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    Sano Going To Let It Eat


    Ted Schwerzler

    With big expectations, there are big responsibilities. It's fair to say that since signing with the Minnesota Twins as a teenager, Miguel Sano has been the focal point of some very big expectations. His massive power potential has long been the narrative, and despite being signed as a shortstop, the feeling was always that his bat and frame would push him from the position. Fast forward to 2018 and we've got a near-25 year-old who's toyed with those expectations, but has overlooked some of the responsibilities.

    Image courtesy of © Harrison Barden-USA TODAY Sports

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    Entering the regular season, Miguel Sano finds himself in somewhat of a limbo. After being accused of sexual assault over the offseason (from an incident stemming years earlier), he awaits his fate as MLB conducts their investigation. My assumption is that some sort of discipline will be handed down, and given previous league decisions, it should come in somewhere under 30 games. Coming off a year in which he played 114 games for the Twins, he should still have opportunity to top that output. That being said, it's yet again another responsibility he's failed to make good on.

    With reporters descending on Fort Myers for the beginning of Spring Training, it's once again come to light that Sano is significantly overweight. Derek Falvey hinted at that notion, suggesting the Minnesota third basemen's recovery from injury has gone well, but that he needs to now focus on getting to where he needs to be with his conditioning. That is a politically correct way of putting it, and in previous seasons Patrick Reusse has called it what it is. Miguel Sano is overweight.

    Looking back to Reusse's column in March 2016, I had an issue with there seemingly being a suggested link between Sano being hurt because of being fat. While that may not have been fair, the Star Tribune columnist has been spot on when it comes to pegging the poundage for young Miguel. Once again, he's entered camp staring at 300 pounds and comes in around the 290 mark. To suggest that hampers relative production is unfair, but there are more than a few takeaways when it comes to what the scale is telling us.

    First and foremost, there's a real lack of accountability to Minnesota for Sano. Having invested in him heavily as a player, and his development, the Twins have worked with him to stay on the infield dirt far earlier than the new regime's days. While shortstop was never going to be a reality, positional value at third base is significantly higher than having to be moved across the diamond as Joe Mauer's heir, or worse, solely a designated hitter. Despite having employed nutritionists in the clubhouse, and undoubtedly using offseason check-ins, Sano hasn't accomplished the Twins' goals in multiple seasons when it comes to his habits.

    Secondly, there's the fallout in regard to the lack of accountability. Because of allowing his weight to balloon, the reality is that Sano's long-term value is sapped exponentially. Forget the reality that an increase to injury potential is a by-product of being overweight, the loss of a position makes one of the Twins greatest assets one dimensional. Even if he heads to first base, which is far from a foregone conclusion, Sano isn't viewed as the asset he could be if he was able to stick at the hot corner. Recently, KSTP's Darren Wolfson noted what was suspected all along: Sano wasn't going to entice the Rays into dealing Archer when seen as a one dimensional player.

    At the end of the day, there are a few hard and fast realities for the Twins and Miguel Sano. First and foremost, they have a 24 year old who has failed to hold himself accountable, and has done so on multiple occasions. Secondly, they also have an extremely good ballplayer, who's capable of producing some of the greatest power outputs the game has seen on a year-by-year basis. I believe that in 2018 and beyond, Miguel Sano will put up multiple 30-plus homer seasons, and that he'll be of significant value going forward. I do also believe that the only person lowering his ceiling is himself.

    No matter how his assault case shakes out, it seems as if there are multiple aspects of growing up when it comes to the opposite sex. No matter what his weight gets to, it's apparent there's a significant level of responsibility that can yet be adhered to. For both Miguel Sano and the Minnesota Twins, a stronger commitment to oneself from the player benefits all involved. Right now, there's a very talented ballplayer who can compete and produce at a very high level. If there is a comfortable situation here, where a point has been reached that improvement isn't demanded of the player to unlock superstar potential, well then, we'll only be able to wonder, what if?

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    So 5 pages of assuming what a healthy weight is by the number of pounds?

     

    Dwayne Johnson weighs 280.  What a fat guy.

     

    Maybe we should just try saying Miguel is "out of shape" and concentrate on that.  As soon as you start tossing numbers around about what a guy should or should not weigh and be healthy...you lost me.  That's being obtuse.

     

    The Twins medical staff can discern that from more personal testing, you calculating it based on his height is nonsense.

     

    I would argue that assuming to know a healthy baseline weight for Sano is obtuse...

     

    Who is to say that 280, where he checked in last season, and where he can easily get to after moving around this spring, isn't a healthy weight? Are we certain his body won' allow him to play into his 30s at that weight? 

