Dman

Yeah those lists are so subjective I think those guys lose sight of things. I would put Mirnada's numbers up against anyone they have in their top 50 and say they look like idiots. He is at the highest level in the Minors and likely out OPS'ing most all of that list. Those guys like who they like just like we do.

Has Sabato finally found his stroke? His eye at the plate is good so if he can just but the strike outs down to the mid 25% level he should be OK. He has a had a very tough start would nice to see him go on a tear so we can cheer him on again. Nice to see the new guy continue to hit and hit in clutch situations. Martin is as advertised. Wichita is starting to have quite the lineup with almost everyone is around the 800 OPS mark. Pretty much every guy and punch one out and everyone is a tough out right now. If they get a bit better pitching they could be unstoppable.

I don't know what to do with Rogers but you would likely be selling low with him coming off of injury so probably better off keeping him at least until the deadline next year. If the Twins really do want to compete next year they should try to come to a better compromise on the incentives ceiling for Buxton. He could be a big part of this teams success if they can get him signed. He is the only true 5 tool player they have if he can stay healthy. I can go either way with Donaldson but if the Twins are putting in money to get rid of him I think they should keep him. He is one of the few players on this team with an 800 OPS and even if he does get injured for long periods of time the Twins have Miranda to fill in as needed. If someone took on his contract and the Twins invested all that money into a top tier shortstop then that is a trade I could get on board with. Until we better understand our outfield situation I can't see trading Max. I have hyped him on potential since 2019 and he hasn't quite gotten there yet but with Kirilloff likely at 1st base and Larnach not the greatest right fielder it seems a bit early\premature to start talking about trading Max. I think the Twins keep all those guys next year and hopefully they invest what money they have into pitching. 2022 looks like a wild card year right now with the pitching so up in the air but I don't think I would trade any of these guys if they truly want to compete next year.

I agree with you. They have about 10 guys that they have drafted or traded for that have a chance to be mid rotation starter types (i.e. throw hard enough, Have above average secondary's, Have had minor league success). If they can't get that pitching to work at the MLB level time to find guys with a better idea how to accomplish that goal. Once they have two or three solid young pitchers they should be set for another 3 to 4 year window and if they keep the pitching pipeline going maybe sustainable good to great seasons. That young pitching needs to show up though. If it doesn't the whole thing falls apart. Just like we are now talking about trying to get some the of best FA starting pitchers the Twins never pull off those deals. They need to develop it and or trade for it. They won't buy it by outbidding other teams. No idea if Ryan, Winder and Balazovich are up to the challenge next year but they seem like the most ready for 2022. Hoping Ober and Jax can also be serviceable and maybe Dobnak can return to his better self. They have young pitching options they just need to work out.

All 5 look like good possibilities but there will be steep competition to sign them so I doubt the Twins land one of them unless the price or years are in reach of what they deem acceptable. I would look at tier 2 pitchers being more realistic but I guess you never know. Still a fun list to dream on.

I think the Twins wanted an Escobar like return to let Pineda leave and no team wanted to pay that for a rental that might not be back. There is no guarantee they can or will re-sign Pineda but I have to believe that is the plan otherwise they would have let him go for a bucket of balls. No way do they want to pay his remaining salary if they don't want him back next year. That just wouldn't make sense especially for the money conscious Twins. If he pitches well this next month I would bet they approach him with an extension and he signs. If he performs poorly then maybe they look at other pitchers in Free agency and see if they get something better for Pineda money. He still needs to perform for the Twins to want him back. The Twins were only trading players for overpays and apparently no one wanted to overpay for Pineda so they didn't get a deal done. If I were them I would have likely done the same thing.

If this exercise came down to strictly the best bat Miranda would be my choice hands down and his OPS supports that. However, Miranda is limited defensively to likely 3rd and 2nd maybe left field. I don't know a ton about Martin other than he is a highly ranked prospect with a good eye at the plate and good hit tool. He hasn't hit for power yet and isn't likely to hit for power anytime soon. From what I read his arm isn't that great at short leaving him at 2nd is his best position and he is fast enough to play center but with a weaker arm not an ideal fit. Lewis has far an away the best defensive upside as he can play all outfield positions and infield positions. He has an arm that plays at short and center and Buxton type speed for center if needed. His hit tool is the only thing that is suspect at this point. He made adjustments late in 2019 that appeared to help but without seeing him play recently hard to say just where he is at with the bat. Given the info I have I still think Lewis should be number one until he proves he can't hit close to the other two guys. Miranda has the best bat and might be able to play a good third base I just don't know a ton about his defense. I would put him second right now as OPS rules and he has power. Once I know more about Martin maybe I will have him higher but what I see right now I put him third on my list but since he does have some speed etc he could be number 1 or 2 as well just depends on what you value most. I don't know who to pick for pitcher. Winder has probably been the most consistent and he has pitched the whole year so far. Balazovich when on looks like he might have slightly better stuff. Duran has the splinker but his results haven't been elite to this point but more slightly better than average. Don't know much about Ryan reading he doesn't have great secondary's gives me pause. SWR has control problems and backed up at AA. I think you could make a case for any of them but I still like Balazovich best with Winder next. I know Canterino has been uber dominant but it is hard to judge when you don't see guys play and Canterino hasn't pitched much at the higher levels. They all seem pretty close to me though and I could make a case for any of them right now Jordan would be my pick but that could easily change.

