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    Staking their Claims


    Seth Stohs

    News broke on Tuesday when Jeff Passan pointed out that several veteran impending free agents on the Los Angeles Angels roster had been placed on waivers. Others throughout the league have been made available via the waiver wire as well. Should the Twins place some claims? 

    Image courtesy of Gary A. Vasquez-USA TODAY Sports

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    The baseball world appeared shocked to learn that the LA Angels placed several of their veteran players - several acquired at the trade deadline - on waivers. A quick look at a few readily available bits of information show why it makes sense for them to do it. In addition, many other non-contenders have placed veterans on waivers too. 

    Of course, this is a Minnesota Twins-related site, so the question has to be "Should the Twins place a claim on any of these players?" 

    The trade deadline this year was on August 1st. The Angels had a decision to make. Make a push in Shohei Ohtani's final season under contract, or trade him. They, almost inexplicably decided to not only not trade Ohtani, but they became buyers. 

    August is now coming to an end. The Angels are now 63-70, 12 games behind the Mariners, Rangers and Astros in the AL West and nearly the same out of a Wild Card spot. Mike Trout was hurt again and place on the IL... again. And worse, Ohtani now has a torn UCL which will likely require him to have a second Tommy John surgery. 

    So, according to Jeff Passan, the Angels placed veteran starter Lucas Giolito, relievers Reynaldo Rodriguez and Matt Moore, and outfielders Hunter Renfroe and Randall Grichuk on waivers. At about the same time, the Yankees placed center fielder Harrison Bader on waivers. It is likely that many players whose availability hasn't been leaked publicly are also on the waiver wire. 

     Those teams are completely out of contention. While many want to spin it as salary relief, and it most certainly is, I consider it a pretty classy move by those teams. While players can no longer be traded after the one trade deadline, players can be claimed. And, if a player is on an organization's roster before September 1st, that player is eligible to be on their new team's playoff roster. 

    By placing players on the roster on Tuesday, the waiver timetable means that they will be rewarded to their team winning the claim before the September 1st deadline. So, the Angels can save $1.7 million if someone claims Lucas Giolito. But Giolito can suddenly find himself back in a pennant race. The team that wins the claim gets to add Giolito to their roster. It's kind of a win-win-win for everyone. 

    The waiver order starts with the worse overall team in baseball. If they don't claim him, the team with the second-worst record can win the claim, and so on. Of course, these claims are done blindly, not knowing which other organizations have claimed players. MLB will let the teams know who 'wins' the claims. 

    The Question
    So, that brings us back to the question from earlier. Should the Twins be active participants in claiming the players now available? 

    The Answer
    The short answer is, of course, yes. The slightly longer answer is Absolutely Yes. 

    But it isn't that easy. The team shouldn't just claim everyone. If they win the claim, that player jumps onto the team's 40-man roster which necessitates other moves. The Twins still have guys that could go on the 60-Day Injured List. And yes, there are some players that could be DFAd.  

    What are the Twins needs? 
    This really hasn't changed since the trade deadline four weeks ago. At that time, the Twins needed a right-handed hitting outfield bat, and bullpen help. 

    They did claim Jordan Luplow on waivers a couple of weeks ago, and he has done a solid job for the Twins in his platoon role. But would Hunter Renfroe or Randall Grichuk be an improvement over Luplow? Certainly. Renfroe would cost around $2.0 million the rest of the season, and Grichuk would be closer to $1.7 million. Add Harrison Bader to that conversation as he is able to play center field well which may matter, depending on how Buxton responds to playing out there in his rehab starting tonight. 

    And, the bullpen... it was a need a month ago, and it's an even bigger need now. While Emilio Pagan and Caleb Thielbar have been good, and Jhoan Duran remains strong, Griffin Jax has struggled in August. The young guys filling three or more spots at the back of the bullpen have had ups and downs. Jordan Balazovic looked good for awhile, but he really struggled and was eventually sent down. Josh Winder has had a tough year, but his two most recent outings have been three scoreless innings each. Cole Sands has been fine, but they haven't found a lot of situations for him. Jovani Moran walked his way over to St. Paul, and Kody Funderburk did a very nice job in his major-league debut this week. 

    But there is no question that adding Reynaldo Lopez (about $600,000 remaining) or Matt Moore (around $1,200,000 remaining), or even Jose Cisnero (around $400,000 remaining), should improve that bullpen depth. I mean, if they wanted, they could claim Lucas Giolito (around $1.7 million remaining) and either have him start or see what he is capable of working one or two innings a couple of times a week. That's the role we have been envisioning for Louie Varland, right? 