     

    Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

     

    Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

     

    And those offensive lineman run faster than you. Athletes have changed. The days of the Jack Clark sluggers is done.

     

    Sano is over weight, I don't think anyone is arguing against this. I think there is some serious disagreement over how much he's overweight and how much that affects his play on the field. Since he's recovering from a leg injury, added weight isn't surprising. I suspect he'll be lighter by the end of ST. I don't think his weight has been negatively affecting him.

    I completely understand how athletes have changed over the years.

     

    They actually don't run faster than me    :)

    Edited by Tibs

     

    Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

     

    Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

     

    Does Sano have to be "lean" in order for you to be happy?  Because, if so, I'd wonder about why half of our 25 man roster doesn't have a similar thread as this one.

     

    So 5 pages of assuming what a healthy weight is by the number of pounds?

     

    Dwayne Johnson weighs 280.  What a fat guy.

     

    Maybe we should just try saying Miguel is "out of shape" and concentrate on that.  As soon as you start tossing numbers around about what a guy should or should not weigh and be healthy...you lost me.  That's being obtuse.

     

    The Twins medical staff can discern that from more personal testing, you calculating it based on his height is nonsense.

     

    Dwayne Johnson reported his weight at 262 last year, at an inch taller than Sano. He also lifts for show, not for go (i.e., maximum lean bulk, not athletic performance). And he's still 30 lbs lighter.

    So essentially he's a few pounds heavier than 2017 when he reported to camp at 280 as Jack Morris correctly stated and everyone else hammered as utter rubbish and nonsense. "oh he's only 263"

     

    Do the Twins still want to hand out a 10 year 200+ million plus contract in a couple of years to this guy? Obviously weight is going to be a problem long term for him. You would think that an injury such as the one he just suffered would refocus his mind on conditioning, but apparently not. What a shame. Trade him for pitching. How bout a 1 for 1 Sano for Archer.

    I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

    In the last 3-4 years, Cabrera has started experiencing those nagging types of injuries that come with not being in great shape. I don't think anyone is saying that Sano's injury last year was weight related. I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't provide a huge amount of value to the Twins right now offensively. But I also don't think anyone thinks that he'll be able to sustain his value into his 30s or mid-30s if he doesn't make some alterations. I think all of those comments are fair.

     

    That’s the point. He weighs 40-50 pounds more than the slugger with perhaps the most similar body type, who is 10 years older and had had three single seasons by the time he was Sano’s age with the same WAR as Sano has accumulated over his whole career. If Sano doesn’t take fitness more seriously, he’ll start his decline about ten years earlier than Cabrera. Sure, he’s talented, but that’s just the start of being successful.

     

    Related: a lower leg injury or surgery doesn’t keep basketball players or runners from keeping in shape. It’s no excuse for a baseball player. You’d especially expect someone who has had two major injuries end two years and another injury that cost a big chunk of another season to WANT to be a beast the next year and not show up needing to work into shape.

     

    Does Sano have to be "lean" in order for you to be happy?  Because, if so, I'd wonder about why half of our 25 man roster doesn't have a similar thread as this one.

     

    No, he doesn't. And that's not what I said. I'm not being unreasonable and saying he needs to be 225 or get to 5% bodyfat. I just don't see how pushing 3 bills on the scale can be considered normal and sustainable just because he can still hit a baseball hard today (and probably for a few more years).

     

    I've mostly ignored this topic in the previous iterations because I didn't think it was going to be an actual problem and he'd settle into a normal playing weight to extend his time at 3B, a position he claims to want to keep. But that's not happening, so it's fair to start being concerned about another year of trending in the wrong direction. Ultimately, only time will tell.

     

    There are lots of pictures of Sano on various internet sites. He doesn't look fat in any of the ones I've seen. Keep in mind that muscle weighs more than fat.

     

    Huh. Guess we should ignore the "generous carriage" comments from the Twins' GM then? Because he doesn't "look fat" on Internet pics?

     

    Kinda looks like he has a generous carriage in this picture here:

     

    http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

     

     

     

    I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

     

    He's going to get these complaints everywhere else he goes if his team says he should get down to a certain weight and he doesn't. It's common, and it's perfectly acceptable these days for teams to push better conditioning on their players.

     

    Regardless, I wouldn't want the Twins to sign Sano for 10 years now, anyway, because he hasn't performed like a player worth a 10-year contract. So the point is moot. 

