chpettit19

Same way he thought the last 2 teams were going to be good enough to compete without making real additions during the offseason. He's bad at self-scouting.

They think they have the pieces to compete. Falvey hasn't been lying. He really is looking to build around the pieces they have because he thinks they can win. They aren't punting next year (on purpose), they're trying to compete next year. With Alex Jackson, Ed Julien, Kody Clemens, and Trevor Larnach.

I agree it's low wattage in the sense that he's not a good player and doesn't move the needle in any meaningful way, but I disagree that it doesn't mean anything. The Dobnak trade didn't necessarily mean they're cutting the payroll to nothing but guys making 4 mil or less, but it absolutely was a sign that they're drastically cutting payroll, and the financial side of things became the most important part of their team building in the near term. You don't include him if the payroll isn't a serious concern or the priority. This being a "treading water" trade doesn't make me feel any better about it. It's bad roster management to give up a controllable piece for a guy with no options if you're just trying to tread water. You can sign an Alex Jackson type at any point of the offseason. Or claim them. They passed on claiming a glove only guy. What would lead them to believe that about Jackson? I don't disagree that catcher is a unique position in this way, but it's not like he's a Martin Maldonado/Christian Vazquez type vet with a track record of being good with pitching staffs. Rortvedt has more run as a glove only, specialist in MLB with the Yankees, Rays, and Dodgers all trusting him with their pitching staffs while they try to compete. I'm not saying that that isn't part of the equation or it's not possible that it's what they're thinking, but I'd love to hear the explanation for why they'd think so highly of Jackson to lead their pitching staff even if they move Jeffers. Again, I'm not saying this is some seismic move or dooming the team, but I do think it says something about their plans. There is simply no reason whatsoever to trade for a guy with no discernable advantage in leading a young pitching staff nor future upside at this point of the offseason if you're leaning true rebuild. Falvey has earned every bit of the fan distrust he gets, but I think dismissing his claims of wanting to compete and build around the current roster is a mistake. I think those are his true intentions and it's what he'll push for unless the Pohlads demand he trades the starters or Jeffers or Buxton demands out. And it's what not trading anything but expiring deals and pen pieces suggest. It's what bringing back Roden, Outman, Bradley, and Abel suggest. If you're doing a true rebuild you bring back the highest upside guys you can, not guys that are MLB ready with lower upsides or bounce back candidates that have already reached and struggled in the majors. I've said from the beginning that people are misreading the deadline and mislabeling that as the start of a rebuild. And nothing they've done since has changed my view. This may not be a flashing billboard sized sign of what they're doing, but I don't think it's nothing either. Dobnak's inclusion meant something and so does this trade. The payroll is absolutely a concern to where every couple mil matters and they brought Jackson in because they plan to have him backup Jeffers as they try to compete in 2026. I just don't think you trade for a guy with as little track record as him if you're considering having him be a vital role in a rebuild. If you want a guy who can lead a young staff through the ups and downs of a rebuild I just don't believe you're looking at Alex Jackson and saying "this is our guy."

Rortvedt wasn't available at the minimum, he's just cheaper than Jackson and didn't require a trade. I don't think Eeles is some super likely MLB piece, but why trade any possible MLB player with 6 years of control when you can sign or claim a Jackson level catcher at any point for 1 to 2 mil? Or, as others are suggesting, if it's true that this is a full rebuild and they're looking at dumping not only Jeffers' salary but also the salaries of a starting pitcher or 2 they shouldn't be worried about spending 4 mil on whatever glove only FA catchers they want. Making the trades people are suggesting means they're dropping the payroll down to the 70 mil range. I can't imagine even the Pohlads would be so cheap as to say "you need to trade for Alex Jackson because we need to make sure we don't touch 80 mil with the payroll after trading the rest of the controllable vets." This isn't the end of the world, and value wise it's a fine trade. But I think it very much suggests they aren't truly rebuilding and really aren't looking to move anymore MLB pieces for prospects. I believe Falvey is telling the truth when he says he wants to build around the pieces they have. And it makes sense since there's only so many bad seasons he can survive, even with the Pohlads in charge. He has to be nervous about job security for a true rebuild. I think the Twins are trying to win this year and I think that's why they traded for Alex Jackson instead of claiming Rortvedt or signing any random glove only catcher. And they aren't going to try to compete without Jeffers. It's why I think this trade is a sign Jeffers is staying.