    Summary
    At least, in theory, the Twins roster will soon add Willi Castro, Alex Kirilloff and Byron Buxton. Bailey Ober will certainly come back up. Players like Trevor Larnach and Austin Martin are in St. Paul. The roster will be strengthened, but the Twins also have a unique opportunity to add contributors to their roster at this time, players who could fill roles that, even with the returning players, would fit the team's needs. 

    In addition, the Twins have one of the lowest winning percentages among playoff teams and teams competing for wild card spots. They would presumably have their pick of players. 

    This is a legitimate opportunity to make a couple of significant improvements to the roster at a time when other contenders can't counter with a trade. 

    Matt Trueblood has a couple of articles worth reading on the Angels situation: 
    1.) He ranks the Angels pitching options according to how much they make sense for the Brewers, but some of the same logic could be used for the Twins too. 
    2.) He thinks that the Cubs should just claim all of the waived Angels, but that there is one that stands out as a prize for them. Would the same pitcher rank atop the Twins wish list? 

    What would I do? 
    First, how cool would it be to actually be able to make these decisions... and how much stress would it be to get it right? 

    However, I think the Twins should claim at least two relievers. Reynaldo Lopez, Jose Cisnero would make the big league bullpen deeper. Matt Moore would give the team a second veteran lefty in the bullpen.

    I also think they should decide on one of the three outfielders. Grichuk and Bader can play center field. Bader's got youth on his side among the group. Renfroe certainly fits the Twins mold with huge power and the ability to swing and miss a lot. 

    I think they should put in claims for all three of those relievers and hope they wind up with two of them, any two. The Twins should place a claim on one of the right-handed hitting outfielders, whoever ranks highest on their list, and hope. 

    What would you do? 
    Your turn. How active do you think the Twins should be in placing waiver claims these next days? 

     

     

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    18 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

    Can anyone tell me if a team can only claim one player at a time?  That is--if OAK wanted to, could they claim all these players, and get all of them?  Or once they get awarded the claim on their first choice, do they drop to 30th for their second player?

    It's the former. They could claim all if they wanted them all. 

    I'm not a fan of calling this type of behavior from the team a "classy" move. They can spin it as doing the guys a solid and perhaps letting them get into a playoff race, but it's actually the type of thing that will piss everyone else in the league off.

    This just might be the type of abuse of the rules that makes MLB shut the door completely on it.

    I’m just going to beat a dead horse and say the Twins should go for the pitching.  The 3 relievers and Clenenger and Giolito too.  And one of the rh bats.  Renfro or Grichuk.  Get something done.  I worry we hit our payroll limit for the season and management will decide to do nothing.  

    8 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

    I just do not see these players making it to the Twins.  At least not the players we might want to have.  

    This is how I see it as well. So many teams need bullpen help and rotation help. Zero chance the Twins get any of the Angels relievers or Giolito.  I think the best starter that makes it to the Twins is Carrasco...I'd pass. 

    2 hours ago, Alex Wilde said:

    You might as well claim every single one of them and then figure out what happens from there. Do not pick and choose because you might be left with nothing at the end of the day. The obvious goal would be to get one additional BP arm and a right-handed corner OF to hit in the middle of the order against lefties.

    This really isn't necessary. It's highly likely only playoff contenders will be claiming any of these players. Because of the Twins's record, the team will be one of the highest priority teams on the list, possibly the second highest after the Reds.

    With that level of priority, the Twins should be able to get almost anyone they want from the wire.

    13 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

    I just do not see these players making it to the Twins.  At least not the players we might want to have.  

    Do you expect non-playoff contenders to claim any of these players?

    If not, the Twins are in a prime position to claim pretty much whoever they want due to their record. Only the Reds have a worse record of all current contenders.

    Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a fan of waiver dumps like this. Anaheim is that idiot in your fantasy league that doesn't set lineups, gets eliminated early, and then unloads their roster because why not.

    Teams have an entire offseason, plus 4 months during the regular season, to pay for talent. They shouldn't be scooping it up in late August for peanuts. 

    7 minutes ago, Minny505 said:

    This really isn't necessary. It's highly likely only playoff contenders will be claiming any of these players. Because of the Twins's record, the team will be one of the highest priority teams on the list, possibly the second highest after the Reds.

    With that level of priority, the Twins should be able to get almost anyone they want from the wire.

    D-Backs, Reds, Marlins, and Red Sox are all behind them in the standings. Padres and Yankees can claim guys so that their division rivals come up empty. There are plenty of teams ahead of the Twins and the best players will most likely be gone at their position. So if you only take 2-3 shots, the chances of those guys falling to them are slim to none.

