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arby58 reacted to Danchat for a blog entry, A Retrospective on the “Pitching Pipeline” – Part 1
(article has been re-located to Blogs, so when all parts are finished they can be read together)
The phrase “pitching pipeline” has been a phrase uttered frequently on Twins Daily. A search reveals that the first mention of that exact phrase occurred in 2015, and the term was lighted used through 2021 when we notably had the first article that mentioned it, Seth Stohs’ Building a Pitching Pipeline. The article makes the classic comparison to what Cleveland had going in their starting rotation – filling it with the likes of Corey Kluber, Mike Clevinger, Shane Bieber, Aaron Cavle, and others. Since then, the phrase has been used a total of 850 times as the discourse has ramped up – whether it exists, how strong it is, and how it has lived up to the various expectations we have given it.
I’ve split my plans on this into three parts – the first two going over a smatterings of opinions since the debate began in 2021, the last part going covering my opinions on the matter with analysis of the many pitching prospects that have been through this organization since the “Falvine” regime took over in 2017. Let’s try to understand the arguments that have been offered by taking a look at a variety of articles and comments on the matter, and I'll provide some commentary.
March 2021, Nick Nelson’s Starting Pitcher Analysis
"After four years of assembling the infrastructure and creating a culture of fearless development," wrote Dan Hayes at The Athletic recently, "the Twins front office feels as if its pitching pipeline is finally ready to churn out impressive arms at a more consistent rate." The Twins' top three pitching prospects – Jhoan Duran, Jordan Balazovic, Matt Canterino – are verging on big-league ready.
FYI, at the time of this writing, Balzovic and Canterino hadn’t yet pitched in AA.
June 2021
chpettit19: I firmly believe we'd be starting to see the "pitching pipeline" (not that they'd all come up and be great, but we'd have a better read on if there's real MLB arms in the system) at this point if 2020 had been a normal year. They went into that season, I believe, looking to make it through that season with a mix of veterans doing their thing and rookies getting test runs as injury replacements. Then they planned to be able to hand a spot or 2 in the rotation and pen to youngsters in 2021. Instead they got nothing from rookies last year because the world shut down.
Seansy: I think Falvey has delivered the pipeline of pitching talent but it's just been delayed due to COVID cancelling the minors season last year and all of the injuries now in the following year. Canterino, Enlow, Sands, Ober, Winder, Duran, etc. are all guys they have acquired and developed since taking over… I definitely think Falvey has held up his end of the pipeline even if we're only just barely starting to see the fruits of those labors.
This was an opinion shared by several users, as it was reasonable to suggest the 2020 season altered the timeline. But some began to see it as an excuse:
USAFChief: Did 2020 only happen to Twins minor leaguers?
June-July 2021, Tom Froemming’s On the Minnesota Twins Front Office, Faith and Being Fickle
The overall team success has been there (well, prior to this season) but this front office has not delivered a pitching pipeline nor impact pitching through free agency. About a month ago, Aaron Gleeman of The Athletic took a look back at every Falvey-Levine era free agent signing. It wasn’t inspiring. Their record in trades isn’t looking so great, either.
Another article shared that of July 1st 2021, the Twins pitching staff was 29th in WAR.
August 2021: Matthew Taylor’s 5 Free Agent Options for the Minnesota Twins to Replace José Berríos
Dman: They have about 10 guys that they have drafted or traded for that have a chance to be mid rotation starter types (i.e. throw hard enough, Have above average secondary's, Have had minor league success). If they can't get that pitching to work at the MLB level time to find guys with a better idea how to accomplish that goal. Once they have two or three solid young pitchers they should be set for another 3 to 4 year window and if they keep the pitching pipeline going maybe sustainable good to great seasons. If it doesn't the whole thing falls apart.
February 2022, Jamie Cameron’s The Michael Pineda Conundrum
The Twins have essentially been Cleveland’s opposite organization in recent seasons, struggling to create any meaningful starting pitching pipeline to the majors. This may be on the verge of changing with the Falvey led front office, with Jhoan Duran beginning to dominate at AAA and several other standout options working their way through MiLB.
After a surprisingly poor 2021 campaign left the Twins in last place, questions began to rise about the pitching understandly after the likes of JA Happ, Matt Shoemaker, Randy Dobnak, and Griffin Jax started games and had ERAs over 6.00.
February 2022, Ted Schwerzler’s Twins Trading Offers Exciting Opportunity
Looking at the prospect rankings and, more importantly, the organizational location for Minnesota, it’s clear they need external help. The Twins farm system shows up consistently at the bottom of the teens, and outside of Jordan Balazovic, there isn’t an arm on the farm that’s a top 100 talent and ready to immediately contribute. An explanation for much of the feelings regarding the Twins system relates to the missed time the past few seasons.
Quite a shift in tone from the 2021 preseason article. Different authors, of course, and some key injuries happened in 2021.
mikelink45: Are we all over-rating the minor league arms? Reading TD and following the threads it seems like we have lots of good arms, but stepping outside our community it seems a little sparse.
bean5302: (In response to Balazovic being the only top 100 prospect pitcher) Winder and Balazovic are both potential mid-rotation guys, maybe even higher than that.
March 2022, Nash Walker’s Playoff Expansion Leaves No Excuses for Twins Front Office
The belief that the Twins, coming off a horrifically disappointing 73-win season *can’t* improve enough to win is giving too much slack to this front office. Ownership hired them to build a sustainable winner, a team that would compete every year. I understand there's a pitching pipeline coming.
cHawk: I’ve said this before and I still stand by it, the # of games the Twins win in 2022 will depend on how much the pipeline produces. If it does produce, I think the Twins could have a fighting chance in 2022. But this is the year which that needs to start happening, if there is baseball this year. If it doesn’t then it’s a failure.
DocBauer: Regarding sustainability, that doesn't mean, and has never meant, the Twins would be in contention EVERY season. NOBODY can guarantee that EVERY season. It's about being a good, solid team with a chance to win and be relevant MOST years. (Same with any sport) … But 3 of 5 years, to me, is a mark of sustainability, even with unexpected disaster in 2021.
For the record, the Twins won 78 games and have been to the playoffs in one of three seasons since the expansion and are not on track to do so in a fourth.
April 2022, Nick Nelson’s Twins 2022 Position Analysis: Starting Pitcher
There's a lot of talent in this pipeline. It started coming to fruition a year ago, when Bailey Ober emerged as the team's steadiest starter and Joe Ryan arrived late with an eye-opening first impression. The Twins will be looking for more of where that came from this year, with a bevy of their top prospects in the high minors and at an age (23-25) where players tend to enter the big-league ranks.
THE BAD - I read the words now and they haunt me. Like corrosive acid, they eat away at my very soul. "If the Twins have ever fielded a better and deeper rotation than the one they're set to line up this year, I can't remember it," I wrote when introducing last year's starting pitching analysis. "From top to bottom (and beyond) this unit looks stacked."
I must give credit to Nick, he acknolwedged how off his 2021 starting pitcher analysis was.
