Twins Game Recap (8/11): Frustrating Loss Marred by Heartbreaking Moments

It's not as if Gardy had a lot of options that year though, especially after Johan exited early in game 1. Rincon wasn't that good yet, and Romero had a tough year. That pen was basically Hawkins and Guardado (and Guardado gave up runs in both of his appearances too).

As Tom Kelly said in defense of having Straker on the playoff roster in 87, Rincon and Romero were two guys who helped get them there.

Honest question- why does everyone talk about this "window" opening? My comment is not aimed at this particular post/author, a number of people are talking about it. 

 

Schoop, Cron, Cruz, Perez, Odorizzi, Pineda and Castro could all be gone after this season (Cruz and Cron will likely re-sign, but they aren't young cornerstones).

 

Polanco started hot, now is trailing off. Berrios is trending in the wrong direction. Buxton can't stay on the field. Sano is a crapshoot from game-to-game. 

 

Sure, all of Graterol, Alcala, Balazovic, Kiriloff, Larnach etc could all pan out and we could have a great team, but it's not likely. 

 

This was the year, all the stuff the FO threw at the wall offensively worked better than they could have imagined, and they needed arms. They chose not to do anything at all during the offseason, then whined that the price was too high at the deadline. 

 

I guess I don't fully understand the narrative that this team has a ton of pieces in place to be some sort of great team for the next decade. 

True, but remember Gardenhire kept getting the team into the playoffs in spite of rapid roster turnover like this. Of course, those teams played defense....

I think this team is on the cusp of putting together a few good years. Next year could be a step back, but the year after won't. Players clearly like Baldelli and for a rookie manager he has not made as many mistakes as one might expect.

I don't think it's fair to call Romero a lefty specialist. Both him and Rincon were the best setup pitchers I ever saw in a Twins uniform. Seeing them come up to pitch the 8th was almost always a good sign.

Though, yes, I think they were both juicing....

Are we sure Scottie Ullger didn't take over coaching 3rd base in that 9th inning?

The weekend series clarified things for the Twins. Cleveland is the better team because of its superior pitching. It lost three starters -- Kluber, Carrasco, and Bauer -- and got better in the process. (Imagine if the Twins had lost three starters.)

The Twins are likely to be a wild card team and rather quickly ousted. The clarity achieved is this: A big upgrade in starting pitching is needed for next season. 

And let us remember to put all this in context: The Twins are 24 games over .500 and right now we're all kind of disappointed.

The Twins are likely to be a wild card team and rather quickly ousted. The clarity achieved is this: A big upgrade in starting pitching is needed for next season.

If Houston gets the top seed, a wildcard berth is the best scenario for the Twins.

If the Yankees get the top seed, which suddenly seems very possible, then the Twins had better take care of the division.

 

I think this team is on the cusp of putting together a few good years. Next year could be a step back, but the year after won't. Players clearly like Baldelli and for a rookie manager he has not made as many mistakes as one might expect.

So, what makes you think that next year is a step back and the year after won't be?

The pitching coming up? Because as of now, our minor leagues has produced Berrios and that's about it really. You know they won't trade for anyone, or buy a good starter, right? I think this year was the year and their chance. Do I think we could still be good for a few years? Heck yeah, they should be. But I don't think you will have this kind of offense again, maybe ever. Realize, what the Twins are doing this year with the bat is historic for this franchise. 

Actually it’s about 65-70% likely that they score a run with runners on second and third with one out. The average run expectancy with that situation is 1.4 runs.

Perhaps, but that assumes an average player was up next and not Jonathon "Clutch" Schoop. There is an 80% chance he would have struck out or popped up.

With 2 outs, I have absolutely zero problems with Diaz sending Adrianza there. The only issue I have was that there was just 1 out.

 

That said, you all can blame Diaz all you want. I personally blame yesterday's loss on Taylor Rogers. He's been great this year, and maybe he was over-worked, but if you give up 4 runs in 1/3 of an inning in a huge game, you failed. An absolutely dud of an effort by Rogers, who deservedly got the loss.

Really??