    The Twins and Reds need to collude on this. Surely neither team feels comfortable claiming everyone as there's salary concerns and even bigger roster concerns. But they aren't competing with each other for playoff spots, so they should easily be able to collaborate to find out what the other team wants. The Twins getting players would block the NL teams the Reds are chasing from getting them, and the Reds getting players would block AL teams from getting players.

    The rest of the league would be upset, which is just fine with me.

    The obvious would be to replace Luplow. There are two right handed hitting outfielders that would be an upgrade from Luplow. Renfoe or Grichuk. I think Matt Moore makes a lot of sense. Funderburk looked good but he has two innings of mlb experience. Lastly, Giolito is not pitching great but if Pete Maki could get him right that could be a legitimate 3rd starter. You could send down Cole Sands or Josh Winder and maybe move Maeda to the bullpen. I'd be aggressive if I were the Twins. There are a whole bunch of good players there and we don't have to give any prospects. I'd call this a gift from God. Of playoffs teams the Twins are in the 1st claim spot. 

    2 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

    D-Backs, Reds, Marlins, and Red Sox are all behind them in the standings. Padres and Yankees can claim guys so that their division rivals come up empty. There are plenty of teams ahead of the Twins and the best players will most likely be gone at their position. So if you only take 2-3 shots, the chances of those guys falling to them are slim to none.

    Red Sox and Dbacks are tied with the Twins. I'm not sure how that would work, but wins & losses today might break that anyway.

    Marlins are out of it.

    That leaves the Reds as the lone team that is ahead of the Twins as of right now.

    And this isn't fantasy baseball. No team is putting in a claim just to spite those teams in contention. I would be shocked, absolutely flabbergasted, if any non-contending team (other than the Marlins) claimed any of the players that come with an expiring contract. 

    15 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

    Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a fan of waiver dumps like this. Anaheim is that idiot in your fantasy league that doesn't set lineups, gets eliminated early, and then unloads their roster because why not.

    Teams have an entire offseason, plus 4 months during the regular season, to pay for talent. They shouldn't be scooping it up in late August for peanuts. 

    It's the rules. I don't get how playing by the rules is wrong/bad/evil somehow. 

    Why should LAA keep those guys? It is the 100% right move by them. 

    15 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

    D-Backs, Reds, Marlins, and Red Sox are all behind them in the standings. Padres and Yankees can claim guys so that their division rivals come up empty. There are plenty of teams ahead of the Twins and the best players will most likely be gone at their position. So if you only take 2-3 shots, the chances of those guys falling to them are slim to none.

    Why would the Yankees waste money and lose a 40 man spot just to spite someone? That's silly.

    3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    Why would the Yankees waste money and lose a 40 man spot just to spite someone? That's silly.

    If anything, the teams out of contention want teams above them in the standings to improve just to hang on to the better draft position.

    Where is the upside to claiming any of the 3 outfielders mentioned? Renfro is a copycat to what the Twins have already, a power guy that strikes out too much, He's hitting .237 and has an OBP of .300. Grichuk is actually worse than Gallo and Bader is no better than Taylor. I'm not impressed with any of them and fail to see why any of these guys are worth spending additional payroll on. 

    As for the pitchers, Moore might be worthy of taking a flyer on him. His last 2 seasons he's been decent. I do not see a Reynaldo Rodriguez listed on the Angels roster. If you mean Reynaldo Lopez, I'd probably stay away from him as his career stats suggest he could be another Jorge Lopez since he really only had 1 good season in his entire career, 2022. I'd prefer NOT to go down that road again. I'm guessing, the Twins FO will stand pat with what they have and at this point I'm ok with that as well. I'd rather see them add to the team by subtraction, meaning getting rid of the crap players they have that are making this team worse than it could be, not better.

    16 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    Why would the Yankees waste money and lose a 40 man spot just to spite someone? That's silly.

    You really wouldn't put that past the Yankees...claiming someone so that the Red Sox do not get them? When has money EVER been a problem with the Yankees? If you were them, why wouldn't you give up a couple of million dollars so your lifelong division rival doesn't get the RP they want for their possible postseason run?

    26 minutes ago, Minny505 said:

    Red Sox and Dbacks are tied with the Twins. I'm not sure how that would work, but wins & losses today might break that anyway.

    Marlins are out of it.

    That leaves the Reds as the lone team that is ahead of the Twins as of right now.

    And this isn't fantasy baseball. No team is putting in a claim just to spite those teams in contention. I would be shocked, absolutely flabbergasted, if any non-contending team (other than the Marlins) claimed any of the players that come with an expiring contract. 

    As if the Yankees wouldn't do this? (Side note, they already have done it in the past.) The Padres have wildly underperformed their expectations so why wouldn't Preller claim some guys as a last-ditch effort? Obviously, money isn't a concern for either of these teams.

