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Bingo! Nothing wrong with being a AAAA player. All organizations need them. In a typical AAAA fashion, Cave has one above-average tool (defense), the rest is a crap shoot of inconsistency. The reason Jake Cave stays afloat (unlike many other AAAA players) is his attitude and his hustle. You can't be a clubhouse cancer and expect to stick around. As with other organizations, if your AAAA players are getting a lot of major league time, things are typically not going well.

Remind anyone of Francisco Liriano? Look, Duran was a SP all through the minors, but not a very successful one. I do think the FO needs to consider whether he needs to be put in the rotation, but his body of work in the minors speaks volumes about his potential value as a starter. Almost all of the best relievers are failed starters. Duran has high value as a situational reliever, especially if they don't stick him in the closer role and continue to use him in high leverage situations. I would be totally fine if he stayed in his current role.

Not happening: Only 7 catchers caught 110+ games last year. 14 caught 100. That's it. The league has shifted to platoon catching to keep players healthy. No real reason to drop a payroll bomb here

In a bubble, I agree. But considering the injury risk with Buxton, along with some questions in our up-and-coming OF, the Twins 4th OF will probably play 100+ games. I am fine with Kepler in that role next year.

Personally, I am not a huge fan of long-term contracts for SP. The cost-benefit risk is so high, and the Twins are not an organization that can easily absorb dead money. Anything longer than three-four years is too long. There are only a handful of pitchers that could truly warrant a contract longer than that, and those pitchers most likely would not be coming to MN anyways. I understand that may limit the Twins options, but I would offer a higher AAV (like Correa) to offset. Kind of the same boat for RP as well. Very few RP are consistently good year in and year out. This may be the toughest role to predict success. I would rather see them continue to draft the fireballers and work them up to the big club as soon as possible before spending big money on 50 IP. To me, the biggest lineup holes they have are SS (after Correa opts out), the second catcher (to platoon with Jeffers), and another OF. SS - Unless you can get one of the big names on a team friendly contract, a solid 1 year placeholder until you know where things lie with Lewis. C - Your guess as is good as mine. I would prefer to see them get a bat-first guy here to offset Jeffers. OF - Kepler is basically the ideal 4th outfielder, so find another solid bat to fill his role

Not 100% convinced he will be going back to the Yankees, but I laughed when I saw this headline. TIER 1 - Yankees or Dodgers TIER 2 - a small (greater than zero) chance for San Diego, Chicago WS, Boston, Texas, California-Los Angeles-Anaheim Angels.

Having cost-controlled average ML players in your organization is not a bad thing. Miranda looks to be "average" at worst. Your assessment of MIranda looks to be spot on. Miranda looks to be "average" at worst. His bat looks MLB ready, but his positional defense will be the big key for him. Can he handle 1B/3B over the long haul will be the big question. The fact the Twins kept Arraez at 1B all season speaks less to me about the need to keep him in the lineup and healthy and more about the Twins current belief in Miranda's defense.

There are very few owners that take the "win at all cost" approach to owning their team. Every purchase is a financial investment first. To blame ownership in this fashion is short-sighted. The FO has been beating the public drum over the last few years that ownership has been willing to spend money. I also think they have shown it (Correa, Donaldson, Buxton to name a few). Look where the Twins payroll has been and that will answer this question.

I am not going to go too off topic here, but Dan Gladden is inarguably the worst color commentator on the radio. He is like listening to Bob Uecker's color from Major League (Fly ball... out). When he is talking, you have no idea what is happening in the game. He will miss complete at-bats, state the obvious like it is something new. He ruins the entire radio broadcast. It is not listenable. Here is a direct quote: "And the Twins have the bases loaded with one out, here comes the pitch [sound of ball hitting bat], pop fly to short right field... oh... well that will end the inning for the Twins who score just one run after right fielder dropped it." I have no clue why anybody thinks he has value in the booth. In 15+ years he has never improved. He needs to be fired. Anybody want to discuss this on a different thread we can, but I don't see how anybody can make a case for him.

Don't bring logic to an emotional (or opinion based) discussion.

I will give it a shot... How can Rocco Baldelli regain fans favor? Win. Nothing else will sway the haters. Even then, I don't know. Haters gotta hate.

A tad off-topic, but somebody better call Tom Kelly about how he handled Allan Anderson in 1988.