Kind of tough seeing no Sands, Canterino, Duran, Winder etc. in these lists but congrats to the guys who made it. Louie has been outstanding from day one. His current dominant stretch just adds to the legend at this point. Not sure how he is doing it with mainly just the fastball and some control issues at least to start the season. Still he has the best pitching line in the system. Congrats well deserved recognition. Been pretty surprised by Watson as I thought he might be done. I think a reliever role suits him best and we could really use lefties so would be nice if he can be dominant in short bursts. Had already asked Seth about Rozek because of the great success he has had and was stunned he didn't have a fastball in the 90's. Not sure if he can continue to make his stuff work all the way up but he sure pitched well this month and caught my attention. Gross is another guy who exceeded my expectations and I would like to see him move up to AA and see if he can handle some of the best hitters in the minors. He has been too good to keep at High A.

I don't know what you know about Ober but he has never had a season in MiLB where he hasn't been injured and missed time. In 2019 he stated he felt horrible for days after starting. I don't think the Twins thought he would be starting this early this year and likely already had a plan to limit his innings and try to help him to work on ways to get past the soreness he experiences and keep him healthy. I presume they feel pushing his pitch count closer to 100 is counterproductive at this point. I have no idea if it makes sense or not but so far he hasn't missed time so looks like the approach is working so far.

I am not sure what to think. Likely some truth to both sides. In the recent past the Twins seemed to have some success getting a little more out of relievers they picked up from the garbage pile and made them better thinking Harper and Wisler. It seemed like maybe they helped Maeda and Pineda but they were always pretty good pitchers before they came over. Hill and Baily didn't look that great with us granted coming back from injury and obviously Colome, Happ and Shoemaker only got worse once with the Twins. It certainly doesn't seem like this is the place to become a better pitcher at the MLB level. At least looking at the latest data that I can tell. Yeah Berrios was home grown and several of my examples are guys that are past their prime and likely due for regression but still the fact remains they didn't squeeze anything extra out of them and most guys got worse not better. I don't think this is just a Twins issue though as lot's of players stats fluctuate year to year often due to injury of just plain getting older and less effective. However, teams that do a better job like Tampa end up in better positions. Even Tampa can't fix every guy that comes through their system but they seem better than maybe any other team in the league at getting the most out of guys that come through IMO. I do still feel like the Twins have improved their pitching development in the minors. You look at other teams affiliates and we are generally getting better pitching out of our teams. Pitching talent is bubbling up to AA and AAA whether it tranlates to MLB is another story but it looks good to this point to me. Obviously the Twins wanted Shoemaker to do things he wasn't comfortable doing. That isn't always a bad thing as it can sometimes lead to untapped potential but trying to teach an old dog new tricks doesn't generally work out well. AAA is way different than MLB so his stats there don't mean too much to me. The one thing I did notice the few times I did watch SHoemaker on MLB gameday app is that he often would get 0-2 or 1-2 and then throw something right down the middle of the plate that generally got crushed. Saw the same behavior from Colome from time to time. I get that you have to throw strikes to get guys out but why not work the corners more when ahead like that? Anyway like I said probably truth to both sides but let's face it Shoe was never going to be a top of the line pitcher. He was always 5th starter material at best. I think it is time for both sides to move on. Glad he is pitching well and maybe he can get a gig somewhere else or maybe he can excel out of the pen hard to say. He just doesn't have anything that looks better than the young number 5's we have already to me though.

Yeah here I thought he was a patient hitter and was able to get good contact. MLB is hard I guess.

