Twins GFP

Jim Bowden is at it again. In today's article, he writes about trade candidates for all 30 teams. For the Twins, he lists Justin Morneau. Even though the Twins have said they aren't trading him, and Willingham may be a more likely target. That being said, I can at least swallow that one. The rest of the article is the usual lazy work that he passes off. Among the 30 players listed are pitchers: Brian Matusz Luke Hochevar Jeremy Hellickson Trevor Bauer Julio Teheran Mike Leake Jake Westbrook Guess how many of these pitchers he has the Twins listed as a potential trade target? That's right... none. Not one. He does have the Twins listed as a potential trade target for two players: Pitcher Vance Worley (though now Span has been traded I don't know what they would want) 1B Mitch Moreland Really? We are on the lookout for another 1B? Yeesh. I know I should stop reading his articles, but it is like a car wreck... you just have to look.

Seth, Nick, and Brock: I don't believe you read what I wrote. My discussion was not aimed at whether or not you "supported" the actual rumor, rather how you appeared to support to individual posting the source. Those are two different discussions. At no time did I claim TD leadership took the rumor as fact, nor did I say that any of you as individuals reported this as fact. The fact that multiple individuals have debunked Thrylos citing sources and claiming rumors should be enough for everybody to draw their own conclusions. Once the Baker news came out, John's post and Brock's closing the thread gave the impression that TD leadership was protecting Thrylos. Whether that was the intention or not, that was not how it came across. I know that TD leadership is working to maintain a level of civility around here. Brock and I had a discussion regarding this exact thing prior to the rules coming out a while back. I do agree with this, and feel it is a good thing for the TD site. My concern is how the TD brass handled the situation. If somebody other than Thrylos had posted this exact same thing, would it have received this level of scrutiny? By Seth's own admission, you guys monitored this closely from the start. Why? Because you believed the post might be true, or you knew that with Thrylos' history, this was going to blow up? My problem is that Thrylos has a well earned, very public, negative perception. If somebody with 10 posts had posted this and was wrong, those same comments would have been there and the thread would not be closed. But because you know Thrylos, it was handled differently and you are protecting him. Whether you want to admit it or not, the "piling on" as you put it, only hurts Thrylos. In 2-3 days, this all would have blown over by itself. By closing the thread, you are validating the bashing that Thrylos does. This is not about the integrity of a website. If it was, Thrylos, and those like him, would be under tighter control in how they comment. This comes across as very hypocritical for a site trying to protect individuals from bashing, then validating one of it's chief bashers. Thrylos will come back in the next few days. He will start ripping individuals on a local level again. Where will you be when that happens?