     

    Regardless, I wouldn't want the Twins to sign Sano for 10 years now, anyway, because he hasn't performed like a player worth a 10-year contract. So the point is moot. 

    Which is really more the point here than weight is at all. Sano has the talent to be a superstar, but has the dedication of accepting that he's been an All Star.

    We just need to find out exactly how much he weighed in April 2017 and make sure he weighs exactly that from here on out.

     

    If he's a pound over that April 2017 benchmark he has to run on the hamster wheel. If he's lucky, maybe he can eat a leaf of lettuce. No dressing of course. Every calorie counts!

    I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of him signing a 10 year contract here. Why would he stay here when every season comes around his weight, work ethic, and attitude are questioned?

    I agree he’s unlikely to sign here, but it’s because it was always unlikely and because he’s been called a lot worse things than “fat” over last few months.

     

    No, he doesn't. And that's not what I said. I'm not being unreasonable and saying he needs to be 225 or get to 5% bodyfat. I just don't see how pushing 3 bills on the scale can be considered normal and sustainable just because he can still hit a baseball hard today (and probably for a few more years).

     

    I've mostly ignored this topic in the previous iterations because I didn't think it was going to be an actual problem and he'd settle into a normal playing weight to extend his time at 3B, a position he claims to want to keep. But that's not happening, so it's fair to start being concerned about another year of trending in the wrong direction. Ultimately, only time will tell.

     

    I'm making no other argument than this: We don't know what a healthy weight is for Sano.  We've seen him badgered for 280, 290, 260, and many other numbers in between.

     

    I'm all for imploring the guy to be physically ready to play.  I'm not for attacking him with arguments that amount to "He weighs more than 240, he must be lazy"

    Im of two minds on this.
    First, i do kind of feel like we blow this out of proportion. He is a big guy either way you cut it, and we shouldnt judge others by their body. That type of judgement is a society wide thing too, and its a huge problem.

    But then, i also feel like its not okay at all. It feels like he isnt trying as hard as he can. Even as a fan, that hurts. I want them to win so badly, and if it feels like their star player wont do everything he can to win, that hurts.
    Then, theres also this. The twins are Sano's employer. If they asked him to be a certain weight, or be in a certain shape, and he isnt, they have every right to be upset. At least at my job, if my boss tells me to do my documentation a certain way, or treat my patients in a certain way....even if i dont agree with them, if i say "meh, i dont care", they have every right to be upset with me. Why should it be different for the job of baseball?

     

    I don't care what his weight number is. Thats not important. I care whether or not he cares enough to do everything in his power to win. If his employers think he will be better at a certain level of fitness, then the Twins (and us, as the Twins customers), have a right to be upset if he isn't trying as hard as he can to meet that standard of fitness.

     

    Obviously us at home don't know with certainty what his healthy baseline weight is, but there's just no way it's 290 at 6'4". 250-270 is a reasonable. He'd have to be an extreme outlier (and probably the only athlete ever) to have a lean body mass anywhere near 280-300.

     

    Also, Sano has a track record of gaining weight after spring training starts. Not losing it. He'd have to show he can reverse that trend before anyone should expect it.

    Body mass isn't an accurate measure of health, especially for an athlete. For reference I'm 28 yo, I work out 5-6 days a week, and I have a body fat % that's considered "lean," and it shows, yet I'm considered overweight according to my body mass. The one size fits all approach of determining an acceptable weight based only on height doesn't work. I'm not saying everything Sano is packing on is muscle, but athletes (power hitters in particular) tend to carry much more muscle than the average person. If some schmuck like myself is "overweight," just imagine how skewed those numbers are when measuring real athletes. 

     

    Again, all these ranges mean nothing. Neither you nor I can possibly say that between weight X and Y is a healthy range, yet we're certain he can't play at 280? 

     

    AT what point does mobility become a problem.  The Twins may be forced to move him to DH far sooner than even they imagined. I mean honestly if this is true and he's upwards of 290 (basically where he was at when he went down with that injury) he's now approaching the average size of an NFL tackle, guard or center at 312 lbs.  Too big.

    The only thing that has limited his mobility to this point is his shin injury, which again had nothing to do with his weight. 

    I think it speaks volumes.  Sano is too young to give up being a two way player, but he has shown a lack of discipline and he will do fine, but he will not do what he could have done.  Remember the Panda?  How about the quick demise of Prince Fielder? 

     

    Perhaps this will work out - http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealth/baseball-players-overweight-study-suggests/story?id=10001820 but I doubt it.  We are getting bigger and bigger in all sports but baseball seems to be leading - https://www.menshealth.com/guy-wisdom/fat-baseball.  