I gave them an A. They got overpays for Cruz, Berrios, and Happ. If Simmons could have hit a baseball the last two to three weeks they likely could have gotten something for him as well. Donaldson was always a long shot and they still could trade him in the offseason if they think that is the right thing to do. There was no real pressure for them to trade him at the deadline absent a good deal. I have to believe Pineda didn't get dealt for a reason. There were several teams who could have used him. I think the FO wants him back next year so if they didn't get an overpay they were not going to move him. Obviously they didn't like the offers so they didn't move him. Maeda and Pineda can anchor the rotation with a good FA signing or two they should have 5th starter covered between Ober, Jax and Ryan. Maybe Dobnak is still in there as well. Keeping Pineda gives them more stability going into the offseason. If they hadn't dealt Berrios I am guessing they would have moved Pineda. Hard for me to criticize who they didn't deal. They got overpays for most all their deals so hard to see why that wouldn't be an A. I mean getting something for Happ should technically make it an A right there. If overpays are not enough to give them an A then I don't think they are ever going to get an A because you can always come up with scenarios of what they could have done. What they did do was really good and I think it deserves an A.

I liked the Cruz and Berrios trades as I felt like the Twins got great value in those trades. To be honest I think they got great value out of the Happ and Robles trades as well. I mean just being able to get something for two under performing players shows they worked hard to make deals. I think, I think they made the right call on Pineda. If they kind of wanted Pineda back next year then keeping him was the best way to accomplish that. So the only way they were going to move him was with an overpay and apparently nobody wanted to do that. Trading just to trade doesn't always make sense and I think it sends a message to other FO's that they want value or they really will not trade said player. If the return was low then I give them credit for not making a move there. Pineda seems like he wants to sign here and has been a decent value for the Twins and keeping him will help make that happen. I am sure they tried to get rid of Simmons but the way he batted down the stretch I just don't see how a team would want such a black hole at the plate despite the good defense. I was not surprised he didn't get moved. His was a trade that I would have been happy with any return and or even as just a salary dump but I would guess the FO views that differently than I do. Still not sure not trading him is a fail as he would have been a very hard sell. The only Donaldson news involved the Mets and included Maeda. If Maeda was the key part of the deal and Mets still wanted money I would have said no way as well. Not sure what would have been coming back in prospects but I doubt it would have been great for the Twins considering they would have had to pay significant cash. Not having much for details they probably made the right decision there as well. For those that think Berrios will make it to FA I doubt that happens. Toronto has to know what it will take to sign him long term and I would bet they lock him up in the offseason. I will miss Berrios the most but I think the Twins did the right thing trading him. They have a lot of young quality pitching coming up so have to believe a couple of those guys will make it. They have room to add a good FA pitcher to replace Berrios for next year and with better years from Maeda and Pineda and likely better depth behind them I think their chance to be good to great are really pretty good.

I know Woods-Richardson has some control problems but he was lights out at AA earlier in the year. He has a four pitch mix and he is only 20 years old at AA. I don't think there is another 20 year old pitcher in AA this year besides him. The last pitcher the Twins had that was that young at AA was of course Jose Berrios. The K 9 is there and while the WHIP is concerning he is just 20 years old. Lot's of 20 year old's take time to reign in the control. He is in the top 100 for a reason and that is because he has good stuff already. I think this is a good get. The only other pitcher I liked better was the Dodgers Ryan Pepiot but he 23 and turning 24 soon. SWR has plenty of time to refine his stuff. FYI both pitcher's are currently in AA, SWR just happens to be 3 years younger.

I wouldn't worry too much about Martin's power. It is generally the last tool to develop. The Twins are really good at developing guys to hit for power as well. The most important thing early is eye at the plate and he seems to have it. A good eye will get your OBP up and forces pitchers to throw quality strikes in the zone giving better pitches to hit. This is literally his first year in Pro ball and he is holding his own at AA. How many players have done that? Maybe Swarber or Bryant? It is rare for a player to do that well at that high of a level this early. I knew he likely wouldn't be a fit at SS but he has decent speed so he should be able to play there. I just wouldn't expect great defensive numbers from him if he does play there. The Twins have lot's of infield guys that can play a variety of positions and so they can mix and match players and he will only help with that. He likely is Gordons replacement once he is ready and they will work him in as a regular from there. I honestly thought Groshans was as high as Toronto would go so didn't do much research on Martin but I think this was a really good get for the Twins.

That is a good return for Berrios. Woods Richardson is only 20 Years old and already at the AA level. Martin is hitting well at AA as well. Hope he can play shortstop as that is where we really need him but he might be Buxton insurance as well. Jays did well though as well. They essentially flipped Stroman and Martin for Berrios. A good young starter just when they needed him.