Before I begin, a quick recap for those who don't know what has been going on. A while back, Thrylos started a thread by posting that, according to a source, Scott Baker had signed a 3 year contract with the Twins. The deal had not been announced, but Thrylos said it was signed and done, and it would be announced. A few people responded in disbelief, Thrylos responded in a demeaning fashion. A few days ago, news came out that Baker actually signed with the Cubs. The thread turned into a pile on Thrylos. John Bonnes attempted to diffuse the situation warning that by attacking incorrect sources, future posters with "inside information" would not put their neck on the line for fear of retribution. His post was essentially ignored. A short while later, Brock closed the thread. You can see the entire thread here: http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?3858-Twins-re-signed-Baker I have disagreed with John, Seth, et. al., many times before. I have posted to this effect. But I have to say that this is the first time I have been truly disappointed in the Twins Daily leadership group. There are a few points I would like to make: 1) Thrylos is not a rookie poster. On the contrary, he is among the most prolific posters on the Twins Daily website. I can honestly say that his comments are usually among the most negative, argumentative, and demeaning of all the posters here. The fact that there were so many shots taken at Thrylos (including one by Parker Hageman) should tell you how Thrylos is generally viewed by the Twins Daily readers. 2) Thrylos could easily have avoided this situation by being half a step more cautious in reporting his information. He could have qualified the statement in any number of ways, but he chose not to. Furthermore, he invited challenges by posting aggressive replies to those individuals that wondered about the validity of his information. 3) When it was officially announced Baker signed with the Cubs, it looked as though TD went into protect Thrylos mode. Bonnes makes his comment about not attacking source-citers (I'll come back to this). Brock closes the thread. I find it very sad that there posts and posts of Thrylos attacking other comments, making wild accusations, and pushing around other posters, yet when the tables turn on said individual, TD make moves to protect him. They may say that they weren't, but it can't be viewed any other way. John Bonnes' comments about not attacking individuals that cite sources because it can scare away others from posting in the future is also way off base. All of the negative comments about Thrylos on the thread were not made because a source was wrong. They were made as a direct result of Thrylos' past posting history, including his own responses in that thread. Aggressive, negative posters like Thrylos do substantially more damage to your new reader base than any single thread like this could possibly do. Allowing daily attacks from posters like Thrylos, then protecting them when the tables are turned, is a poor move that smacks in the face of what you say Twins Daily wants to accomplish. I understand that the TD group at times walks a fine line. Their hope is that this site doesn't turn into a bashing free-for-all, but a stays a more intelligent discourse on all things Twins related. I applaud their efforts in this regard. But if you want to protect somebody, protect your new readers, not somebody like Thrylos. Be more diligent on the slams and rips. Posters at Thrylos' level do not need to be protected, and have earned (both positive and negative) the responses coming to them. It should also be known that, at the time of this blog, Thrylos has not posted anything since the Baker news came out. No response, nothing. That speaks volumes to me. I hope that situation reminds the TD staff about where they want this site to go, and what is more important: protecting one individual, or protecting their readership.

Before I begin, a quick recap for those who don't know what has been going on. A while back, Thrylos started a thread by posting that, according to a source, Scott Baker had signed a 3 year contract with the Twins. The deal had not been announced, but Thrylos said it was signed and done, and it would be announced. A few people responded in disbelief, Thrylos responded in a demeaning fashion. A few days ago, news came out that Baker actually signed with the Cubs. The thread turned into a pile on Thrylos. John Bonnes attempted to diffuse the situation warning that by attacking incorrect sources, future posters with "inside information" would not put their neck on the line for fear of retribution. His post was essentially ignored. A short while later, Brock closed the thread. You can see the entire thread here: http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?3858-Twins-re-signed-Baker I have disagreed with John, Seth, et. al., many times before. I have posted to this effect. But I have to say that this is the first time I have been truly disappointed in the Twins Daily leadership group. There are a few points I would like to make: 1) Thrylos is not a rookie poster. On the contrary, he is among the most prolific posters on the Twins Daily website. I can honestly say that his comments are usually among the most negative, argumentative, and demeaning of all the posters here. The fact that there were so many shots taken at Thrylos (including one by Parker Hageman) should tell you how Thrylos is generally viewed by the Twins Daily readers. 2) Thrylos could easily have avoided this situation by being half a step more cautious in reporting his information. He could have qualified the statement in any number of ways, but he chose not to. Furthermore, he invited challenges by posting aggressive replies to those individuals that wondered about the validity of his information. 3) When it was officially announced Baker signed with the Cubs, it looked as though TD went into protect Thrylos mode. Bonnes makes his comment about not attacking source-citers (I'll come back to this). Brock closes the thread. I find it very sad that there posts and posts of Thrylos attacking other comments, making wild accusations, and pushing around other posters, yet when the tables turn on said individual, TD make moves to protect him. They may say that they weren't, but it can't be viewed any other way. John Bonnes' comments about not attacking individuals that cite sources because it can scare away others from posting in the future is also way off base. All of the negative comments about Thrylos on the thread were not made because a source was wrong. They were made as a direct result of Thrylos' past posting history, including his own responses in that thread. Aggressive, negative posters like Thrylos do substantially more damage to your new reader base than any single thread like this could possibly do. Allowing daily attacks from posters like Thrylos, then protecting them when the tables are turned, is a poor move that smacks in the face of what you say Twins Daily wants to accomplish. I understand that the TD group at times walks a fine line. Their hope is that this site doesn't turn into a bashing free-for-all, but a stays a more intelligent discourse on all things Twins related. I applaud their efforts in this regard. But if you want to protect somebody, protect your new readers, not somebody like Thrylos. Be more diligent on the slams and rips. Posters at Thrylos' level do not need to be protected, and have earned (both positive and negative) the responses coming to them. It should also be known that, at the time of this blog, Thrylos has not posted anything since the Baker news came out. No response, nothing. That speaks volumes to me. I hope that situation reminds the TD staff about where they want this site to go, and what is more important: protecting one individual, or protecting their readership.