You’re going to lay blame on a guy who was brought in less than 18 hours after throwing 30 plus extremely high leverage pitches?

REALLY?

Maybe assign some blame to those responsible for the team being forced to do that.

Ok, it looks like it's almost unanimous that Diaz blundered on the send. I agree. But his call was in the heat of the moment and mistakes happen, so I give him a begrudging pass. But I'm wondering if anyone else here was at the game, and if so, why Tommy Watkins isn't being criticized too. With the shift on, Cleveland's first baseman was 25 feet off the bag. But for some unexplainable reason, Adrianza's lead on every pitch during Gonzalez's AB was only about half that. My group of four was screaming at Ehire to get a more aggressive lead, but we were in the third base boxes and the crowd was loud, so he stayed with his insufficient lead. If Adrianza had been properly leading off with the first baseman so far off the bag, he likely scores on the double even with the Tribe playing perfect defense...especially with the very high bounce the ball took off the fence. Shame on Ehire for not reading the situation better, and shame on Tommy Watkins for not doing his job. The first base coach is responsible for almost nothing except monitoring the baserunner's lead, and instead of doing that he is facing Gonzalez and clapping for him.

 

Yes, Diaz made a bad call, but Watkins and Ehire's blunder is equally at fault for this loss.

How is another 10 foot lead going to prevent him from being thrown out by 40 feet? He'd have just been out by 30 feet instead.

Honest question- why does everyone talk about this "window" opening? My comment is not aimed at this particular post/author, a number of people are talking about it.

 

Schoop, Cron, Cruz, Perez, Odorizzi, Pineda and Castro could all be gone after this season (Cruz and Cron will likely re-sign, but they aren't young cornerstones).

 

Polanco started hot, now is trailing off. Berrios is trending in the wrong direction. Buxton can't stay on the field. Sano is a crapshoot from game-to-game.

 

Sure, all of Graterol, Alcala, Balazovic, Kiriloff, Larnach etc could all pan out and we could have a great team, but it's not likely.

 

This was the year, all the stuff the FO threw at the wall offensively worked better than they could have imagined, and they needed arms. They chose not to do anything at all during the offseason, then whined that the price was too high at the deadline.

 

I guess I don't fully understand the narrative that this team has a ton of pieces in place to be some sort of great team for the next decade.

Cruz is under team control for 2020, as is Cron.

So, what makes you think that next year is a step back and the year after won't be?

 

The pitching coming up? Because as of now, our minor leagues has produced Berrios and that's about it really. You know they won't trade for anyone, or buy a good starter, right? I think this year was the year and their chance. Do I think we could still be good for a few years? Heck yeah, they should be. But I don't think you will have this kind of offense again, maybe ever. Realize, what the Twins are doing this year with the bat is historic for this franchise. 

Yes, I think it might take more than one year to get the pitching in order unless the Twins very uncharacteristically open their wallets.

If the Twins had addressed the bullpen this year, they would only have to address the starting pitching next year. However, the Twins neglected to do that and will now have to address both.

The Twins showed they can win without Sano, so he could be a nice trade chip.

You keep saying this. I think the Twins match up much better against the Yankees than the Astros. At least as far as the Twins batters vs the opponents pitching.

I will say what I said on this website before the Twins played the Yankees in their last wild card game: The Twins can only beat the Yankees in the playoffs if it's a low scoring game and the Twins squeak out a run or two at the very end. If there is early scoring and it becomes a bullpen game, forget about it.

If you recall this is exactly what happened, and it's what will happen again.

The Twins fared very well against Houston this year, probably better than they have against any other playoff team. The Twins can beat them.

How is another 10 foot lead going to prevent him from being thrown out by 40 feet? He'd have just been out by 30 feet instead.

You need to look at the still shots of the play in this thread.  The ball hasn't quite gotten to the catcher's glove, and if Adrianza is 40 feet away, I'm 18 feet tall and have a future in the NBA!

Adrianza was out by about 12 feet, and with a proper lead with the first baseman playing so far off the bag, he gets to the plate just as the ball is arriving...a much tougher play for the catcher to make.  