What suggests they're going to do that? And, if that's the plan, why trade for Jackson? Again, they don't need to think highly of Rortvedt to understand that trading a controllable asset for Jackson is a worse plan than claiming Rortvedt if they have no intention of competing in 2026 and are going to trade Jeffers and 2 starting pitchers by the deadline. And I find it very hard to believe that they don't think highly of Rortvedt's glove. Which is all they should care about if they're truly rebuilding. They didn't get Jackson for his long-term upside with the bat. You seem convinced this is a rebuild. I've been saying since the deadline that it doesn't look like one to me. They traded expiring deals and bullpen pieces while keeping every position player and starter with control. That isn't how you rebuild. I will take the under on 3 of the combination of Jeffers, Ryan, Lopez, and Ober being traded by August 1st, 2026.

I didn't say it was a good plan. In fact, I've been saying for months that I hate the plan. But bullpens are incredibly volatile and is the part of the team most teams feel is easiest to rebuild while also carrying excess value at the deadline. If this was a true rebuild, they'd trade Jeffers this offseason, at least 1 of the starters this offseason, and at least 1 more by the deadline. I don't think they'll do any of that. Because I think Falvey means it when he says he's trying to build around the pieces here, including Lopez, Ryan, Jeffers, and Buxton. That is not a rebuild. That is trying to win now and in the future. And I think it's a terrible plan. That second sentence doesn't answer the real question. Why trade controllable assets to fill roles on a tanking/rebuilding team? Who cares about substance when you're not trying to win? I don't know why you guys continue to delete out the vast majority of my posts when you respond. I have mentioned Ben Rortvedt 4 times now. That is the move you make if you're rebuilding. You claim a cheaper, younger player without trading any asset, no matter how unlikely it is that the traded asset is a useful piece in the future. There is a whole free agent market full of catchers in the Alex Jackson/Ben Rortvedt tier of players. Go sign any of them without trading a controllable piece. The question wasn't "why add" it was "why trade." There's a massive difference. You can't have it both ways. You can't suggest it's clearly a rebuild and then suggest they should be trading for "substance" for 2026. That isn't how a rebuild works. A true rebuild doesn't care 1 gosh darn bit about the 2026 results. It gets rid of every valuable short-term piece while adding as many possible long-term pieces as possible. You don't trade the possible long-term pieces (no matter how likely they are to be real pieces) for the short-term piece because you don't care about the short term. You don't trade for guys, you sign dumpster dive players.

I legitimately don't understand what you're arguing anymore. I stated that I think this trade is a sign they have no intention of trading Jeffers. You said you didn't understand why it suggested that so I answered you. You added that trading Jeffers would mean they're trading Lopez, Ryan, and possibly Buxton so I expanded on the idea and said this trade makes even less sense if they're trading all those guys. This is now the 3rd time I've mentioned claiming Rortvedt if their plan was to just have 2 guys who can catch the ball and help the pitchers. Cardenas is one and Rortvedt is another. That's 2 by my count. If they were planning on trading Jeffers because they've actually gone with a full rebuild plan, that is by far the more likely route they'd have gone, and it's the smarter route for that situation. That is why my answer to your question of why this trade suggests they aren't trading Jeffers is because it doesn't make sense to trade for Alex freaking Jackson and then trade Jeffers. I think you're going to get your hope. It's been my belief the entire time that they plan to try to compete this year. I just don't think it's a good idea. I think all they're going to do is make the needed rebuild worse and slower.