You hit it in the article. Everyone expects the Angels to decline the options, so why make a move now when you could probably pick them up cheaper. If the options are picked up, the bag of balls option won't work either. The Angels would look for semi-decent prospects in return, especially for Haren. The theory is right though. Take a 1 year flyer and if it works, look to extend.

I am a little perplexed as to why everybody feels that Molitor would be a good coach/manager. Other than the recent feelers, what interest has he really shown in coaching? There have been countless managerial and coaching openings over the last few years,I don't recall hearing Molitors name mentioned once as a candidate. Ryne Sandberg wants to manage, and he is chasing a job all over the place. Ventura and Matheny are not good comps as both of them have only been out of the league a few years. Seriously... get somebody who really wants it.

Well, either everybody won't admit to their predictions, or nobody saw the link to the article at the top of the article. I'll give you another chance. http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...tions-for-2012

http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?611-Bold-Twins-Predictions-for-2012 As we know, national pundits rarely go back and critique their own predictions. I wonder if our Twins Daily posters are made of stronger stuff. I started a thread before the year asking for bold predictions for the year. This seems like a good time to revisit these. I will start with mine: - Scott Baker will make less than 10 starts for the Twins, but they will pick up his option for 2013. Baker made no starts for Twins this year, but it looks extremely doubtful they will pick up his option. Result: half right - Matt Capps will save less than 10 games for the Twins. Capps ended the year with 14 saves. He was passable before missing the last half of the season due to injury. Result: wrong (though right in principle) - Joe Mauer will catch over 135 games and bat .330. Joe played in a career high 147 games this year, but only caught 74 times as the team looked to keep him healthy by reducing his catching load. Joe did bat .319 this year and had one of the better offensive years of his career, but did not get to .330. Result: wrong - In spite of an inconsistent rotation and subpar defense, this team will win at least 81 games. The defense was better than expected, but the rotation was historically bad. They ended with 66 wins. Not a pretty number. Result: wrong Feel free to revisit your predictions and comment on your optimistic or pessimistic view of of the team then and now.

http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?611-Bold-Twins-Predictions-for-2012 As we know, national pundits rarely go back and critique their own predictions. I wonder if our Twins Daily posters are made of stronger stuff. I started a thread before the year asking for bold predictions for the year. This seems like a good time to revisit these. I will start with mine: - Scott Baker will make less than 10 starts for the Twins, but they will pick up his option for 2013. Baker made no starts for Twins this year, but it looks extremely doubtful they will pick up his option. Result: half right - Matt Capps will save less than 10 games for the Twins. Capps ended the year with 14 saves. He was passable before missing the last half of the season due to injury. Result: wrong (though right in principle) - Joe Mauer will catch over 135 games and bat .330. Joe played in a career high 147 games this year, but only caught 74 times as the team looked to keep him healthy by reducing his catching load. Joe did bat .319 this year and had one of the better offensive years of his career, but did not get to .330. Result: wrong - In spite of an inconsistent rotation and subpar defense, this team will win at least 81 games. The defense was better than expected, but the rotation was historically bad. They ended with 66 wins. Not a pretty number. Result: wrong Feel free to revisit your predictions and comment on your optimistic or pessimistic view of of the team then and now.

Capps was ok before he got hurt. The bullpen continued to play well without him. Considering the other pitching holes the Twins have, spending $6 mil on an average reliever would be an incredibly bad move by the FO. (Deja Vu. I swear I made this exact statement less than a year ago...)

Why not Joe Mauer? Could be the highest paid 2B in all of baseball.

This is pretty much dead on. Though if the Twins go out and spend any money on a 2B or SS and don't sign the "free agent pitcher of the moment", this website will blow up.