Not sure if we are better off with or without him but since we are likely to keep Taylor Rogers I could see moving Theilbar for the right price. I would want a good piece back though as he he has three year of reasonable control and while he is not dominant he is a proven solid MLB player.

Have to believe this a Kershaw insurance move or possible Lefty bullpen piece move for them. So far return is PTBNL so the return likely rests on just how well Duffey does in Dodger blue. As always a good move by Friedman. I still think he ends up with Sherzer but we will see.

Kind of hoping Dodgers or Jays are willing to significantly overpay as I like what both systems have to offer. Who ever gets Berrios is gonna be lucky though as he is a low injury risk and solid option in any rotation. I don't like losing him but am hoping the return makes me feel better. I guess we all will find out soon enough.

I was wondering, maybe wishful thinking that if the Twins did do a deal with Toronto they could try to sell Happ as a good lefty reliever. He wouldn't add any value to a deal but it would be a way to get rid of some salary and maybe gain a deep lotto ticket. If there are no takers at the deadline Yes I would get rid of him. Depending on the deadline trades they might need the 40 man room anyway hard to say how things will work out. I think Barnes, Jax, etc can cover for him and they have the two new guys that they could try out at that level in Strotman and Ryan. I think they have plenty of options to cover his innings. If they trade Berrios then they might need to keep him though because then they need to replace three starters in Berrios, Pineda and Happ. That would come pretty close to maxing out the guys we have that are currently ready depending on how the other trades work out or how you feel about pitching Winder, Balazovich and Sands at the MLB level in case the replacement get hurt.

Oops I see I missed him looking at the roster. Maybe they can move Abrams given what they currently have. His name has just been silent in talks so far so was trying to find reasons why.

I agree with you I don't see Campusano as something the Twins "need badly" and Abrams would be, With Gore having so many issues I wouldn't want to trade my sure thing starting pitcher for a guy that looks like he might be cooked. That is too much risk for me. If the Twins could work a deal around Abrams I could see that as we need a starting SS ASAP and he could be a good one. That being said I think he is the one player they won't or don't want to deal. They had no one good at second so went and got Frazier. I think that is a stop gap for them as they could put Abrams there in the next year or two and he is a player that could spell Tatis and can play center field for them if needed and cover 2nd or third. Also if Tatis is out due to injury they don't lose a beat with Abrams there. Well they probably lose something with the bat but you know what I mean. I think he is the one guy that is essentially untouchable which is why I don't see a Berrios trade with the Padres. They don't have the high quality pitching prospect's we would want and they don't have a good up the middle guy we can get beyond Abrams who they won't deal. I'd move on to LA or Toronto they both match up better IMO.

I have given Wallner a lot of grief mainly about his underlying numbers (BABIP & K rate) but he just keeps getting hits. He looks even better after coming back than he did early in the season. I think they should move him up as well. See what he can do at a higher level because to this point he has dominated this level before and after his wrist injury.

RIght now Sherzer is the key. Every team even the generally prospect stingy Rays are trying to see what it will take to land him. Sherzer gives the team who gets him a lock down starter throughout the playoffs I am guessing the return will be massive for a rental. However, the teams that miss out on him do need to switch to plan B and Berrios will be in play there. I don't know what you have been reading but every team in the west has been in on Berrios and honestly every one those teams could really use him. Berrios's greatest value is that he is going to give you solid innings and show up every fifth day to pitch. Kershaw has had arm issue's for LA and they likely won't have Bauer back. The Padres have had arm issue's in their rotation and need depth as well. The Giants haven't had many arm issues to date but Berrios could be a 4th or 5th starter and he would provide depth in case of injury down the stretch. Those three teams are in a race for wins and cannot afford to give any away or they might be out they also need to prepared for the payoffs if they do get in. They have to play each other a bunch the rest of the way so having one weak starter could mean giving that game away. Just like on the field the GM's are fierce competitors and will look to put their teams in better position to win during the season and post season. So yes I think a team like the Giants would love to get Sherzer or Berrios whether they really need them or not because it keeps them from the competition and still makes their team better.

I was pretty confident the Twins would do a deal with the Dodgers before the Sherzer news broke and Rogers developed a finger issue. Not sure what happens now for sure. I do agree it seems that Berrios gets dealt. With no discount available at all and a likely overpay to keep him from free agency if the offers are good enough I think they move him. Has to be a starter included that over time could be a mid rotation piece and likely a high upside position player to make it work so I just don't see San Diego working out but who knows. If Atlanta does become a seller that could change things as well. It is going to be a wild ride going into the deadline for us this year. I just hope they get good deals.