Injuries and ill-fated signings ravaged the club's depth in 2021 and left the Twins scrambling for answers. It was understandable as a one-year blip. Another season of dreadful pitching performance will not be nearly as tolerable, and would leave Derek Falvey and Thad Levine open to all the criticism they'll receive. Their defiantly minimalist approach to the offseason pitching market will only be excusable if their methodically developed pitching pipeline pays off, and fast.
MikeSixel: This is the year their beliefs in not signing top FA pitchers and their ability to develop them has to pay off. Or I'd fire them. They've had long enough to draft and develop pitching..... And we're still waiting.
Mike8791: Falvine in 5+ years has not even been able to develop one reliever, no less a starter.
In contrast, here is an April 2022 minor league update:
Wabene: There are some arms in the Saint's bullpen. Let's move quick the big league pen is doing us no favors. Overall you gotta like the pitching SWR, Raya, Hajjar, c'mon now we aren't even talking about Canterino, Varland and Enlow yet. And yet there are more.
Seth Stohs: The pitching pipeline is strong. No doubt about it.
July 2022: Various Game Threads
USAFChief: I sure don't read much about the vaunted pitching pipeline(TM) anymore.
Vanimal46: It’s been very disappointing with the lack of progression in the pitching pipeline. During the preseason, TD had 10 pitchers in the top 20 list. Chase Petty traded for Sonny Gray, so 9 remain. Ryan, Duran, and Winder are the ones contributing and the rest are struggling or injured. Balazovic in particular has been an utter disaster this year.
Bunsen82: Isn’t the goal to have a hitting and pitching pipeline? Compared to 4 years ago we have so much more pitching depth than we did back then. We will have a lot of pitching options for next year. Obviously the bullpen will need help.
Negativity was the common attitude around the idea, as you’d expect in the midst of a second straight losing season, but there were some stragglers that had hope.
Danchat: And the pitching pipeline... we've had a few breakthroughs, but still not close enough to what Cleveland's (like we expected). Outside of Winder, we don't have any prospects on the near horizon that will be able to help this year.
I have news for you, past me. Winder ain’t it!
August: The Tyler Mahle trade
Dman: We needed another starter for this year and next year. Let's hope a pitching pipeline develops in our lifetime and we don't have to make trades like this.
Wabene: Cleveland's vaunted pitching pipeline the Twins are trying to emulate was largely constructed through trades.
Gotta disagree big-time with Wabene, Cleveland wasn’t making trades like moving 3 prospects for 1.5 years of control of a mid-rotation starter.
August 2022: Cody Christie’s “3 Reasons the Twins Farm System Ranking Continues to Drop”
Linus: The vaunted pitching pipeline is turning out to be a garden hose.
KirbyDome89: Am I concerned about the continued inability to develop pitching? Absolutely.
LastOnePicked: 2022 was supposed to be the make-or-break year for this FO's ability to deliver on the pipeline. It hasn't happened, and there are no promising arms on the horizon. Time to move on.
Nicksaviking: So we were expecting everyone to pop up and be Atlanta circa ‘95? You’re being unreasonable with the expectations of inexperienced pitchers.
USAFChief: I'm not sure I was ever the one on the unreasonable side of expectations. But I hope I'm proven wrong, and we get some reliably above average pitching next year beyond Duran.
With the hindsight of 2023, I can tell Chief that we did get more “reliably above average” pitching, but it came from veteran additions / better play from the likes of Pablo Lopez, Brock Stewart, and Emilio Pagan. The pipeline produced Griffin Jax as a reliever and Ober finally broke through as a quality starter, but that was about it. Louie Varland was a passable fifth starter/long reliever and likes of Sands and Funderburk cleaned up some low leverage innings.
DJL44: Part of the problem is they are incredibly reliant on the MLB draft to fill the pitching pipeline. They are getting nothing from their international scouting.
A+ comment, I rarely ever see anyone talk about this but we’re three years in the future and we still have absolutely nothing developed from minors to majors from our international prospects. I will be covering this in a later part of my series.
September 2022: Nick Nelson’s Will Louie Varland Be Falvey's First Pitching Development Success Story?
Varland's got everything you could want: outstanding performance at every level, legitimate high-octane stuff, and -- perhaps most critically, where the Twins are concerned -- a seemingly strong bill of health and durability. Of course, those things were also true of Ober and Winder, and any number of other promising ascendant arms in this organization ... until they weren't. Petty is gone. Matt Canterino's out of the picture until 2024. Winder's health is an ongoing question mark. Jordan Balazovic has seen his stock plunge amidst a nightmare season.
For even as pessimistic as I can be on the subject, I wouldn’t claim that there hadn’t been a single pitching development success story. Seth agrees with that sentiment:
SethStohs: Ryah, Duran... I would say Jax has absolutely been a success. Thielbar was older and had been around, but they got the best out of him. And, what's exciting is the pipeline. Obviously not all will make it, but the more that develop well, the more options down the line. David Festa was a Day 3 guy in 2021 and he's been dominant at two levels (this year's Varland). Jaylen Nowlin, their 19th round pick last year, has been very good.
KirbyDome89: The "pipeline," is a meme at this point. Every organization has a Festa or Nowlin; guys in low minors who maybe if things break right find themselves in a major league rotation. That can't be where the goalposts are shifting.
Dman: The OP is right I went into the year defending the FO for a pitching pipeline that had Balazovich, Sands, Henriquez, Winder, Duran, Enlow on the horizon, Varland, SWR, with some young guys coming up in Povich, Hajjar and Petty with outside chances in SGL, Headrick, Mooney and Festa. Almost all of it has cratered or been traded away. It almost feels like they are back to square one.
I don’t remember this one! The article name certainly fits into my analysis.
September 2022: Cody Christie’s “Minnesota's Pitching Pipeline Plan Failed in 2022”
Derek Falvey was brought to Minnesota because of his experience with the Cleveland organization. During his Cleveland tenure, one of his calling cards was cultivating young pitching, which has been a staple of the Guardians organization. Minnesota was going to start the 2022 campaign with Ryan and Ober in the rotation, but there were expectations that other young pitchers would join their ranks. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case, and Minnesota's pitching pipeline may have taken a step back this season… Many will blame injuries for the Twins' failures during the 2022 season. However, the lack of contributions from the pitching pipeline is also concerning. Not every pitching prospect can be successful throughout their professional careers, and there is hope that some of these arms will get healthy in the offseason. As Minnesota's focus turns to 2023, the front office might not be able to rely as heavily on the pitching pipeline when building next year's roster.
Ted Schwerzler: They’re hoping to have the likes of Simeon Woods Richardson, Jordan Balazovic, Ronny Henriquez, Blayne Enlow, and Cole Sands give them real starter innings. Everyone mentioned there is close ...
USAFChief: And there we have it, folks...the first use of the vaunted "pitching pipeline" meme for 2023!
September 2022 marks the transition of “pitching pipeline” transitioning from talking point to meme. And the frustration continued to boil over:
December 2022: Brock Beauchamp’s “That’s it. I’m pretty much done with this front office.”
