Torii Hunter’s Hall of Fame Case Hinges on Jekyll and Hyde Career

Hunter was an absolute joy to watch play. His defense was a long string of highlight reels. His return to the Twins in the twilight of his career was nice tip of the hat to Twins fans. He was an overall very good to maybe great player. There are so many players that fall into that category who are not in the HOF. I believe he will be considered to be just that - a very good ball player.

There are at least a couple dozen other CF with better resumes including two on the current ballot (Beltran and Andruw Jones). Jim Edmonds is also a better contemporary pick.

Twins HOF for sure MLB HOF nope.

2 hours ago, Karbo said:

He should get in on that catch he made robbing Bonds of HR in the all star game. Probably my favorite Hunter memory. 

Hard to keep out Mike Cameron if you put people in based on highlight reel catches.

19 years in the big leagues  , he had a good career , players and media around the league liked him  ...

I hope he goes the distance  and remains on the ballot for 10 years , I doubt he will ever get the necessary 75 percent to get elected ...

But at least for the 10 years we can say he was a minnesota twin ...

Tori played a good game ...

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

There are at least a couple dozen other CF with better resumes including two on the current ballot (Beltran and Andruw Jones). Jim Edmonds is also a better contemporary pick.

I honestly thought you were crazy about Edmonds until I looked it up.  Edmonds had about 500 less hits but 10 more career WAR (60 to 50).  

I feel like Torii is awfully close to HOF worthy,  much closer than most would evaluate him. But ultimately no, not until the Veterans Committee.  

1 hour ago, Joe A. Preusser said:

I honestly thought you were crazy about Edmonds until I looked it up.  Edmonds had about 500 less hits but 10 more career WAR (60 to 50).  

Edmonds had more power and a better OBP (330 more walks). Edmonds was also a very good fielder.

I don't think its Jekyll and Hyde; he just was not at that elite level. An all-star, sure, but a HOFer, not really.

15 hours ago, Karbo said:

Winning all those gold gloves should put him on the ballot, but there are so many  eligible players with higher profiles that he probably will wait for the veterans committee. He should get in on that catch he made robbing Bonds of HR in the all star game. Probably my favorite Hunter memory. 

That All-Star game catch was one of my favorite Hunter moments too, plus the reaction from Bonds afterwards!

12 hours ago, Joe A. Preusser said:

I feel like Torii is awfully close to HOF worthy,  much closer than most would evaluate him. But ultimately no, not until the Veterans Committee. 

Looking over the stats again, it almost DOES feel like he's worthy of consideration, which is not what I expected to feel. I always thought he was a good player, extraordinary center fielder for many years, but falls short of HOF consideration. 

Hunter was very good, and was consistently good for a long time. But I think his lack of elite seasons hurts him. Some of his awards were...questionable, and may have had more to do with him being popular and visible rather than him being the best. Out of his 9 GG's, he probably should have landed more around 4-5. All-stars? More like 3 rather than 5.

Lots of highlight reel catches and he had some memorable moments, but never had any truly big seasons. One top 10 MVP vote, and that really wasn't deserved. He was really healthy over his career, and that definitely helped his teams: you could almost always count on him as a quality starter for almost every season in his career. But "Better than Baines" is a bad argument for the Hall, and I think Torii's lack of big seasons will keep him (rightly) out of the Hall.

And Torii isn't going to have a bunch of ex-teammates and/or managers on the Veteran's Committee shoving him in.

4 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Looking over the stats again, it almost DOES feel like he's worthy of consideration, which is not what I expected to feel. I always thought he was a good player, extraordinary center fielder for many years, but falls short of HOF consideration. 

Stick with your first instinct. :P

Seriously though: comp Torii against guys like Jim Edmonds and Kenny Lofton, who spent significant time in their careers playing against Torii and can fairly be said to have played in the same era. All three played CF for a long time (though Torii shifted to RF for the last several years) and all had careers in MLB that were 15+ seasons where they were real players for their teams (Torii's first 2 seasons were cups of coffee that shouldn't really count against him, same with Lofton & Edmonds first seasons). Was Torii better than either of them?

I'd have to say no, even though I love Torii. Edmonds was substantially better on offense and while he was overrated on defense...so was Torii when it came to the Gold Gloves. Lofton was more fairly evaluated on his defense (he might not have won the Gold Glove in his best defensive seasons, but he was worthy of 4 of them to be sure) but was also better overall on offense than Torii: those 600 steals make a pretty big difference; Lofton stole more than 400 bases than Torii, but was only caught 61 more times. Hunter had more power, Lofton got on base more.

I think Lofton's candidacy was hurt by bouncing around a lot after leaving Cleveland, but I'm not really sure why Edmonds got so little love. Both had the peak years that Torii was missing, and while we remember Torii as being still really good from age 35 on,..Lofton was actually about as good. (both were better than Edmonds at the end, but Edmonds peak was awfully long) Unfortunately, Torii is a fairly distant 3rd to both of those guys.

19 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Stick with your first instinct. :P

Seriously though: comp Torii against guys like Jim Edmonds and Kenny Lofton, who spent significant time in their careers playing against Torii and can fairly be said to have played in the same era. All three played CF for a long time (though Torii shifted to RF for the last several years) and all had careers in MLB that were 15+ seasons where they were real players for their teams (Torii's first 2 seasons were cups of coffee that shouldn't really count against him, same with Lofton & Edmonds first seasons). Was Torii better than either of them?

I'd have to say no, even though I love Torii. Edmonds was substantially better on offense and while he was overrated on defense...so was Torii when it came to the Gold Gloves. Lofton was more fairly evaluated on his defense (he might not have won the Gold Glove in his best defensive seasons, but he was worthy of 4 of them to be sure) but was also better overall on offense than Torii: those 600 steals make a pretty big difference; Lofton stole more than 400 bases than Torii, but was only caught 61 more times. Hunter had more power, Lofton got on base more.

I think Lofton's candidacy was hurt by bouncing around a lot after leaving Cleveland, but I'm not really sure why Edmonds got so little love. Both had the peak years that Torii was missing, and while we remember Torii as being still really good from age 35 on,..Lofton was actually about as good. (both were better than Edmonds at the end, but Edmonds peak was awfully long) Unfortunately, Torii is a fairly distant 3rd to both of those guys.

You make some good points about Edmonds, and also Lofton, a player I always loved to watch play. Both remain very underrated, even though they had long careers. But it's doubtful they will make the HOF unless a future Veterans committee decides they are worthy.