Pavano and Casilla are the only two on this list I feel comfortable saying will for sure not be with the team next year. Grey and Butera are both very cheap, they will not be moved anywhere (except maybe to the minors). Morneau will not be moved, as Parmalee has shown nothing in the majors. Blackburn and Nishioka will not be moved as they are sunk money that nobody else will take. Blackburn still could have value. Dozier ciould be in AAA, but I think the starting SS is his by default next year (hopefully they will not give him the Casilla-length rope). I still think the Twins see Span as a core player, meaning it will take a lot to move him. Pending the 40-man roster situation, I could easily see Tosoni released. Capps was relatively effective this year. I agree that $4.5 mil is high, but the Twins could pick this up anyways.

Ummm... No. Anybody else want to try the "yes" side of this argument?

John, I think you just made a pretty good case why the Twins shouldn't move Morneau. I'm in the camp that the Twins are not far away from competing for the division. Moving Morneau at this point doesn't make a lot of sense unless they get a goldmine for him (which they won't).

As it stands today, here is your starting rotation for next year: $5 mil FA Diamond Blackburn two of these: Hendricks/Gibson/Deduno/DeVries

Keep a very thick skin and you will be fine. Oh, and blog alot about how Gardy and the FO all need to be fired. We don't see enough of that around here. (Sorry, somebody needs to invent a sarcasm icon)

Aberdeen, SD They used to have an Orioles farm team back in the Jim Palmer days. They currently have the Pheasants playing in the Northern League. Small city tht would enjoy the exposure, only 5 hour drive from Minneapolis.

The Twins did not make any deadline moves! Hide your women and children! Anybody listed as non-player personnel in the Twins organization beware of flash mobs of angry Twins "fans" distrought over the fact that there were no trades today. Ron Gardenhire - You will be doomed to write the same lineup as yesterday! The horror! No trades to complain about how we were hosed!! No new players to mock and ridicule!! Terry Ryan... can only whine about ...your "non-moves"... Can't... watch... Span.. in... lineup... tonight... AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! (running away from my computer screaming and cursing Bud Selig..)

The Twins did not make any deadline moves! Hide your women and children! Anybody listed as non-player personnel in the Twins organization beware of flash mobs of angry Twins "fans" distrought over the fact that there were no trades today. Ron Gardenhire - You will be doomed to write the same lineup as yesterday! The horror! No trades to complain about how we were hosed!! No new players to mock and ridicule!! Terry Ryan... can only whine about ...your "non-moves"... Can't... watch... Span.. in... lineup... tonight... AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! (running away from my computer screaming and cursing Bud Selig..)

Touche. If somebody doesn't say it, nobody will.

Ok. So Liriano has been traded to the White Sox for two marginal prospects. Let's look at at a few things we can assume to be correct: 1) The Twins were not going to offer Liriano the $12.5 mil qualifying offer at the end of the year. 2) The Twins do not want to roll the dice with Liriano in the future (ie long term contract). 3) The Twins made the best deal they could as the deadline approached. Like it or not, 2 low level prospects was it. Now, Let's look at some facts: 1) $2 million saved is $2 million saved 2) At this point and juncture, trading to an intra-divisional rival has zero impact on the future. Liriano is a FA at the end of the year, at which point he could sign with any team. As the Twins are out of the race now, it has no bearing on this year whatsoever. 3) We, the general public, know nothing about anything. We do not know what the Twins front office thinks about Liriano, his pitching, or his state of mind. We do not know what Liriano or his agent told the Twins about next year. We do not know what other offers were on the table for Liriano. I continuously make the mistake of looking at the comments and reactions to things like the Liriano trade, or other moves the Twins do/don't make. It never ceases to amaze me how much anger and hostility there is at the Twins and the organization. I'll bet the negative comments outweigh the positives ten to one, and the positive comments are met with ridicule and "homer" comments. It reminds me a lot of my 2 year old. Scream and yell at everything if it isn't perfect. If something doesn't go the way you think it should go, throw a tantrum. If complaining doesn't get your way, complain louder. It makes me wonder how the Twins Daily guys could possibly keep an open mind on things when they are constantly reading whine, whine, whine all day long. All I can say is that I empathize with them as I watch my 2 year old. Here is my take: 1) The Liriano trade was fine. Liriano's ups and downs made it impossible to get any value for him. 2) Terry Ryan needs more time to be adequately evaluated. Drafts and prospects need 3-5 years before they can be considered good or bad. 3) I have said this many times before. Ryan is working under the guidelines set before him by the Pohlads. He is working under budget constraints and who knows what else when it comes to the decisions he has to make every day. The last time Terry Ryan left, it put us back into the situation we have now. If Terry Ryan was fired today, who knows who would come in. Be careful what you wish for. Folks, rooting for the Twins can be very difficult at times. They don't throw money around like its water (like the Wolves and Vikings have done in the past). We all know how the Pohlads operate, that they treat the Twins more like a business model, and less like a girlfriend. Not every team can have Mark Cuban as their owner. But you have to know and accept this to be a Twins fan. Otherwise you are just wasting your time and mine by having to read your whining. The Pohlads are not going anywhere. Deal with it. Live with it the way it is. Take the Twins organization for what it is. Otherwise, please take your unfounded whining about the intelligence levels of the front office, managerial staff, etc. and direct it about 4 hours east of here. The Brewers need more "fans" anyways.