I’m tired of trading for injured pitchers. I’m tired of the lack of pitching development. I simply don’t see many reasons to keep them around anymore. They’re not exceptional at anything and have significant flaws.
Twins Daily hit a low point when it was announced Carlos Correa had inked a massive deal and wasn’t going to be a Twin, you can imagine the responses in this article echoed Brock’s frustrations. However, as we know in hindsight the 2023 season went on to be a fairly successful one with the team winning 87 games, the division, and finally getting over that playoff bugaboo.
In Part 2, I’ll do some more analysis of the discourse over the 2023 and 2024 seasons. How did the successes of the 2023 season mold the opinions of Falvine and the so-called pitching pipeline? And then how did the big step back in 2024 effect it? Tune in next time to find out.
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arby58 reacted to jorgenswest for a blog entry, Looking Back: Top Prospects Moved at the 2024 Trade Deadline
ESPN listed the top prospects moved at last year’s deadline. Let’s look at how they progressed with their new teams.
Aiden Smith OF: Acquired by the Rays in the Randy Arozarena deal. At the time he had an FV of 50 while playing A Ball in Modesto. The most recent update has him with a FV of 40+ as he has advanced to high A. He has an uninspiring OPS of .716 and hasn’t made it to AA yet.
Jake Bloss SP: Acquired by Toronto in the Yusei Kikuchi deal. He had a good first half in AA with a 1.61 ERA over 8 starts in 2024. The Jays moved him to AAA where he posted a 6.91 ERA in 8 starts following the deadline. After 23 innings in 2025 and a 6.46 ERA this year he is headed towards Tommy John surgery. By 2027 when he is fully ready to return he will be out of options.
George Klassen SP: Acquired by the Angels for closer Carlos Estevez. The former Gopher was lights out in A Ball at the time of the trade. He has moved to AA this year and has a 5.86 ERA with a lot of strikeouts and far too many walks. He did get invited to the futures game.
Augustin Ramirez C/DH: Acquired by the Marlins for Jazz Chisholm who had an 2+ years of control remaining. Ramirez is in the majors. He has started 32 games at catcher and has allowed 88% stolen base rate. He also leads the league in passed balls with 8 though he has only started 32 of 97 games. Fourteen wild pitches have also been thrown while he was catcher. He has DH’d more than he has caught this year and has a 103 wRC+. He will likely improve the bat and will need to in order to stick at DH. It doesn’t look like he will be anything beyond an emergency catcher.
Dylan Lesko SP: Acquired by the Rays in the Jason Adam deal. he has a great arm but has not pitched well in the minors yet following a 2022 Tommy John surgery. He pitched 14.1 innings after the deal last year with a 9.42 ERA and this year was shut down after 5 innings in which he gave up 10 runs. I am not sure of the status of his shut down.
Hindsight is 20/20 and there is one prospect traded that is flourishing. Kyle Stowers was acquired for Kevin Rogers. He was in ESPNs third tier of prospects. The corner outfielder appeared in the All Star game and looks to be a fixture. A high strike out rate might catch up with him as pitchers see him a second a third time but he looks to be the real deal.
Prospects always seem so promising. The reality is that success in the major leagues is really hard. Trading proven major leaguers for prospects is a risk. Teams acquiring the top tier of prospects were given good grades last year. In hindsight it sure looks like they didn’t get nearly enough. Maybe the Twins front office is much smarter than the front offices that acquired these players and there will be less risk.
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arby58 reacted to jorgenswest for a blog entry, Dealing Ryan? Let’s look back at the Berrios deal.
The Twins traded a year of control in the Berrios deal. Some are speculating his trading Ryan and his two additional years of control. What would it take for that deal to work out?
The Twins traded Berrios with the current and next season of control. In those two seasons he gave the Blue Jays 1.5 WAR and -0.6 WAR.
Key elements to the deal
the Twins were clearly out of the playoffs and gave up the one extra year of control with a shot at the playoffs. they acquired two well regarded prospects. Martin had a future value of 50 and Woods Richardson a future value of 45. they replaced Berrios’ salary with Sonny Gray. Their 2022 salary was virtually the same but the Twins also had an additional season of control in 2023. Lopez salary slotted in to that top spot in 2024. The Twins received a comp pick for Gray and used it for Kyle DeBarge. Woods Richardson projected as a back end starter at an FV of 45 has fulfilled that projection thus far. He may outperform that projection if he approaches an average starter. Martin has not yet fulfilled his projection of an average regular.
Overall the Twins maintained that salary slot from Berrios to Gray to an extended Lopez. Had they extended Berrios they probably would not trade for Gray or choose to extend Lopez. The cost for that slot that Lopez now fills was a season of Berrios (replaced by Gray) and Chase Petty a 50 FV prospect. Would they be better off today with an extended Berrios and Chase Petty or an extended Lopez, Woods Richardson, Martin and DeBarge? I think they are better off with that trade.
Matching up the key elements
the Twins would be trading 3 possible playoff seasons of Ryan as opposed to 1. If they play themselves out by the deadline it would be 2. to give up that extra season of control and possibly 3 seasons of playoffs I would hope they would get significantly more than players with an FV of 50 and 45. Ownership needs to be committed to replacing Ryan as they were with Berrios The elements don’t match up yet. They should wait a year and consider dealing Ryan if they are out of contention next year. At that time hopefully the uncertainty of ownership will be cleared up and there will be commitment to replacing Ryan prior to the 2027 season. Better yet let’s hope Ryan is leading them to the playoffs in 2027.
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arby58 reacted to William Malone for a blog entry, Twins single season all-quarter century team
Hello, fellow humans! My name is William Malone IV. Son of William Malone III. And I come with great news! It is 2025! This means a lot of publications are having fun with quarter-century teams for various leagues and franchises. I have decided to join in on the action...but with a twist.
Here is the Twins quarter-century team based on single seasons. Not careers. Make sure to sound off in the comments about what a big stupid dum dum I am when you disagree with the list.
Catcher - 2009 Joe Mauer
AL MVP, All-Star, Silver Slugger, Gold Glove
.365/.444/.587 (1.031)
28 home runs
96 RBI
Joe Mauer had a lot of great seasons. He's one of just two catchers in Major League history to double up on the Silver Slugger and Gold Glove in the same year at least three times (Iván Rodríguez). But this year still stands out above all the rest! Mauer led the American League in average, on-base percentage, and slugging. He won a Gold Glove. And he easily took home AL MVP honors.
First Base - 2006 Justin Morneau
AL MVP, Silver Slugger
.321/.375/.559 (.934)
34 home runs
130 RBI
Winning MVP without being an All-Star is not unheard of, but it's still somewhat rare. Justin Morneau got off to a very slow start in 2006. He was still carrying a sub-.700 OPS on May 8th. The Canadian slugger hit two home runs against the Texas Rangers on May 9th, and never looked back from there. His 130 RBI that season are the second most in Twins history, trailing only 1969 Harmon Killebrew (140).
