EGFTShaw

That "I Demand A Trade" BS in the NBA is crap. You signed the contract, suck it up buttercup. Unless there is some item in their CBA that the teams received as compensation for having to try and trade someone. Send him to the G-League.

Thinking outside the box as I have never been inside a box. LOL Could this contract work, not asking if the Twins or anyone would do it but continuing with the theme is this legal. C4: 8yrs/$265M with a $1M bonus for every WAR accumulate during the year. C4 is good for about 4-5 WAR per year. Average year his compensation would be $33.125M + $4-5M in bonuses. If he does a HUGE year, then more power to him as team and C4 benefit. I initially thought of it as 8yrs/$250M with bonuses. Regardless the concept is the same.

Thanks! NBA version I never understood, was the Nets allowing the Warriors to get value back for Durant. I mean the Warriors have been at the top of the heap. Great explanation tho.

I am of the opinion, even if it's Diaz, not going beyond 2 years with a RP when talking Big Bucks.

Maybe I am Old School, I am Old so... It should be a case-by-case plan, I can't help but feel you need 1 (minimum) and probably 2 pitchers who have quality starts of 6+ innings. We also need that one pitcher who can shut down the opposition and give the team a chance to get back on the winning streak. The last part of the season, it looked like Ryan did better when Rocco let him go more than 4.7 innings. Speaking of pitching coaches, how can a college team out bid a professional team for a pitching coach???

I'm with Doc here, " I think not spending huge on your pen is a smart idea". I think we have a good core for the BP. The Mets kept the best one off the market, but they will end up paying for the length of that contract in the end. I kind of hope not, because I love his entrance. :) That said, I am not sure there is anyone out there I would spend money on right now. You are not going to get an AWESOME RP for $3-5M. AND, I can't see spending more than that unless it was a two-year deal for one of the best. I think, to quote The Who, "The Kids Are Alright".

I started out thinking I like this, but then got to Rodon. First, we aren't getting him for $21M. Not because he deserves more, but as lefty with 2 back-to-back really good years there will be a bidding contest. Also, a $15-$20M+ starting pitcher normally is not going to be the Shut Down Ace you are looking for in a team with pitching lined up from #2 on down. I'd rather see DeGromm than Rodon. I think my offseason chart had us at around $160M. A 3-year/$120M deal for DeGromm (if it goes bad, you're not burdened with too many extra years hanging around your neck. A $40M/year deal for C4. I looked at a similar SS in size and age as C4 and looked at results over the next 10 years. There is a very good comparison to be made with C4 and Cal Ripken, Jr. Leadership, size, BA, WAR leading up to their age 28 season, etc... I do like the idea of Trey Mancini. Never thought of him as a RH OF option. Also, Ryan is my #2 with everyone else sliding down a slot and the #5 is between Ober/Maeda with the edge going to Ober to start the season. Typically, it is year 2 after the TJ that a pitcher returns to complete form.

Too funny...LOL

NBA still does. Never quite understood that tho.

One price and we can interchange all of them.

Good question. I think, this is just IMHO, that we have swung a little too far in yanking the SPs simply after 2 times through the order. It is a good point to take into account, but it shouldn't be automatic. Twins/Rocco had some very "interesting" pitching issues to deal with this year, so I am not solely putting any blame here on them. But Duran so far has proved himself to be unique. So, let's take a look at what he can do and how do we maximize his potential regardless of SP or RP position. But your point about how pitching has changed definitely needs to be in the equation.

Don't disagree he could easily be one of the top 5 relievers for the next ten years. But as a team, you need to do your due diligence. We don't have a guy with this kind of stuff as a SP, it has to be at least looked at. I'd be happy if they left him as a RP but I would also be happy and understand if they tried him as a starter. It is not going to change overnight that is for sure. 16 innings in 2021 due to an elbow strain. RP innings this year. It would be quite a leap to SP in 2023.

You need a longer time frame. Need to balance of length, value and worth. I thought 7yrs $275M and front loaded if possible.

I think it has to be explored. With his stuff I believe you are not doing your due diligence if you don't explore it. Fall back is you have ONE hell of a reliever.