Ok. So Liriano has been traded to the White Sox for two marginal prospects. Let's look at at a few things we can assume to be correct: 1) The Twins were not going to offer Liriano the $12.5 mil qualifying offer at the end of the year. 2) The Twins do not want to roll the dice with Liriano in the future (ie long term contract). 3) The Twins made the best deal they could as the deadline approached. Like it or not, 2 low level prospects was it. Now, Let's look at some facts: 1) $2 million saved is $2 million saved 2) At this point and juncture, trading to an intra-divisional rival has zero impact on the future. Liriano is a FA at the end of the year, at which point he could sign with any team. As the Twins are out of the race now, it has no bearing on this year whatsoever. 3) We, the general public, know nothing about anything. We do not know what the Twins front office thinks about Liriano, his pitching, or his state of mind. We do not know what Liriano or his agent told the Twins about next year. We do not know what other offers were on the table for Liriano. I continuously make the mistake of looking at the comments and reactions to things like the Liriano trade, or other moves the Twins do/don't make. It never ceases to amaze me how much anger and hostility there is at the Twins and the organization. I'll bet the negative comments outweigh the positives ten to one, and the positive comments are met with ridicule and "homer" comments. It reminds me a lot of my 2 year old. Scream and yell at everything if it isn't perfect. If something doesn't go the way you think it should go, throw a tantrum. If complaining doesn't get your way, complain louder. It makes me wonder how the Twins Daily guys could possibly keep an open mind on things when they are constantly reading whine, whine, whine all day long. All I can say is that I empathize with them as I watch my 2 year old. Here is my take: 1) The Liriano trade was fine. Liriano's ups and downs made it impossible to get any value for him. 2) Terry Ryan needs more time to be adequately evaluated. Drafts and prospects need 3-5 years before they can be considered good or bad. 3) I have said this many times before. Ryan is working under the guidelines set before him by the Pohlads. He is working under budget constraints and who knows what else when it comes to the decisions he has to make every day. The last time Terry Ryan left, it put us back into the situation we have now. If Terry Ryan was fired today, who knows who would come in. Be careful what you wish for. Folks, rooting for the Twins can be very difficult at times. They don't throw money around like its water (like the Wolves and Vikings have done in the past). We all know how the Pohlads operate, that they treat the Twins more like a business model, and less like a girlfriend. Not every team can have Mark Cuban as their owner. But you have to know and accept this to be a Twins fan. Otherwise you are just wasting your time and mine by having to read your whining. The Pohlads are not going anywhere. Deal with it. Live with it the way it is. Take the Twins organization for what it is. Otherwise, please take your unfounded whining about the intelligence levels of the front office, managerial staff, etc. and direct it about 4 hours east of here. The Brewers need more "fans" anyways.