Second Base - 2017 Brian Dozier
Gold Glove
.271/.359/.498 (.857)
34 home runs
93 RBI
This one might be controversial. A lot of metrics suggest that Brian Dozier was better in 2016. Maybe it's the fact that Minnesota was a much better team in 2017, but his 2017 season just felt better. There was a 19 point year-to-year jump in on-base percentage, which is never a bad thing for your lead-off hitter. Dozier didn't sacrifice that much power in the process, still finishing with 30 doubles and 34 home runs.
Third Base - 2001 Corey Koskie
25th in AL MVP voting
.276/.362/.488 (.850)
26 home runs
103 RBI
Shout out to 2019 Miguel Sanó. He was so good that summer, hitting 34 bombs with a .923 OPS. Bring up juiced balls all you want, but it was still a 139 OPS+ when adjusting to League averages. This Koskie season only came out to a 121 OPS+. But the best ability is still availability, which factored in here. Koskie played 153 games in 2001, while Sanó only played 105 in 2019. Can't forget about defense too.
Shortstop - 2022 Carlos Correa
Led all shortstops in OPS
.291/.366/.467 (.833)
22 home runs
64 RBI
Carlos Correa and Xander Bogaerts co-led all shortstops with an .833 OPS in 2022. They were both a healthy margin over third place Trea Turner (.809). A slow start probably kept Correa out of the All-Star game. His average and on-base percentage were fairly strong throughout the year, but Correa hit 19 of his 22 home runs after June 1st in 2022.
Left Field - 2012 Josh Willingham
Silver Slugger
.260/.366/.524 (.890)
35 home runs
110 RBI
Fans were very upset when the Twins signed Josh Willingham, but it really had nothing to do with Josh Willingham. It was the same off-season where Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel left in free agency. It's natural for the customers to prefer some fan favorites over a journeyman. Willingham helped smooth things over by launching 35 bombs in 2012. He won a Silver Slugger for his efforts.
Center Field - 2002 Torii Hunter
All-Star, Gold Glove
.289/.334/.524 (.858)
29 home runs
94 RBI
Torii Hunter wasn't a standout offensive star throughout his Twins tenure, and he only has a 103 OPS+ with the club. That's the same as Max Kepler. His offense truly came around later on with the Angels, and he was able to win two Silver Sluggers. But 2002 gave a glimpse into what his offensive ceiling was. It was his best offensive season with the Twins, complimented by his legendary defensive abilities.
Right Field - 2019 Max Kepler
20th in AL MVP voting
.252/.326/.519 (.855)
36 home runs
90 RBI
People questioned the usage of Max Kepler as a lead-off hitter entering 2019. They started to question it even more when he began the year in an 0-for-10 skid. These concerns began to die down as Kepler began to heat up at the plate. He finished the year with 36 home runs, 90 RBI and zero errors committed in the field. Kepler also had a higher OPS against lefties than righties, which goes against his career splits.
Designated hitter - 2020 Nelson Cruz
Silver Slugger
.303/.397/.595 (.992)
16 home runs
33 RBI
This one is probably going to be controversial. The rate stats were a bit lower in 2020, but they were better compared to league averages with an un-juiced baseball. Cruz had a higher OPS+ in 2020, compared to 2019. His full season pace was 43 home runs, two more than he hit in 2019. Granted, Cruz missed some time with a wrist injury in 2019. He was also not available to start National League games. The DH was universal in 2020. This allowed Cruz to play in a higher percentage of games.
Starting Pitcher - 2004 Johan Santana
AL Cy Young
20-6, 2.61 ERA
Earlier in this lovely blog post, you read about Justin Morneau and his slow start in 2006. The same thing happened to Johan Santana in 2004. He finished May with a 5.61 ERA through 11 starts, and still wound up having the best year of a career filled with several fantastic seasons. Santana had a 1.51 ERA over his final 23 starts, surrendering only two runs in six September starts.
Relief Pitcher - 2006 Joe Nathan
5th in AL Cy Young voting
7-0, 1.58 ERA, 36-for-38 saves
The Twins were 58-6 when Joe Nathan pitched in 2006. And five of them were just appearances to get the guy some work. They were down by three or more runs by the time he entered those games. The sixth loss came when he pitched a shutout ninth inning in a tie game on July 28th, and they wound up losing in extras. Minnesota actually wound up winning the two games where Nathan was charged with a "blown save."
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arby58 reacted to William Malone for a blog entry, Naming the best player drafted by the Twins in every round
Hello, fellow humans! My name is William Malone IV. Son of William Malone III. And I come with great news! The Minnesota Twins had a wonderful game this week featuring only prospects. Many of these prospects were acquired through a magical process wildly known as the MLB Draft.
The MLB Draft is only 20 round these days, but it used to have an infinite number of rounds. Teams would keep picking for as long as they wanted, and then drop out once they were happy with who they had. The Minnesota Twins have stuck around in this process for as many as 60 rounds, getting that deep in 1993. Their second longest draft was 59 rounds in 1989.
So who are the best players taken in each of these 60 rounds? Here is your answer! In years where none of the players reached the Majors, it is left blank.
1st round Joe Mauer
It's hard to beat a first ballot Hall of Fame player who you take with the first overall pick. Mauer won three batting titles, to go along with five Silver Sluggers and three Gold Gloves at catcher.
2nd Round Frank Viola
The 1987 World Series MVP followed that up by winning AL Cy Young in 1988. He was a three time All-Star, who had nice tenures with both the Twins and New York Mets.
3rd Round Bert Blyleven
Minnesota also used a third round pick on 2006 AL MVP Justin Morneau, but you can't go wrong with the Hall of Fame pitcher. It took awhile for Blyleven to get induced, but the resume was always obvious. He ranks fifth all-time in strikeouts, and ninth in shutouts.
4th Round Graig Nettles
Sadly, almost all of his big league success came away from the Twin Cities. He was traded to Cleveland just 121 games into his big league career, and blossomed into a six time All-Star. Nettles won the World Series in 1977 and 1978 with the New York Yankees, also winning ALCS MVP in 1981.
5th Round Dave Goltz
Goltz was a solid starting pitcher in the league for a decade, and was a 20 game winner for the Twins in 1977. He won a World Series with the Dodgers in 1981.
6th Round Pat Neshek
The electric sidearm reliever had some great seasons with the Twins early in his career, but he underwent Tommy John surgery in 2009 and struggled upon returning in 2010. It took him a few years, and a few stops with other clubs, to find his form again. But he eventually began to dominate again, making All-Star appearances in 2014 and 2017.
7th Round LaTroy Hawkins
He certainly had a long career, and it came with many great years too. Hawkins was a bullpen staple for the Twins in the early Ron Gardenhire years, often setting up closer Eddie Guardado. He played for 11 teams in his 21 Major League seasons.
8th Round Brad Radke
One of Tom Kelly or Ron Gardenhire handed the ball to Radke on Opening Day nine times, which is the most Opening Day starts in Twins history. He finished third in the 1997 AL Cy Young voting.