I understand someone needs to sit behind the plate, it's why I said they'd have claimed Rortvedt if that was the plan. You don't give up control years when you're rebuilding. I didn't write Gasper in my post for a reason. They have legitimate catchers on the roster already. People want them to trade for a young, MLB-ready one if they trade all those guys. Alex Jackson doesn't fit into that strategy. You don't trade for 30-year-old, 3 years of control Alex Jackson if you're truly rebuilding. You just don't. You claim the similar, younger, cheaper player off waivers and pair him with young guys like Cardenas after maybe starting the year with Pereda. But you don't give up guys, no matter how low they are on the prospect ranking, with 6 years of control for a guy with 3 years of control if you're planning to trade your 3 best players and your starting catcher. You asked why I thought it suggested they weren't moving Jeffers. This is why. If all they care about is putting 2 guys behind the plate who can help pitchers, Alex Jackson isn't the move. Alex Jackson is the move if you're keeping Jeffers and just need a backup you think is better than in house guys which matters because you're trying to win MLB games in 2026.

Sure, but I don't think that's the plan in the least. I have said since the trade deadline that I don't think this is a rebuild. I think they legitimately plan to try to compete this year. And this trade does nothing to suggest anything else to me. And if they're trading all those guys and truly doing a rebuild then why trade for anyone? Eeles is very unlikely to be a useful big leaguer, but if you're going all in on a rebuild you keep all your prospects. You don't risk losing anyone with 6 years of control for a guy with 3 because the 6 is more important than the backup catcher in a tanked season. If all they're trying to do is fill 2 roles with guys who can catch, they'd have claimed Rortvedt for cheaper and run with Cardenas, Pereda, or whoever else. You don't trade away controlled assets to fill any need whatsoever if you're trading Jeffers, Ryan, Lopez, and possibly Buxton.

Backup catcher or tandem catcher? I agree with labeling Jackson a "backup catcher." But the Twins don't do "backup catcher" if they think the catchers are at all comparable. They do "tandem catchers." Jackson has never caught even 60 games in the bigs in a single season. That's a backup catcher role. If they view him as his entire big league career suggests they should, they see him as a backup. And if that's the case, I don't expect Jeffers is going anywhere before the season. Unless anyone here thinks they're bringing in somebody of Jeffers' quality to replace him. I find that hard to believe. And if they do as many want and bring in a young catcher, I find it even harder to believe they'd use Jackson as a true backup and put Ford, or whoever, as a true "starting catcher." That's why I think it suggests they aren't looking to trade Jeffers. They brought in a guy who has no business being a tandem catcher on opening day. And I'd think you only do that if you're planning on having Ryan Jeffers here to be the main catcher.

Judging the trade from just a pure value perspective, it makes sense. Eeles isn't likely a major league player, even if he does get a stint or 2 eventually. He's not some major piece being moved. But if this is all you're looking for in a backup catcher, why not just claim Rortvedt and be done with it? Younger (slightly) and cheaper (slightly) and didn't have to give up any other asset. Is the MLB team better today than yesterday? Maybe. By an ever so slight margin. What's the point of that? That's my question. What is the goal with this deal? It's not for long-term improvement. It suggests heavily, in my opinion, that they plan to keep Jeffers and either try to deal him at the deadline or just let him walk for absolutely nothing after the season. What's the goal with that? The Twins trying to live in both worlds feels like such a massive mistake. Trying to win now instead of diving headfirst into a rebuild has been my fear since the deadline. Pick a route and go all in on it. Continuing this "if this is the year player x and y and z and 1 and 2 and 3 and * and ^ and ! all finally figure it out, we're going to be great!" feels like such an awful plan. It's what they've been running with for years and it's why they continue to struggle. Go get as many high upside prospects with years and years of control as you can and hope a handful hit. There isn't enough talent on this team. I don't get the point of this trade.

