesota team, even though the locals are running it out of town...

[whydidnt]

I was going to post that their isn't anything that could get me to question my fandom...until the really strange roster moves the Twins seem to keep making. I'm actually putting off getting tickets to some upcoming games until I see how things shake out, but I'm having a difficult time financially supporting a team that seems to have a death wish. I think it may be like giving an alcoholic a litre of Vodka as a Birthday Present.

[CDog]

I haven't been to a game down here yet (only been here 2 months), but I would assume they're tolerant. There's a quasi-Minnesota-nice vibe down here, which means they're nice about almost everything, except gay people and not going to church I think almost every fans are tolerant. I've been to Fenway, and they gave me some crap for about 5 innings, then realized I could take it and invited me out for beers down in South-E. And I didn't even get murdered, so I think that's an accomplishment. When I do go to a game down here (which I think will be in August) I will most proudly don my Twins apparel, just as I have in the other visitors' stadiums I've been to. Btw, anyone that hasn't been to PNC Park, go....now.

Agreed that most fans are pretty tolerant of gear. I've been to games all over (including two Twins games in Arlington), and almost never had an issue. Old Yankee Stadium was the lone exception and that was probably an isolated incident as our group was large and included one knucklehead with little man's syndrome that flares up especially when he's drinking, and we were seated near a group with a wannabe tough guy. The mix was a little combustible, but there still was no real incident. And the young kid in a Red Sox hat nearby took more abuse than we did. I think most of the "out of town" fan incidents at least partly involve behavior as the instigating factor more than just wearing a cap or a jersey (not saying that condones a home retaliation, just that it can lead to one). OK...sorry...back to the topic...

[CDog]

I was going to post that their isn't anything that could get me to question my fandom...until the really strange roster moves the Twins seem to keep making. I'm actually putting off getting tickets to some upcoming games until I see how things shake out, but I'm having a difficult time financially supporting a team that seems to have a death wish. I think it may be like giving an alcoholic a litre of Vodka as a Birthday Present.

This came off a little bit like, "I'd never sell my dog for any price in the world! Oh...wait...a hundred bucks? Done."

[glunn]

This came off a little bit like, "I'd never sell my dog for any price in the world! Oh...wait...a hundred bucks? Done."

It seemed that tonight that the Twins were not trying very hard -- like they gave up early and just wanted to go home. So I might sell my dog if he kept deliberately urinating in my shoes. I watched almost all the games last year, despite the terrible play, but it's especially painful when it seems like the players are not trying.

[twinsnorth49]

It seemed that tonight that the Twins were not trying very hard -- like they gave up early and just wanted to go home. So I might sell my dog if he kept deliberately urinating in my shoes. I watched almost all the games last year, despite the terrible play, but it's especially painful when it seems like the players are not trying.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. I just think Williams had them frustrated, it happens.

[glunn]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. I just think Williams had them frustrated, it happens.

Others may disagree, but it looked to me like there was not much energy, and like the hitters were not making much effort to focus at the plate. And when they made outs, they did not seem very disappointed. Maybe I am just projecting my own frustration.

[tobynotjason]

I was a huge Twins fan as a kid, but also sometimes glanced at the Pirates' box scores on accounta family ties. I came back to baseball six-ish years ago (after a good decade and a half of following no sports other than, occasionally, mma and football/soccer) as a fan of the sport in general first, the Twins second. Really, I just realized how much I enjoyed watching ANY major league baseball game, regardless of rooting interest. But the Twins were certainly the no-question-about-it hook to hang my baseball-in-general hat on.

 

Approaching the game more analytically - or at least with far better tools, for obvious reasons - than I did as a 10 year old, and with an admittedly jaded worldview and time-heightened loathing of yah-you-betcha mainstream Minnesota culture, it was probably inevitable that my would-be Twins fandom renaissance didn't stride unproblematically onward. Indeed, the Pirates supplanted them as my first rooting interest a couple years ago. They're currently run in a less... frustrating manner and don't continually insult me with a unique brand of organizational kool aid marketing, but I also wonder if it's not in part because they my face isn't constantly rubbed the wrong way by their "average" fans by dint of geography. It doesn't hurt that two decades of failure mean Pirates forums like these are populated by relatively knowledgeable diehards. (For similar reasons, I tend to enjoy reading the banter on Royals boards more than on Twins boards. Those are tendencies, not rigid laws. There's good stuff and bad stuff everywhere.)

 

Regardless, while I spend as much or more time watching and thinking about the Pirates, I doubt I'll ever have the emotional connection with any baseball team most fans seem to have. It just doesn't carry over into my real life. When I see people crying over losses or totally losing their **** over a win, I don't fully get it. It's only entertainment, and while I can get caught up in a game while it's happening, when it's over it just doesn't affect me.

 

That said, enough of me will always remember what it was like to love the Twins in the 80's that I doubt I'll ever actually stop following them. If they ever totally reengineer the field staff and front office and for the love of god fire dicknbert, who knows? Maybe my gut will kick back in in an unexpected fashion.

[glunn]

I was at the game tonight and felt like a Cubs fan -- waiting for a first hit that never came.

 

I took my wife, who does not follow baseball. She likes the food, the atmosphere and the people watching. She asked me if the Twins have been this bad all year. When I said yes, she asked how I can watch all the games on TV.

 

We left after the middle of the 8th inning. I did not want to witness the celebration of what looked like an almost certain no hitter.

 

I was at Game 5 of the AL championship series in 2002, and had to endure Adam Kennedy hitting three home runs, and the Angels jubilation at winning the AL championship. I still get depressed when I remember how bad they beat us that day.

 

When your team gets totally slaughtered, it is painful. And I would like to roast that stinking rally monkey on my grill and feed him to my dog. But I remain hopeful that next year the Twins will be a lot better.