9th Round Mitch Garver
The Bomba Squad wouldn't have been complete without Garver, who hit 31 home runs in 2019 and won a Silver Slugger. His career has been filled with many ups and downs. Some good stretches, some bad stretches, and some stretches where he's the best hitting catcher in baseball.
10th Round Marty Cordova
Steve Braun and Jeff Reboulet were ten round picks of the Twins who had longer careers, but Marty Cordova had a solid peak. He won AL Rookie of the Year in 1996, and followed that up with a 111 RBI season in 1997. There were a few other solid seasons sprinkled in after that.
11th Round Taylor Rogers
Rogers had a 3.15 ERA across six seasons as bullpen mainstay for the Twins. They traded him to San Diego for Chris Paddack and Emilio Pagan, where he had a nightmare season. Things have gotten a little better for him since moving onto San Francisco.
12th Round Jason Kubel
Bailey Ober might have this spot soon. You could even argue he should have it now, as his career WAR has already surpassed Kubel. But we'll give respect to the man who hit a billion clutch grand slams for the Twins.
13th Round Matt Lawton
He was a very good right fielder for several bad Twins teams in the late 90's, but he was never able to enjoy their early 2000's success after getting traded to the New York Mets for Rick Reed at the 2001 deadline.
14th Round Mike Trombley
After struggling as a starter early in his career, Trombley became a reliable middle reliever who had a nice 11-year big league career.
15th Round Rick Dempsey
Remember Graig Nettles from earlier in this list? Dempsey is another guy who had a lot of success after getting traded away from Minnesota. He was World Series MVP with the Orioles in 1983.
16th Round Kolten Wong
Wong is the first of several players on this list who never played for the Twins. Minnesota drafted him out of high school, but he didn't sign and chose to play at the University of Hawaii. After a stellar college career, St. Louis drafted Wong in the first round.
17th Round Kent Hrbek
It's always cool to draft a franchise legend in round 17. It's even cooler when he's a Minnesota native.
18th Round Edouard Julien
The Twins are hoping that Julien can become a mainstay for the club. He got off to a great start in 2023, before undergoing a rough sophomore season in the bigs.
19th Round Danny Valencia
Fans might've been hoping for more after Valencia finished third in the 2010 AL Rookie of the Year voting, but he still had a respectable nine year career. Most of it was spent as a platoon bat.
20th Round Damian Miller
Arizona swiped Miller from the Twins in the 1998 expansion draft. He was their starting catcher when they won the World Series in 2001, and an All-Star in 2002.
21st Round Eddie Guardado
Round 21 helped the Twins build a huge chunk of their early 2000's bullpen, given them Eddie Guardado and J.C. Romero. Guardado did have the better overall career, and is in the Twins Hall of Fame.
22nd Round Trevor Hildenberger
The sidearm slinging righty had a great rookie season for the Twins in 2017, giving them big relief appearances during a tight playoff race. But he was never able to repeat that season.
23rd Round Willie Eyre
We're reaching a point where some of these rounds don't have much to choose from. Eyre made 42 relief appearances for the Twins in 2006, and 69 others for the Orioles and Rangers after that.
24th Round Juan Padilla
Padilla was the player to be named later sent to the New York Yankees for Jesse Orosco in an August wavier trade during the 2003 season. He made 42 career relief appearances for the Yankees, Mets and Reds.
25th Round Taylor Hearn
Hearn never signed with the Twins after getting drafted in the 25th round, and he was taken by the Nationals in the fifth round one year later. He's made 101 big league pitching appearances for the Rangers, Royals and Braves.
26th Round Corey Koskie
The newest Twins Hall of Fame member began his professional baseball career by getting taken in round 26.
27th Round Scott Stahoviak
Minnesota took Stahoviak out of Creighton with their first round choice in 1991. They had previously drafted him out of high school in round 25, but he obviously chose to play in college.
28th Round Bret Boone
He chose to attend USC instead of signing with the Twins as a 28th round pick. Boone wound up having an excellent career, winning four Gold Gloves and two Silver Sluggers. While he opted against starting his professional career with the Twins, he did end things in Minnesota with a 14 game stint in 2005,
29th Round Nick Blackburn
"Big Game Blackburn" often showed up for the Twins when they needed him most. He had a stellar performance in the 2008 AL Central Tiebreaker Game, only to have his offense provide no run support. His final three starts of 2009 were all seven inning gems, allowing three total runs in those appearances. Each one of these was vital to the Twins forcing a second straight game 163.
30th Round Michael Tonkin
15 years later and he's still on the Twins. There have been a lot of stops in the middle though.
31st Round Mike Lamb
Lamb is another late round pick who the Twins didn't sign. He was a seventh round pick of the Rangers a few years later, and eventually made it back to the Twins for a brief stint as their third baseman in 2008. Lamb was the Astros starting first baseman in the 2005 World Series.
32nd Round Matt Wallner
Minnesota selected Matt Wallner in 2016 out of Forest Lake High School, and listed him as a pitcher on their draft card. While he continued to play two ways in college, they drafted him out of Southern Mississippi a few years later as an outfielder.
33rd Round Nick Punto
We've seen it a few times already, but these late round picks who don't sign have a funny way of making it back to the Twins. Punto was re-drafted by the Phillies a year after declining to sign in Minnesota, only to become a fan favorite at the Metrodome.
34th Round Tim Davis
Davis didn't sign with the Twins, and was later re-drafted by Seattle. He pitched 122.2 innings for the Mariners, posting 4.62 career ERA.
35th Round Josh Bard
For the first time, we have a "by default" winner. Josh Bard is the only 35th round pick in Twins history to reach the Majors. He never spent a day in the Twins organization though, getting re-drafted by the Rockies later on.
36th Round J.D. Martinez
When he was re-drafted by the Houston Astros three years later out of Division II Nova Southeastern, it was only in round 20. Martinez went onto become a six time All-Star and three time Silver Slugger winner, helping Boston win the World Series in 2018.
37th Round Aaron Sele
Do you want to know how awesome steroids were? Sele finished fifth in the 1999 AL Cy Young voting with a 4.79 ERA. Just think about how much offense there was back in the steroid era.
38th Round Gary Matthews Jr.
After not signing with the Twins and later getting re-drafted, Matthews Jr had a very nice career. He played 12 years for seven different teams, and was an All-Star in 2006.
39th Round Brain Lawrence
He pitched five years for the Padres in the early-2000's, owning a 4.19 ERA across 152 big league starts.
40th Round Chase Anderson
Chase Anderson was re-drafted by the Arizona Diamondbacks in the ninth round two years later, and has played 11 years in the big leagues for nine different teams.
41st Round Brian Raabe
The University of Minnesota product played 17 big league games for the Twins, Rockies and Mariners.
42nd Round Chase Anderson
Yes, he was drafted by the Twins twice. They also failed to sign him both times.