    2 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

    You really wouldn't put that past the Yankees...claiming someone so that the Red Sox do not get them? When has money EVER been a problem with the Yankees? If you were them, why wouldn't you give up a couple of million dollars so your lifelong division rival doesn't get the RP they want for their possible postseason run?

    I really don't think Cashman currently has the job security to throw the owner's money down the toilet purely out of spite.

    1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

    I really don't think Cashman currently has the job security to throw the owner's money down the toilet purely out of spite.

    Well what is that money to the owner 1, and 2, why wouldn't you as an owner want that for your rival anyways? If the Twins had the chance to do this to the White Sox, who on this website wouldn't be clamoring for them to spite the fricken White Sox?

    7 minutes ago, Alex Wilde said:

    You really wouldn't put that past the Yankees...claiming someone so that the Red Sox do not get them? When has money EVER been a problem with the Yankees? If you were them, why wouldn't you give up a couple of million dollars so your lifelong division rival doesn't get the RP they want for their possible postseason run?

    Because it is a waste of money and I run a business? It would be stupid. 

    1 minute ago, Alex Wilde said:

    Well what is that money to the owner 1, and 2, why wouldn't you as an owner want that for your rival anyways? If the Twins had the chance to do this to the White Sox, who on this website wouldn't be clamoring for them to spite the fricken White Sox?

    Me! Why give up a 40 man spot to spite another team? That's just childish.

    Just now, Alex Wilde said:

    Well what is that money to the owner 1, and 2, why wouldn't you as an owner want that for your rival anyways? If the Twins had the chance to do this to the White Sox, who on this website wouldn't be clamoring for them to spite the fricken White Sox?

    Uh me? If the Twins are out of the playoff hunt, I'd rather them audition the young guys and angle for draft position. Fans are way more petty about rivalries than the teams are.

    Some fans apparently, not most fans.

    If I understand the rules right, the real issue is priority. Once you have been awarded a player, that team then goes to the back of the line the next players. So, for example, the Twins claimed one of the relievers, it will go to the back of the line and be very unlikely to get any of the other relievers or position players. So the key is the order of the claims because you're unlikely to get more than one of these players.

    For me, the order is relatively simple. Matt Moore is the best player of the group and it is not even close. He being a reliever also corresponds with the biggest need. Moore is first, and Reynaldo Lopez is second but a maybe. He has not been consistently good but we desperately need relief pitching. I wouldn't have anything to do with Cisneros. He is not good. If we get shut out on the relievers, I would rather have Harrison Bader than any of the other hitters. Hunter Renfroe is okay but a classic empty calories guy who doesn't run well, doesn't field that well, and doesn't hit in the clutch. Grichuk was pretty good in Colorado, but has been worse than awful since he left the thin air and played at sea level with the Angels. Unlikely to be helpful. Bader cannot hit right-handed pitching to save his life but is a 1.137 OPS guy against lefties this season. He can also run and field.

    So for me, It's simple. Under the rules, we are unlikely to get more than one of these players unless somebody is not interesting to any other team. The order is Moore, Lopez,  Bader, and then Renfroe. Matt Moore is the guy we really want.

    3 hours ago, Hawkeye Bean Counter said:

    They should make 3-4 claims. 

    1.Grichuk or Renfrow or Bader for Luplow.  However, whoever you pick you better make sure you get the claim.  

    2. The 3 relievers, you make claims on all 3 realizing you will likely only get 1, 2 or never having a chance at any of them.  The issue is the same philosophy should be taken by the marlins unless they are willing to throw in the towel.   

    Unless things break for the Twins I only see 1 player added possibly 2.   

    I am not a big "let's see how Buxton does" person.  He is a wonderful person who is not any longer an asset to the team.  It is time to get great assets for the offense.  I am also big on intangible Fits the Team Chemistry with skills.  This is a good chemistry bunch and nothing should detract from that.  Someone with some research skills tell us who is skilled and fits well.

     

    36 minutes ago, David Barrett said:

    I am not a big "let's see how Buxton does" person.  He is a wonderful person who is not any longer an asset to the team.  It is time to get great assets for the offense.  I am also big on intangible Fits the Team Chemistry with skills.  This is a good chemistry bunch and nothing should detract from that.  Someone with some research skills tell us who is skilled and fits well.

     

    Welcome to TD!

    2 hours ago, Minny505 said:

    Do you expect non-playoff contenders to claim any of these players?

    If not, the Twins are in a prime position to claim pretty much whoever they want due to their record. Only the Reds have a worse record of all current contenders.

    I expect wild card and bubble teams to claim them and if I were Cleveland I would block the Twins with small amounts left on the contracts for the year and then they are gone.  There are 15 teams that would need to pass for someone to get to us.




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