I'll be pretty surprised if Larnach isn't non-tendered today. I'd guess they've been trying to trade him up until now but there are no takers. Much like Eddie Rosario a few years back. Teams don't give up players to bring in guys who aren't worth their arb salary. They try to sign them after they're non-tendered and sign someone else if they don't get that guy because they're a dime a dozen. This entire discussion is a microcosm of the Twins organization right now. If the Twins were talking about bringing in a guy with no defense, no base running, and only a little above average against righties as a strict platoon DH type people here wouldn't be excited, and they certainly wouldn't be calling for the team to be trading for that guy. The Twins have just been so bad offensively that people have convinced themselves that Larnach is worth something because he was so important to this awful offense. Platoon DHs that should be hitting in the 6-9 holes against only righties are not vital pieces nor worth 4-5 mil. The Twins absolutely need better base running and defense, but this conversation just shows exactly why offense is still, by far, the number 1 need of the Minnesota Twins. Trevor Larnach getting nearly all of his PAs in the top 4 spots in the lineup is such a great example of how bad this lineup is. Same with Kepler before him. These guys are vital to Twins lineups while being guys who wouldn't hit in the top 5 or 6 of playoff lineups. The Twins need bats. Legit bats. So many bats.

Leody Taveras came up as a guy who could go get it in CF. I don't know what he's like these days (I don't watch a lot of Leody highlights) so I'm not sure what his CF prospects are now, but I'd guess his bat is the far bigger concern. I don't really understand this trade. It's very interesting. Feels like Baltimore is starting to really regret their refusal to move prospects for MLB pieces the last few years and now they're trying to be more aggressive. Possibly because Elias is feeling some heat.

I'm not defending any of this. I'm not saying it's good. They're an incredibly poorly run team and business. All I've been saying is that the Pohlads should bare some blame and it isn't 100% Falvey. He deserves blame too. They all do. I also said they should be able to do things no matter what the budget is. But they also don't have many, if any, big moves to make at this point when they don't have the big guns on the market. They can want to trade Ryan or Lopez or whoever today, but they need somebody willing to pay the needed price. I don't know what action people expect to see at this point. Unless anyone legitimately thought they were signing Naylor. Nothing else is happening.

Certainly a possibility. I wouldn't rule that out at all. My guess is that the limited partners swing the payroll relatively significantly. But I wouldn't rule out any nonsense from this org.

Because this has been a super poorly run company for a long time. And, apparently, they won't make any decisions until the minority partners are approved.

I think he should be looking at trading Ryan and Pablo no matter where the payroll possibilities are, unless one of the options is 130+ and he's calling Bo Bichette and Pete Alonso every day. And I don't know if he's actively calling on either of those guys. My guess would be that he's not in the best position to get max value out of them at this point of the offseason, though. All the other teams have multiple options for filling their rotation holes. I'm not blowing my prospect gun powder on Lopez or Ryan if Skubal is still a possibility. Sonny Gray, Mackenzie Gore, Sandy Alcantara, Edward Cabrera, Kodai Senga, Freddy Peralta, and probably more are rumored to be available. Framber Valdez, Ranger Suarez, Dylan Cease, Zac Gallen, Michael King, and Tatsuya Imai all available for just money. I'm not at all suggesting Falvey shouldn't or couldn't be doing things. He absolutely should be actively working to improve this roster. But where the budget falls changes his options significantly and other teams need to be willing to actually make deals for Twins players now. And I don't think many are at this point.

I don't think anyone is saying Falvey has no blame. There are hundreds (thousands?) of calls for his firing on this site every single day. But Owner is higher than President in every company I know of. I think some of us are just saying that there is a reasonable possibility that he truly doesn't know where the budget will come in and that that is on the Pohlads which takes Falvey from 100% responsible to something lower. Not 0, but not 100. Falvey should absolutely have plans in place for a 70 mil payroll, 100ish, and $130 million payroll. He should have parts of those plans that overlap that he should be moving on. But the difference in what he can do between those levels of payroll are massive. And this current era Pohlads have done nothing if not confirm time and time again that they have no idea what they're doing when it comes to running an MLB team and it is very possible that they have a gap in payroll possibilities that are 10s of millions of dollars. That absolutely effects how Falvey can do his job on the baseball side.