43rd Round Jason Vargas
Vargas was an All-Star in 2017, and pitched for six teams in a 14-year career. None of those teams were the Twins.
44th Round Bob Gebhard
He made 30 relief appearances for the Twins over parts of two seasons. His ERA was 6.00.
45th Round Steve Pearce
The 2018 World Series MVP did not sign after Minnesota used a 45th round pick on him. He was briefly in the Twins organization on a minor league contracts during spring training in 2012, but he was released after not breaking camp with the club.
46th Round A.J. Achter
Minnesota signed Achter as a 45th round pick in 2010, and he reached the Majors with them in 2014. His big league career was 45 relief appearances with the Twins and Angels, boasting a 3.92 ERA.
47th Round Chris Heston
His career didn't start with the Twins, because he didn't sign with them as a 47th round pick. But his career ended in 2017 with a single relief appearance for the Twins. In between all of this, he did throw a no-hitter for the Giants.
48th Round George Springer
Another late round future World Series MVP who was drafted by the Twins, but did not sign. The New Britain native often went to Rock Cats games growing up, watching many future Twins as prospects. Springer opted to play college ball at UConn, and became a first round pick.
49th Round Brock Peterson
The Twins actually did sign Peterson, but he never reached the Majors with them. He stayed in their system from 2003 until 2010, reaching Triple-A. Peterson then played a few years of independent ball, finally reaching the Majors in 2013 with the St. Louis Cardinals.
50th Round Tyler Anderson
A 50th round pick of the Twins out of high school, Anderson went to Oregon and became a first round pick Rockies three years later. He is a two time All-Star, and currently pitches for the Angels.
51st Round
52nd Round Denny Hocking
Hell of a career for a catcher drafted out of a JUCO school. He spent 13-years in the big leagues playing almost everything but catcher. 11 of those seasons came with the Twins. He is the lowest drafted Twins player, signed or unsigned by the club, to reach the Majors.
53rd Round
54th Round
55th Round
56th Round
57th Round
58th Round
59th Round
60th Round
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arby58 reacted to LA Vikes Fan for a blog entry, Who Says No To The Athletic's Proposed Twins Trade For Alonso - I DO!
The Athletic just published an article about "FIve Trades I'd Like To See" before the MLB trade deadline. One of them involved the Twins trading for Pete Alonso:
Twins get: Pete Alonso
Mets get: Alex Kirilloff, David Festa, Luke Keaschall
I for one would be very irritated if the Twins made this trade. Let's start with what we get. Pete Alonso is a great hitter and would be a great fit in the middle of our lineup for the next two or three months. After that, he is going to a high revenue team for 2025 and beyond, most likely returning to the Mets. He likes it there, he likes New York, and it's only a matter of whether they will pony up the money. If the Mets won't pony up the money, another East Coast team will. I have to think the Yankees are looking for a first basemen for next season given Anthony Rizzo's struggles. Alonso is the very definition of a short term one season rental. And that's before we think about whether ownership would be willing to part with the about $8 million he still owed for the rest of the 2024 season.
Now let's think about what we would give up. I am down on Kirilloff as are many others, but he still has high end upside. I wouldn't mind using him as part of a trade given his redundancy with Larnach and Wallner (I think Miranda has won the first base job starting next season unless he falls off the table), but not when you have to give up two quality pieces to go with him. Festa is probably our best starting pitching prospect and certainly the one closest to the Majors. Keaschall is only 21 and looks to have some real upside in the middle infield. That's important when we remember that Correa is only going to be the starting SS for another 3-4 years, when he will age out. Lewis' knee injuries probably leave him at 3B for the foreseeable future. Lee or Keaschall may be the Shortstop starting in 2026 or 2027. Way too big a package for two or three months of Pete Alonso, way too much. I might give up one of the three as long as it wasn't Festa plus a less heralded prospect or two like Schobel or Rosario, but not the three listed.
My conclusion is this is classic clickbait from a New York homer wanting to improve his team. What say each of you?
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arby58 reacted to stringer bell for a blog entry, Finding a Jewel in the Ruins
I have speculated that if the Twins acquire a starting pitcher, he won’t clearly be seen as a top 50 or 60 starter. I would think the guy will be either unproven, an injury risk or coming off a disappointing or unproductive season. Further, I think most teams are placing a high price on pitching, particularly guys under team control.
Teams that have no real hope of contending should be a little more willing to part with starters under team control because by the time they expect to contend, guys in the majors will have moved on. In addition, bad teams might have pitchers whose stats look worse because they are playing for a bad team. Maybe a bad bullpen allowing lots of inherited runners to score, perhaps bad defense behind him or instances where the manager had no choice but to let a team put up crooked numbers because there was nobody available in the bullpen.
There were four 100-loss teams in 2023. Two of them were in the AL Central and thus would be unlikely to deal with the Twins. The other two teams are Oakland and Colorado. In exploring the pitching staffs for those two teams, my first thought was ugh!, there just isn't anything there. However, in looking a little deeper, I found one guy from each staff to consider. From Colorado, Austin Gomber was 29 last year and pitched 139 innings, he is a lefty, something I think the Twins would like to have in their rotation. In looking at Gomber's home-road splits, he compiled a 3.68 ERA on the road, away from Coors Field. I don't know anything about his injury history, but acquiring the road Austin Gomber for prospects might be something to consider. It appears that Coors messes with a lot of pitchers' heads and adjustments made in the high altitude diminish effectiveness when the pitcher is at a normal altitude.
From Oakland, I nominate JP Sears. Similar to Gomber, he is a lefty in his late 20s. He worked over 170 innings last year and while his numbers weren't good overall, he seems to have worn down over the course of the year and perhaps the wearing down was exacerbated by being on a terrible team. His first half ERA was 3.97 with a 1.044 WHIP. and over 8 Ks per nine innings pitched. The walks and hits soared in the second half, so I will speculate he did wear out. He's not a big guy--5'11"180 lbs.--and this was his first full year of the major leagues. Also, I have to suspect that his manager was forced to work him longer in games because of the rest of the pitching staff being pretty awful. The coming season might allow Sears to handle additional work better and the Twins probably would be better suited to conserve his innings pitched.
I know very little about either pitcher mentioned other than a quick look at BBRef. For all I know, either or both could already be scheduled for major surgery, but I do think looking for an undervalued asset on a bad team is one way to get value.
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arby58 got a reaction from Oldgoat_MN for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from TopGunn#22 for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from Karbo for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from ToddlerHarmon for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from RpR for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from ashbury for a blog entry, Twins Starting Pitching Stats That Will Never be Surpassed
Awhile back, I was working on a post (still working on it) to identify the greatest season by a Twins starting pitcher. I still haven't entirely decided on that one, but after going through the starting pitching stats for every year since the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins (in other words, since 1961) there were a couple of fascinating finds - stats that I doubt will ever be surpassed.