All the hostility... The Coach/Manager's role is exactly the same regardless of the sport or city. Receive the accolades when your team wins, receive the heat when your team loses. Good managers can have bad years, bad managers can have good years. So many factors that we, the "loving public", are not privy to factor in to all the decisions. Player is hungover and not ready to pitch. Player is going through a divorce and not mentally ready. Player's kid is getting bullied in school, needs time to deal with it. Every decision is not black and white. We, as the fans, see none of this. The media will not report this. By all accounts, Rocco is generally liked by his players. He follows the agenda set by the upper brass. There were many hurdles the Twins had to fight this year: injuries, expectations that were probably too high, more heartbreaking losses than necessary. Is Rocco a good manager? I don't know. But he isn't going anywhere, so settle in.

Look again... All of these examples had a very slow start their first and/or second year, most of which was 150 AB or less. I am not saying that Larnach or Wallner will rise to those levels. I am saying that you can't always judge a player based on early returns.

Ummm..... Sample Size anyone? Mike Trout, Lance Berkman, Bernie Williams, Mike Schmidt... How about a little closer to home: Jason Kubel, Justin Morneau, Harmon Killebrew I could go on and on. All had slow starts to their career. Good thing no one wrote them off so early. 30-40 games is not enough time to make a decision either way. Factor in the injuries and it makes it even harder.

1/$10m is nothing in today's market for a (at worst) slightly less than average 3B. Especially when you do not have a clear backup. The Twins have bigger decisions to make than this. Sign him to a 1-2 year deal with an option and move on.

IMO, the powder blues are necessary, it is pretty much unique to the Twins. I am ok with the pinstripes as well. This is all about marketing and gear sales. Nostalgia is always a seller.

It always amazes me how dramatic the roller coaster of fandom truly is. This team was probably overachieving a bit during the first half of the season (along with the White Sox and Cleveland underachieving) and it was "World Series Here We Come". Injuries, some regression to the mean, and a Cleveland team playing out of their gourd finally caught up with them. Now the masses are screaming "Fire the FO!", "Fire Rocco!", "Gut the team and start over!"... 1) Expectations for this team were to be .500. Here we are. I believe that the team planned to be post-season competitive next year and this year was somewhat of a bonus. The Mahle and Paddock moves were calculated risks this year with more of a payoff next year. Maeda out till next year. Correa basically on a one-year deal to hold for Lewis. Pitchers coming up to learn the ropes, This all points to 2023 2) Blame whoever you want, but bud luck goes a long way towards injuries and prevention. The only way to stop shoulder injuries in pitchers is to have them stop pitching. HBP, foul tips, concussions are all not preventable. 3) The organization as a whole is stronger now than it was before the current FO regime took over. Statistical analysis, drafting power pitchers, rebuilding the farm system (the only reason our system is ranked low is because we have graduated many guys out). They brought that to Minnesota. Flexibility and adapting were unheard of prior to them. 4) There will always be something to complain about: Our fielding is horrible. We don't let our SP go long enough (despite statistics backing most of the decisions, I am looking at you Sonny), we didn't use our relievers correctly or why is <insert player here> batting 3rd or 5th? Every team has holes in their product. The key is to find ways to deal with those holes. Those teams that can do that win. This team will be competitive next year. The rotation should be stronger. They will try to fill in the lineup holes where they can. Buxton, Kirriloff, Lewis, Polanco, Stashak, should all be back healthy (at least to start). We will be having the discussion of over/under 90 wins before you know it.

In a bubble, I agree these numbers are not great. But I am glad that you added the overall slash numbers as it shows that their overall performance with no outs and RISP is fairly similar to the normal stat lines. (The same argument made for "great" or "poor" post season players. Given enough at-bats, they trend to their normal stats). I would be interested to see how other teams slash lines compare to their overall stats and how that correlates to their success on the field. Another thing that would be interesting (though basically unprovable outside of the team) would be to see how the slash lines compare with what they are supposed to do (ie runner on 2nd, 0 outs, was the batter supposed to swing away, hit to right to advance the runner, sac bunt, etc.).

This is quite possibly the most lucid post I have seen in quite a while. Anybody here thinking that Rocco has enough pull to set this type of agenda on his own is crazy. A more tenured manager may have been able to push the envelope on this, but losing Wes Johnson mid-season basically steamrolled everything. As with most teams, the general agenda comes down from on high. Rocco either gets on the bus or gets run over. Anybody here think the young SP coming up have any real experience going deep into games in the minors? Really? As for SP going longer than 5-6 IP, please refer to the plethora of statistical evidence that shows going the third time through the lineup generally has bad results for the SP, including Gray and his ERA almost quadrupling the third time. I would argue that Gray owes his statistical success this year to the way the Twins have handled him.