Because Falvey keeps saying he doesn't know. Repeatedly. Every time it comes up. Which isn't something he's ever denied to this degree before. I certainly wouldn't advocate blindly believing Falvey. But it's a change in how he's spoken about the budget for his entire tenure. He's never denied knowing what it is to this extent. They have limited partners that MLB still hasn't approved despite it being beyond the normal time it takes. There is a very real chance that he doesn't know what the budget is because the Pohlads don't know what the budget is because they don't know if they'll get bailed out of their debt or not. Is it 100% certain he doesn't know? Of course not. But it isn't 0% either.

Are the Twins going to immediately extend Rutschman? If not, then I don't think this makes much sense. It puts them in the same position with him as they're in with the pitchers now. They're not going to be competitive in 2026 and then you're down to 1 year of team control on him in a season where you're not likely a true competitor and you don't want to then lose him for just a comp pick. Trading those pitchers is about getting talent that better aligns with their window in terms of team control. Adley doesn't accomplish that goal unless they're going to extend him immediately. Trading Lopez or Ryan for the chance to see if Adley is toast or can bounce back and not having control of him when you're most likely to be competitive doesn't seem ideal.

There's talk of the M's possibly being willing to move Castillo. If that's the case, they could try to acquire the position player talent they want from that trade while acquiring an arm to replace him in the rotation from MN for Ford. I'd think that's the best matchup these 2 teams have for a trade scenario. The Twins shouldn't be trading any of their prospects. Trying to guess which ones will succeed and which ones won't is a fool's errand. Prospects are a numbers game. Keep them all while adding Ford to the bunch. Wallner may be of interest to Seattle in the DH spot depending on what they think about Canzone's breakout and Raley's ability to bounce back at age 31. But I'd think Ryan or Lopez replacing Castillo in their rotation is probably the best chance to get Ford.

I said it after the deadline and was kind of hoping I was wrong (like I often am), but this feels exactly like trying to live in both worlds. They're trying to be competitive in 2026 and beyond. Not by going out and adding real pieces, but by just having such a massive misread on the talent in their clubhouse. And because they think there's more talent than there is they won't make the moves necessary to give themselves a real shot at any point. I don't know if this is bad business or bad baseball decision making. I don't know if it's Falvey and the FO legitimately thinking they can be competitive next year without massive changes or if it's Falvey and the business department (Pohlads) thinking they'll be competitive enough to draw fans and that they haven't completely burned the 2026 bridge. Maybe a combination of both. But, either way, it's an awful plan. Which, unfortunately, is becoming all too common on both the baseball and business sides these days.

I think Lewis described himself well with the quote about having a bit of a wide receiver's attitude. He's turned into quite the diva. I've defended him and his comments a lot on these boards. He never said he didn't slump, he said he didn't do the slump mentality. He never refused to play 2B, he just said he wasn't as comfortable there so would prefer not to. But it's all piling up too much. The comments about not being willing to make adjustments in season because it'll cost him in arbitration are probably thoughts lots of players have, but when you're OPSing in the .630 range and your team is failing because you were supposed to be an important part of the offense and are completely failing it comes across horribly. Complaining about feeling like you aren't important when you're given every opportunity and are unquestionably not a young guy on a short leash comes across as being completely out of touch with the situation. I don't know what the conversations behind closed doors were like. I don't know what lead him to feel like he wasn't important. But based on the playing time he was given compared to his performance it doesn't look good from the outside. I hope he does well, and I still think he has incredible talent. But his comments have painted him in a different light for me. Rocco went and met him in person last offseason, too. Lewis had nice things to say about that meeting as well. Is he going to pout if he struggles for a month and Shelton lowers his playing time in favor of someone else? He's been through a lot. He handled his injuries as well as anyone could ask. I always say there's no reason to be honest with the media/fans because there's very little good that can come of it. This is an example. He's coming across more and more as an incredibly selfish diva. Every pro athlete has an ego to some extent. Much of coaching/managing at the professional level in any sport is managing those egos. Lewis has great talent, but he hasn't earned this diva attitude. This is a put up or shut up year for him. I'm quite surprised Boras hasn't told him, or at least not convinced him, to just shut up and play at this point.