But while we can quibble about measurements, we can't quibble with the fact that it was poor baserunning and careless first base coaching.  There is no excuse for the potential walk-off winning run not getting the best lead he can get. 

As I mentioned in my post...

You said “Cruz and Cron will likely resign”.

It isn’t up to them. Whether or not they are back is entirely up to the Twins. There is zero reason to believe that both won’t be back.

I would hope for the future when Cruz retires we keep him as a coach. I think we need a new Pitching coach...I think Johann Santana or Joe Nathan should work with our pitchers. What we got now is not working. Cleveland saw a need and went after it. It's not what they got(ok Puig is talented), it is what the got rid of...Bauer. His attitude was @rapola. Hopefully Puig can pick up where he left off...If Clev tries waving and mocking the Yankees, they will get cut back to size. My random daily thoughts.

Honest question- why does everyone talk about this "window" opening? My comment is not aimed at this particular post/author, a number of people are talking about it. 

 

Schoop, Cron, Cruz, Perez, Odorizzi, Pineda and Castro could all be gone after this season (Cruz and Cron will likely re-sign, but they aren't young cornerstones).

 

Polanco started hot, now is trailing off. Berrios is trending in the wrong direction. Buxton can't stay on the field. Sano is a crapshoot from game-to-game. 

 

Sure, all of Graterol, Alcala, Balazovic, Kiriloff, Larnach etc could all pan out and we could have a great team, but it's not likely. 

 

This was the year, all the stuff the FO threw at the wall offensively worked better than they could have imagined, and they needed arms. They chose not to do anything at all during the offseason, then whined that the price was too high at the deadline. 

 

I guess I don't fully understand the narrative that this team has a ton of pieces in place to be some sort of great team for the next decade. 

Completely agree THIS was the year. FO wasn't ready for THIS to be the year. So they behaved like THIS wasn't the year at the deadline. I used the window opening phrase because this is how it is commonly referred when your "wave" arrives, matures, just prior to another wave being ready. We are there. No doubt our 1st "wave" of Kepler/Buxton/Polanco/Garver/Berrios/Rosario/Rogers/Sano all are better and getting better - next "wave" Arraez/Kiriloff/Graterol/Lewis/Rooker/Balazovic will be here between now & 2021 - this is how it is done. 75% of the line up are star system prospects, augmented by expensive vet additions. And you better win it all before you need to sign your youngsters to real contracts. I'd say our deadline to win it all is 2021. Won't be able to afford this line up in 2022. I hope we don't look back at 2019 as being our best chance. We are going to have to slugfest this thing to get anywhere in the playoffs.

Yes, I think it might take more than one year to get the pitching in order unless the Twins very uncharacteristically open their wallets.

 

If the Twins had addressed the bullpen this year, they would only have to address the starting pitching next year. However, the Twins neglected to do that and will now have to address both.

 

The Twins showed they can win without Sano, so he could be a nice trade chip.

And my point is that to expect an offensive output similar to this year going forward isn't very realistic either. 

Cruz is having a monster year. Yes, he looks great, but will be 40 next year, who knows when the downturn will come. Kepler hitting bombs like it is his job is something I will bet no one thought would happen this season. Cron producing at the level he has is also something I don't think many bet on. Arreaz being an absolute stud from day one. Wait till the book gets out on him. 

My point is, the stars are aligned right now and the FO did jack squat to address it. Next year, this team could go back to average offensive production, then you will need excellent pitching just to be as good as they were this year, which we are finding out might not be enough the way it is. 

I guess I am just frustrated with all the years of the Twins being in this exact same positions and never doing anything to supplement. Now we have a new FO that promised to add if needed, an owner who says money is no object if it will help the team, etc. Turns out, it was the exact same type of process that has went on for years here. Iron is hot and ready, our core is producing, then you add a few B-C level options that don't move the needle. Hoard prospects that may or may not ever produce. Leak information to your beat writers acting as if the prices were unattainable to get real help, then we find out teams like the Mets get a nice starter for guys that wouldn't even be in our top 15 of prospect. Just gets old thats all.