Combined Wins and Losses in a Season
The Twins record for most wins in a season was Jim Kaat's 25 in 1965. Back then, there was only one Cy Young for all of MLB, and Sandy Koufax was the unanimous winner after compiling a phenomenal set of stats: 26-8 record, 2.04 ERA, 160 ERA+, 9 shutouts, and 382 strikeouts in 335.2 innings pitched. Wow. Kaat also set another mark that I doubt will be surpassed, particularly in today's baseball: along with the 25 wins, he also accumulated 13 losses, and those 38 combined results should stand the test of time. It's notable that close behind was Bert Blyleven, with 37, and Jim Perry with 36.
Innings Pitched and Shutouts in a Season
These records are also safe, given the specialized nature of pitching these days. For innings pitched, these days 200 is considered a full season - but the Twins have had three pitchers surpass 300 innings - Bert Blyleven had 325 in the 1973 season, Jim Kaat had 304.2 in 1966, and Dave Goltz had 303 in 1977. Nowadays, pitchers get huzzahs for just a handful of complete games, let alone shutouts, but in that 1973 season, Blyleven had 9 shutouts, far and away the best ever for a Twins pitcher.
Workhorse Pitcher Season for the Ages
Bert's 1973 season was phenomenal in many respects. On a 81-81 team, he went 20-17, but the other stats are eye openers (including innings pitched and shutouts, already mentioned). His 2.52 season ERA was third best ever among Twins starting pitchers (and those who knew that Camilo Pascual is first with 2.46 take a bow. Yes, Jim Kaat was 2.06 in 1972, but he only started 15 games so that doesn't count - same with strike or pandemic-shortened seasons). Speaking of complete games, Bert also had 25 that year, which is also far and away the best by a Twins pitcher. His 258 strikeouts are also the second most, trailing only Johan Santana's 265 in 2004. On top of that, his ERA+ of 156 was fifth best all time for a Twins starting pitcher. Quite a year!
Best Two Combined Seasons
This one could someday be overcome (give it your best shot, Pablo) but I doubt it. It is also debatable, as Frank Viola and Jim Perry both won a Cy Young and also put together another strong year. Still, this one belongs to Johan Santana. Not only did he win the Cy Young in both 2004 and 2006, he also had the two best ERA+ years, at 182(!) in 2004 and 162 in 2006. As previously mentioned, he put up the biggest strikeout total in 2004 and had an ERA of 2.61 and 2.71 in 2004 and 2006 respectively. Besides that, 20-6 and 19-6 win-loss records weren't too shabby either.
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arby58 got a reaction from Oldgoat_MN for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from mikelink45 for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from TopGunn#22 for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from In My La Z boy for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from ToddlerHarmon for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from gman for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from Karbo for a blog entry, Greatest Twins Individual Offensive Season Ever?
The Twins arrived in Minnesota in 1960, and I have been a close follower since about 1967. As a kid, I was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan and attended many games where his home runs were the highlight of the day. I also got to see one of the great on-base hitting machines of that era, Rod Carew. They were far different players, but they produced, in my opinion, the two greatest offensive seasons in Twins history, and both were named American League MVP for them - Killebrew in 1969, and Carew in 1977.
What is interesting about those two seasons is how different they were, in terms of the statistics where they excelled - and yet how close they came in a statistic that I believe captures the value of both getting on base and doing it in an impactful way - OPS. For comparison purposes, those grand seasons result in what is, statistically speaking, pretty much a dead heat: Carew's OPS was 1.019, and Killebrew's was 1.011.
So, who had the better season? Carew put up an other-worldly batting average - .388. He also led the league - by a mile - in runs scored, with 128. Unlike most years, he also drove in 100 runs and hit 14 home runs. His .570 slugging percentage was, by far the best of his career. He also had an incredible OPS+ of 178.
The MVP balloting was interesting: Carew was first on only 12 of 28 ballots. Second was Al Cowens of KC, who had an OPS of .885 and scored 30 less runs while hitting .312 with 23 HR and 112 RBI. He got 4 first place votes - how that is even possible must relate to the fact that the Royals won 102 games, the most in the AL that year. The smattering of other first place votes suggests to me that the voters still favored 'headline stats' like HR and RBI, even in the face of clearly superior overall results.
As for Killebrew, he never hit for average like Carew. In fact, his highest batting average in a full season was .288. However, he did hit 573 home runs and drove in 1,584 RBI. It is notable that his lifetime OPS was .884, and his OPS+ 143. Carew's numbers were .822 and 131. That said, this isn't about career, it is about the year.
In 1969, Killebrew tied his career mark in HRs with 49 and set his mark with 140 RBIs. What set the season apart was the fact he also drew a league leading 145 walks. Even though his batting average was just .276, he had a .427 OBP. It wasn't Carew's .449, but it wasn't that far off.
Killebrew was a much more clear-cut winner for the AL MVP that year, with 16 first place votes, while the second place finisher, Boog Powell, had 6. It's notable that the 1969 Orioles won 109 games and their division, while the Twins won 97 and their division - and the Orioles dispatched the Twins in three straight before losing the World Series in 5 games to the Mets.
I have a hard time choosing between the two. Carew was a hit or two everyday, and that year his hits were more impactful than most years. Killebrew hit home runs and drove in runs at the highest level, and he also got on base a lot. That said, Carew still had a (slightly) higher OPS. I watched both seasons very closely. I think Carew's flirting with .400 - in a way that hasn't really been challenged since - gives him a slight nod here. That said, it is very slight.
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arby58 got a reaction from tarheeltwinsfan for a blog entry, Batting Average is the worst offensive statistic in baseball
As a kid, I remember looking at batting average as the key to the value of a player. OK, not every player, as I was a Harmon Killebrew fan, and he never really hit for average. That should have alerted me to the fact that not all base hits are created equal - and those that sail over the fences are far more valuable than a single to center field.
There are a lot of people who complain about trading away last year's AL batting champion, Louis Arreaz. That said, while he hits for a very high average, just how impactful is he? I would argue not that impactful.
Let's compare two players so far this year - and they are night and day difference makers. Introducing Joey Gallo.
Gallo is an all or nothing player offensively. He strikes out a lot, but when he gets hit, he hits the ball hard. Many of those get out of the ballpark or at least produce extra base hits.
Arraez is the oppposite - he doesn't really hit the ball hard, but he gets a lot of base hits. Through tonight, his batting average is a gaudy .379. By contrast, Gallo is at .209.
So who is more effective? I would argue it is about a wash, and, given the many more at bats for Arraez, Gallo is more impactful
In 132 at bats, Arraez has scored just 14 runs. That is largely because it takes a lot to score a run when you just hit a single or walk, and that is what Arraez mostly does. With 132 at bats, Arraez' 50 hits are mostly singles (7 doubles, 1 triple, 1 home run), so his OPS is.905. That's pretty good, but remember the runs scored thing.
In just 86 at bats, Gallo has scored 16 runs, and has a similar .903 OPS. The difference is he drives the ball - he has 18 hits, and nearly all are extra base hits (5 doubles, 1 triple, and 8 home runs). So Gallo is hitting .209, and Arraez is hitting .379 - but the impact factors in baseball suggest Gallo has been more valuable offensively.