If the Twins were happy with what the 3 or 4 innings every 4 days experiment looked like, I would like to see them implement that with a few guys in the MLB pen this year. Festa, Prielipp, Raya, Morris, etc. Whether Matthews, Abel, and/or Bradley are involved in that as well would depend on whether or not Ryan and Lopez are still in the rotation. If your opening day rotation is Ryan, Lopez, Ober, SWR, Matthews (for example) then you can add Abel and Bradley to the every 4 day group or have them in AAA as depth depending on how easy it is to switch from a 3 day rest cycle to a 4 day rest cycle when injuries open spots in the rotation. If Lopez and/or Ryan are moved that obviously opens spots in the rotation for those 2. I think this plan keeps those young guys stretched out and allows them to get experience working through multiple innings at the major league level while also not making them go through the lineup numerous times. If they can succeed with that it gives them a nice stepping stone to rotation spots in the future. If they struggle they get moved down to 1 inning guys to see if they can do that better. It also gives them a need for fewer 1 inning relievers. If you have 3 (as an example) guys covering 3 or 4 innings every 4 days you are able to give your 5 one inning guys more rest. It'd be a pretty sizable change in how a team is managed and it'd take Shelton buying in and also being willing to let those guys finish games instead of always going to 1 inning pen arms. If Lopez goes 6 and it's a day that Festa is scheduled to do his bulk pitching, is Shelton willing to let Festa go all 3 instead of pulling him for a 1 inning guy in the 9th? There may be some situations where it makes sense; like if the 1 inning guys are all very well rested and it's a 1 run game in the 9th and Festa has been a little wobbly in his first 2 innings. But if he's cruising and the pen isn't super rested, would Shelton let him role for the 9th and give the pen an entire night off? My plan for 15 game chunk: Game 1- Lopez backed by 1 inning guys Game 2- Ryan backed by bulk guy1 Game 3- Ober backed by bulk guy2 Game 4- SWR backed by bulk guy3 Game 5- Zebby backed by 1 inning guys Game 6- Lopez backed by bulk guy1 Game 7- Ryan backed by bulk guy2 Game 8- Ober backed by bulk guy3 Game 9- SWR backed by 1 inning guys Game 10- Zebby backed by bulk guy1 Game 11- Lopez backed by bulk guy2 Game 12- Ryan backed by bulk guy3 Game 13- Ober backed by 1 inning guys Game 14- SWR backed by bulk guy1 Game 15- Zebby backed by bulk guy2 I don't think the Twins have a great chance to compete in 2026 so I'd take the season to experiment with this. The Twins have a lot of young starting pitching prospects. Some are going to be good enough to be legit starters and some won't. This gives them the chance to get all those arms a lot of innings in a season where I don't think the roster will be good enough to truly compete. Lopez, Ryan, and Ober get to go as long as they can in games so there'll be some days where the "bulk guy" doesn't get 3 or 4 because Lopez went 7 or 8 (as an example). That's fine. Little extra built in rest for that arm. Off days obviously make it so there'll be days where "bulk guy1" is supposed to pitch but there is no game and you have to make a decision on what that looks like from a prep perspective for that pitcher (when they do their bullpens, etc.) but teams already have to do that with starters so it shouldn't be a problem. I just think 2026 provides a unique opportunity to try this since they have so many young starters they want to learn about and it's a kind of "resetting" season for them as they work towards the future. And I'd bet it's easier to sell Festa (as an example) on a move to the "pen" if he's still getting bulk innings.

Oh, I'm sure they'd trade him, but Larnach and Gasper aren't what they'd be looking for in return. The Phillies would just wait for Larnach to be non-tendered and throw him 3 mil and he'd be in their outfield if they wanted him. Gasper does nothing for them. Neither does Julien. I'm all for getting something for any of those guys, but I don't see any chance that it's a legit MLB player who's actually better than any of them. It would be the most shocking move of any team this offseason.