     

    I am sad because he has so much potential and he also has the potential to flame out by 30.

     

    At this given moment, thinking (Sano or not) a 1B/DH with massive power numbers is ever going to net a top tier pitcher under team control for more than a couple seasons is certainly a stretch. How it works out down the road is one thing, but it's not shocking in the least to see that offer dismissed.

     

    And I agree with you completely, but we are also not taking your run of the mill pwer hitting 1B/DH. We are talking Miguel Sano here...Isnt his power level still in the category of "generational" and "once in a lifetime"? 

    I'm more concerned that he might drop over from a coronary than whether he hits a target weight. Obesity can be deadly. And for a professional athlete with both means and opportunity at his fingertips, there is no excuse for him not to be in playing shape whatever weight that is.

    Weight and conditioning part is a bit reminiscent of Hrbek. I remember it being a pretty much annual issue with how much weight he put on. He was a great player and shoe in for Twins HOFer, but I think with different habits his ceiling was baseball HOF. Sano has a different ceiling also if he can't control his weight and condition. i don't think being an ok 3rd baseman or a mediocre 1st baseman adds that much value. Let him DH because it is his bat that plays.

    Weight wasn’t an issue for Hrbek at 24. He played 140 plus games all but one season until 1991 (the year after he turned 30). And that was playing 100 plus games on the old fashioned astroturf. Not only at home, many many other stadiums had it during nearly all of Hrbek’s career.

     

    The only thing that has limited his mobility to this point is his shin injury, which again had nothing to do with his weight. 

     

     

    Body mass isn't an accurate measure of health, especially for an athlete. For reference I'm 28 yo, I work out 5-6 days a week, and I have a body fat % that's considered "lean," and it shows, yet I'm considered overweight according to my body mass. The one size fits all approach of determining an acceptable weight based only on height doesn't work. I'm not saying everything Sano is packing on is muscle, but athletes (power hitters in particular) tend to carry much more muscle than the average person. If some schmuck like myself is "overweight," just imagine how skewed those numbers are when measuring real athletes. 

     

    Again, all these ranges mean nothing. Neither you nor I can possibly say that between weight X and Y is a healthy range, yet we're certain he can't play at 280? 

     

     

    And his hamstring injury in 2015. And the other hamstring injury in 2016. And for 2018 spring training, the 'generous carriage' his GM notes will limit his spring activity. Yes, I'm aware that's connected to the shin injury but a little dietary discipline could have mitigated that and had him ready to go sooner. Athletes in other sports don't gain significant weight due to lower body injuries, because they know that's not an option. Maybe all those injuries and recovery times were unrelated and unaffected by his conditioning/fitness, but why put yourself in a position to even wonder?

     

    You're right we don't know what his ideal weight is, because as you said every body type is different. Maybe he really will be the outlier that sustains excellence for many years at 280-300 lbs. But it's hard to bet against history, and I can't look at the pictures in this Star Tribune article and not think he's ballooned quite a bit from even previous seasons:

     

    http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

    Anybody calling Big Papi fat? How about MIguel Cabrera? Sure, plenty of fat guys have fallen from grace, but this guy can straight up mash. If he can stay on the field, he's our most dangerous hitter, and it isn't even close. Cannot afford to let guys like Souhan and Reusse run this guy out of town. We need this dude in the middle of our lineup FOREVER.

    He needs to prove he can actually stay healthy enough to be in the middle of the lineup.

     

    And his hamstring injury in 2015. And the other hamstring injury in 2016. And for 2018 spring training, the 'generous carriage' his GM notes will limit his spring activity. Yes, I'm aware that's connected to the shin injury but a little dietary discipline could have mitigated that and had him ready to go sooner. Athletes in other sports don't gain significant weight due to lower body injuries, because they know that's not an option. Maybe all those injuries and recovery times were unrelated and unaffected by his conditioning/fitness, but why put yourself in a position to even wonder?

     

    You're right we don't know what his ideal weight is, because as you said every body type is different. Maybe he really will be the outlier that sustains excellence for many years at 280-300 lbs. But it's hard to bet against history, and I can't look at the pictures in this Star Tribune article and not think he's ballooned quite a bit from even previous seasons:

     

    http://www.startribune.com/twins-miguel-sano-healthy-and-happy-but-heavy/474439303/

    Those head and shoulder pics really don't show much. Try some of these.

     

    http://www.photofile.com/SportsProducts/player/baseball/Miguel-Sano.html

     

    These are better pics.




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