I am surprised anybody reads Reusse anymore. Articles that are always negative, constantly baiting readers. Needs to go the way of the Dodo. His "knowledge of Twins baseball" is no better than the average fan at best.

Forbes article describing how the 2013 Astros were the most profitable team ever: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2013/08/26/2013-houston-astros-baseballs-worst-team-is-most-profitable-in-history/ Another Forbes article discussing profitability and winning: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2014/03/26/the-best-and-worst-mlb-teams-for-the-money-2/ Many owners treat their team as a business, yes. Those teams regularly prove winning is not a priority, the almighty dollar is. Look at the flip side. The Yankees spend outrageously every year and are in the playoffs almost every year. Boston, LA Dodgers, LA Angels, almost always at the top. Sure, some teams can buck the system through shrewd management, but their winning is cyclical. Keep good talent and win until they become too expensive, then trade everybody and lose. Spend regularly and you win regularly. To own a franchise is to be in a position where money is essentially irrelevant. When your worth is measured by billions, money is irrelevant. These teams are expensive toys, nothing more. Status symbols to brag about. Why else would Donald Sterling fight so hard to keep the LA Clippers?

Opening Day Team Salary: 2014: $85.8 mil 2013: $75.8 mil 2012: $94.1 mil 2011: $112.7 mil 2010: $97.6 mil 2009: $65.3 mil It's pretty rare that you see somebody defend the Twins payroll situation. Minnesota has seen increased revenue streams from television contracts and the stadium, but payroll has dropped to a level less than Target Field's first season. Conscious decisions were made to cut payroll at the cost of winning. How much better would this team be with Denard Span, Ben Revere, Michael Cuddyer, Justin Morneau, and Francisco Liriano, all moved due to financial considerations in the last here years. This doesn't include guys they gave up on that succeeded elsewhere (Gomez, Worley). The Pohlads have never made winning a priority in running this team. An occasional push here and there yes, but again done on the cheap. Will the Twins be better in 2015? Most assuredly. Will that be because of the managerial change? No. When we see Buxton, Sano, Rosario, May added to the roster, there will be an increase in talent, all at the MLB minimum. Gardenhire has done all the heavy lifting, his successor will reap the benefits.

Teflon and B Richard, you both misunderstand. Treating the team as a business does not mean they are looking to win every year. It means they are looking to make money. Why do you think payroll has dropped so precipitously since moving to Target Field? The move to relieve Gardenhire of his job is a very cheap way (relative to MLB anyways) to make it look like you are making an effort to win. The Pohlads are only making this move now in an effort to improve public perception of the team, which theoretically will sell more tickets. Firing Gardenhire was not a baseball decision, rather a financial one by the Pohlads.

To everybody that has been calling for Ron Gardenhire's head, congratulations. Your voice has finally been heard. Make no bones about it, this decision was not a baseball decision, but a decision based on the growing public perception that Ron Gardenhire is the main reason for the Twins losing 90 games plus each season four years in a row. If there is any question of Gardenhire's perception outside of Minnesota, read the public comments on the national articles. The comments are fairly consistent. "Gardenhire got a bad rap in Minnesota." "Would [insert team here] please fire [said team's manager] and hire Gardenhire? We would love to have him" "Gardenhire is getting the blame for the Twins refusal to spend money. We would take him in a heartbeat" The reality is that Terry Ryan had previously stated publicly that he expected Gardenhire back next year. Ryan has been very direct and straight with the media. He will withhold comment rather than publicly say something damaging. No reason to think he was lying then. What changed? Enter the Pohlads. Owners that have regularly treated this team as a business, looking only at profit/loss, not following the spend-money-to-make-money philosophy. Lagging ticket sales, a rash of recent negative publicity, underporformance from your highest paid players. What is the quickest, cheapest way to make a change to make it look like you are doing something? Fire the manager. Ryan and Gardenhire have been phenomenal in working within the confines created by the Pohlads. Injuries and bad luck have had as large an impact on this team as anything. If anybody thinks that bringing in a new manager will fundamentally change the way the Twins draft, spend, train, or run their organization they will be sadly mistaken. I hope the individuals that have been calling for Gardenhire's head for the past few years will also praise him as he leads his next team into the playoffs. Rick Anderson will probably be with him as they do. As for us, we can only hope that the next Twins manager will be as capable as Gardenhire was.