Going Paul Bunyon Big (dreaming) bec I don't want to be a AAAA Team C4 7yrs $275M (front load if possible) DeGrom 3yrs $120M (risk but only guy I know that can really be a SHUT done that is available. Not sold on Rodon even though I like him) Trade Kepler and Urshela. Jose "Read my Rights" Miranda gets 3rd base. Matt "Up Against The" Wallner gets RF Backup C goes to Andrew Bechtold just because I am NOT sold on any options, I can see available, and he can play 3rd base. Maeda takes the SP and Ober drops to RP. Final 2 RP are Henrique and Winder. Caveats: 1) Does not take into account injuries, but assumes all players listed will be 100% healthy for Spring Training. 2) I completely understand the Twins, (and owners), have NEVER even contemplated this before. 3) I realize that the money spent on C4 and DeGrom could easily be spread amongst loads of other average players, but I do NOT want and team full of average players. I want players who want to be called on when the team needs them. 4) Assume as well that, the contracts of C4 and DeGrom could possibly be traded if things go south. If the Rangers could trade A-Rod (and his PEDs) then Twins can trade C4. Yes, it may mean paying a portion of the salary. I asked a poster yesterday for options and so I feel I should go out on the Limb and risk getting roasted as well LOL C: Ryan Jeffers ($0.70M) 1B: Luis Arraez ($4.50M) 2B: Jorge Polanco ($7.50M) 3B: Jose Miranda ($0.7M) SS: Carlos Correa ($40M) LF: Alex Kirilloff ($0.70M) CF: Byron Buxton ($15.00M) RF: Matt Wallner ($0.7M) DH: Jose Miranda ($0.70M) 4th OF: Kyle Garlick ($0.70M) Utility: Nick Gordon ($0.70M) Utility: Gilberto Celestino ($0.70M) Backup C: Andrew Bechtold ($0.7M) SP1: Jacob DeGrom ($40M) SP2: Sonny Gray ($12M) SP3: Tyler Mahle ($8M) SP4: Joe Ryan ($0.70M) SP5: Kenta Maeda ($9M) RP: Jhoan Duran ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Lopez ($3.00M) RP: Griffin Jax ($0.70M) RP: Jorge Alcala ($1.0M) RP: Caleb Thielbar ($2.00M) RP: Bailey Ober ($0.7M) RP: Josh Winder ($0.70M) RP: Ronnie Henriquez ($0.70M) Payroll is 8.20% over budget

So only one or two Hamm's beers to get loose data to give it up versus respectable data which might take a 6-pack... LOL

my bad, but I missed Rodon/Contreras note. I would take C4 over those two if only because WC I don't believe is worth the $$s and Rodon vs C4 one to one falls on the C4 side.

Just not sure where that elsewhere will be? Do not disagree with the idea or concept, but there are things that weigh inC4's favor. 1) We have an experience with him as a player, leader and club house presence. It went well unlike how a former 3rd baseman who came to play but ruffled a lot of teammates and there was a relief when he was dealt. 2) Taking a stab at the elsewhere aspect...my guess is pitching? If we could get a Bonafide Ace, a shutdown guy who stop losing streaks, then I am open. Other than that, I am not sure what else is going to really help us more than C4. Open to hear any suggestions. C4 checks all the boxes that I want in a player, would also signify that the Twins are serious players from time to time, except as Doc mentioned someone could blow us out of the water. I will even go shorter term higher AV if it gets the job done. Then you're not paying for the potential downside years. Some players age very well, Cruz, NRyan, Mad Max, Verlander but most do not. I am not being a NYY fan here, (still my Evil Empire), just would love to see some options so avid teleworking GM I can think about it.

>>Regardless, there’s no way that the Twins can be more injury-plagued in 2023, right? You Bastard, You Killed Kenny. Dear god I hope not.

Here's an off the wall thought, based on a comment above about our young players. Royce could move to RF to replace Kepler and fill in for the days off in CF for Buxton. An outfield of Buxton, Royce, AK, Wallner and Gordon sounds pretty nice to me. Gordon and Royce can play infield positions as well. Wallner/AK/Buxton can all take turns at DH. Infield of C4, Miranda, Arraez, Polanco(he alternates years between VeryGood/Hurt so next year is a VG year) Now about the pitching... ?

And at $170M it would not be in the Top 5 in spending as long as you have the Dodgers, Yanks and Mets as well as usually the Cubs, RSox and the way the GM in SD is going, the Padres. May slip out of the Top 10 in payroll in a year or two.

Baseball is weird. But I love constructing teams and have been a Twins fans since days of TonyO, then Killer and Carew. But Tony was my favorite until he hurt his knees which given my age only a couple of seasons. But also, Cesar "Go Ahead and Try to Miss Me with A Pitch" Tovar. Kaat, Bert's Curve and then it goes downhill until 1987 and then again 1991. This is a once in a lifetime, for the Twins, to do something really special. Good young players coming up to feed and continue on. Free and clear as you can get payroll. If Texas can dump A-Rod, (I know they ate 1/2 of the contract), the Twins can dump any Big Signing they make. I want C4 back and willing to pay for it. I get nervous about Rodon, but he has proven it for 2 years now and is Left-Handed. The extra people we to fill spots, along with anyone we sign, can always be traded to minimize your losses OR to add additional pieces. I like Kepler, but unless he actively works to improve his batting and the coaches work on it too, then trade the Gold Glove-ish outfielder and get some pieces back. Same with others. I am all in favor of dialog, but Doc makes a good case. Go Paul Bunyon Big or Go Back to being a AAAA team.

What about Bobby Bonilla's contract with the Mets. Free ESPN publicity each July

This is a baseball version of my hockey trades. Player XX, (in my case the Capitals play by play guy) for a bucket of hockey pucks...maybe even frozen ones... LOL

I am running from the Padres as fast a healthy Byron Buxton chasing down a deep fly ball can... LOL I am not sold on Paddock. Also, not sure who got the worst end of that deal. LOL