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arby58 got a reaction from TwinsRealist for a blog entry, Batting Average is the worst offensive statistic in baseball
As a kid, I remember looking at batting average as the key to the value of a player. OK, not every player, as I was a Harmon Killebrew fan, and he never really hit for average. That should have alerted me to the fact that not all base hits are created equal - and those that sail over the fences are far more valuable than a single to center field.
There are a lot of people who complain about trading away last year's AL batting champion, Louis Arreaz. That said, while he hits for a very high average, just how impactful is he? I would argue not that impactful.
Let's compare two players so far this year - and they are night and day difference makers. Introducing Joey Gallo.
Gallo is an all or nothing player offensively. He strikes out a lot, but when he gets hit, he hits the ball hard. Many of those get out of the ballpark or at least produce extra base hits.
Arraez is the oppposite - he doesn't really hit the ball hard, but he gets a lot of base hits. Through tonight, his batting average is a gaudy .379. By contrast, Gallo is at .209.
So who is more effective? I would argue it is about a wash, and, given the many more at bats for Arraez, Gallo is more impactful
In 132 at bats, Arraez has scored just 14 runs. That is largely because it takes a lot to score a run when you just hit a single or walk, and that is what Arraez mostly does. With 132 at bats, Arraez' 50 hits are mostly singles (7 doubles, 1 triple, 1 home run), so his OPS is.905. That's pretty good, but remember the runs scored thing.
In just 86 at bats, Gallo has scored 16 runs, and has a similar .903 OPS. The difference is he drives the ball - he has 18 hits, and nearly all are extra base hits (5 doubles, 1 triple, and 8 home runs). So Gallo is hitting .209, and Arraez is hitting .379 - but the impact factors in baseball suggest Gallo has been more valuable offensively.
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arby58 got a reaction from Aerodeliria for a blog entry, Batting Average is the worst offensive statistic in baseball
As a kid, I remember looking at batting average as the key to the value of a player. OK, not every player, as I was a Harmon Killebrew fan, and he never really hit for average. That should have alerted me to the fact that not all base hits are created equal - and those that sail over the fences are far more valuable than a single to center field.
There are a lot of people who complain about trading away last year's AL batting champion, Louis Arreaz. That said, while he hits for a very high average, just how impactful is he? I would argue not that impactful.
Let's compare two players so far this year - and they are night and day difference makers. Introducing Joey Gallo.
Gallo is an all or nothing player offensively. He strikes out a lot, but when he gets hit, he hits the ball hard. Many of those get out of the ballpark or at least produce extra base hits.
Arraez is the oppposite - he doesn't really hit the ball hard, but he gets a lot of base hits. Through tonight, his batting average is a gaudy .379. By contrast, Gallo is at .209.
So who is more effective? I would argue it is about a wash, and, given the many more at bats for Arraez, Gallo is more impactful
In 132 at bats, Arraez has scored just 14 runs. That is largely because it takes a lot to score a run when you just hit a single or walk, and that is what Arraez mostly does. With 132 at bats, Arraez' 50 hits are mostly singles (7 doubles, 1 triple, 1 home run), so his OPS is.905. That's pretty good, but remember the runs scored thing.
In just 86 at bats, Gallo has scored 16 runs, and has a similar .903 OPS. The difference is he drives the ball - he has 18 hits, and nearly all are extra base hits (5 doubles, 1 triple, and 8 home runs). So Gallo is hitting .209, and Arraez is hitting .379 - but the impact factors in baseball suggest Gallo has been more valuable offensively.
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arby58 got a reaction from specialiststeve for a blog entry, Batting Average is the worst offensive statistic in baseball
As a kid, I remember looking at batting average as the key to the value of a player. OK, not every player, as I was a Harmon Killebrew fan, and he never really hit for average. That should have alerted me to the fact that not all base hits are created equal - and those that sail over the fences are far more valuable than a single to center field.
There are a lot of people who complain about trading away last year's AL batting champion, Louis Arreaz. That said, while he hits for a very high average, just how impactful is he? I would argue not that impactful.
Let's compare two players so far this year - and they are night and day difference makers. Introducing Joey Gallo.
Gallo is an all or nothing player offensively. He strikes out a lot, but when he gets hit, he hits the ball hard. Many of those get out of the ballpark or at least produce extra base hits.
Arraez is the oppposite - he doesn't really hit the ball hard, but he gets a lot of base hits. Through tonight, his batting average is a gaudy .379. By contrast, Gallo is at .209.
So who is more effective? I would argue it is about a wash, and, given the many more at bats for Arraez, Gallo is more impactful
In 132 at bats, Arraez has scored just 14 runs. That is largely because it takes a lot to score a run when you just hit a single or walk, and that is what Arraez mostly does. With 132 at bats, Arraez' 50 hits are mostly singles (7 doubles, 1 triple, 1 home run), so his OPS is.905. That's pretty good, but remember the runs scored thing.
In just 86 at bats, Gallo has scored 16 runs, and has a similar .903 OPS. The difference is he drives the ball - he has 18 hits, and nearly all are extra base hits (5 doubles, 1 triple, and 8 home runs). So Gallo is hitting .209, and Arraez is hitting .379 - but the impact factors in baseball suggest Gallo has been more valuable offensively.
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arby58 got a reaction from rwilfong86 for a blog entry, Batting Average is the worst offensive statistic in baseball
As a kid, I remember looking at batting average as the key to the value of a player. OK, not every player, as I was a Harmon Killebrew fan, and he never really hit for average. That should have alerted me to the fact that not all base hits are created equal - and those that sail over the fences are far more valuable than a single to center field.
There are a lot of people who complain about trading away last year's AL batting champion, Louis Arreaz. That said, while he hits for a very high average, just how impactful is he? I would argue not that impactful.
Let's compare two players so far this year - and they are night and day difference makers. Introducing Joey Gallo.
Gallo is an all or nothing player offensively. He strikes out a lot, but when he gets hit, he hits the ball hard. Many of those get out of the ballpark or at least produce extra base hits.
Arraez is the oppposite - he doesn't really hit the ball hard, but he gets a lot of base hits. Through tonight, his batting average is a gaudy .379. By contrast, Gallo is at .209.
So who is more effective? I would argue it is about a wash, and, given the many more at bats for Arraez, Gallo is more impactful
In 132 at bats, Arraez has scored just 14 runs. That is largely because it takes a lot to score a run when you just hit a single or walk, and that is what Arraez mostly does. With 132 at bats, Arraez' 50 hits are mostly singles (7 doubles, 1 triple, 1 home run), so his OPS is.905. That's pretty good, but remember the runs scored thing.
In just 86 at bats, Gallo has scored 16 runs, and has a similar .903 OPS. The difference is he drives the ball - he has 18 hits, and nearly all are extra base hits (5 doubles, 1 triple, and 8 home runs). So Gallo is hitting .209, and Arraez is hitting .379 - but the impact factors in baseball suggest Gallo has been more valuable offensively.

