Michael Pineda Will Play a Huge Role During This Division Race

Yeah I am on board with the signing. He looks great as a #3 or #4 guy. It's a lot earlier than I thought he would step up but he certainly has. The problems we have are not him or the starters. They are not the offense. They are not Rogers. The problem is the bridge from the 6th to 9th innings. Unfortunately this was crystal clear as early as November 2018. It's Unbelievable that a front office with unlimited spending potential(by their own admission) and a deep and talent rich farm system cannot in 9 months fortify a bullpen that was an obvious weakness since they took over this team. I am tired if hearing how brilliant our 2 "boy wonders"are. To never be in the race is one thing, but to lead all year and stand by blindly and watch the train wreck is maddening. Next we are gonna hear some excuse about how Syndergaard for Buxton was a dumb proposal. Last I checked Syndergaard hadn't missed a start this year. I sure didn't see BB in the lineup today? I'm 55 years old. I don't have time to watch this 5 year plan develop when all year we played almost .700 ball. what more window of opportunity did you expect. I'm gonna be sick if I have to watch that sorry ass

Cleveland team ever represent the AL Central in the playoffs again!

Yeah I am on board with the signing. He looks great as a #3 or #4 guy. It's a lot earlier than I thought he would step up but he certainly has. The problems we have are not him or the starters. They are not the offense. They are not Rogers. The problem is the bridge from the 6th to 9th innings. Unfortunately this was crystal clear as early as November 2018. It's Unbelievable that a front office with unlimited spending potential(by their own admission) and a deep and talent rich farm system cannot in 9 months fortify a bullpen that was an obvious weakness since they took over this team. I am tired if hearing how brilliant our 2 "boy wonders"are. To never be in the race is one thing, but to lead all year and stand by blindly and watch the train wreck is maddening. Next we are gonna hear some excuse about how Syndergaard for Buxton was a dumb proposal. Last I checked Syndergaard hadn't missed a start this year. I sure didn't see BB in the lineup today? I'm 55 years old. I don't have time to watch this 5 year plan develop when all year we played almost .700 ball. what more window of opportunity did you expect. I'm gonna be sick if I have to watch that sorry ass
Cleveland team ever represent the AL Central in the playoffs again!

A lot to unpack here. You are correct that one of the main problems with this team is the middle relief pitchers, but you can't say this front office didn't do anything to fix that after they went and acquired Romo and Dyson. Romo has had one bad game (today) and Dyson should definitely be trusted down the road. I have no problem with them not spending big dollars on relievers because almost none of them worked out (not even Kimbrel). The Twins addressed this problem at the deadline and they just have not seen the results yet. Also, very few teams have a quality bullpen. The Twins have one of the better ones and the results will show soon.

We need him badly.  

https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11608-playoff-pitchers-where-do-twins-rank/

 

The pitching staff is almost a daily litany of frustration and we still have a lot of games left before the playoffs  The problem with Pineda is health, just like Buxton.  Can he hold up the rest of the season and if we extend him, can he hold up beyond this season. 

 

Quality starts is not a high enough standard, but it is a start - Twins starts and Quality starts

 

Berrios 24 - 17

Pineda 21 - 11

Gibson 25 - 9

Perez  24 - 9 

Odorizzi 23 - 7

Smeltzer  4 - 2

Stewart  2  - 1

 

That is a total of only 56 QS in 120 games!  That does say something!

I expect Pineda has a good chance of holding up just because these IL stins seem more scheduled or precautionary than anything serious.

You could argue Big Mike should be the game 1 starter... He's been the best in the rotation since June.

He's my #1 priority to resign out of the 3 pending free agents in the rotation.

I would love to see Pineda get a deal around 2 years for $25 million. I would expect we re-sign Gibson as well.

I agree about signing Pineda and Odo. Gibson is a great person, but a mediocre pitcher. Time for a youth movement and some free agents. 

I would look into re-signing Odorizzi and Pineda - I think both can be a bit underrated, and Pineda might improve in his second year after TJ surgery. Odorizzi is pretty darn effective through 4-5 innings, which is a surprisingly uncommon thing these days.

 

I'm done with Gibson, I've seen enough. He can go get overpaid elsewhere.

Odorizzi is going to get a big deal this winter, likely something around 4-5 years and I would rather see the Twins go acquire someone else of his caliber via trade (like they did when they got Odo in the first place).

I agree about signing Pineda and Odo. Gibson is a great person, but a mediocre pitcher. Time for a youth movement and some free agents. 

They will re-sign Pineda and Gibson for 2-3 years but Odo will get a much larger deal than the Twins will be willing to pay.

If I’m Pineda I would be looking for something longer than 2 years and given the dearth of quality starting pitching, someone will give it to him even with his injury history. It might be rather heavily IP incentive laden or maybe it kicks up higher if he meets an IP threshold, maybe a 4th year is guaranteed with an IP threshold, but I think the last thing he would want is another short deal and to be hitting FA again at 33.

I would look into re-signing Odorizzi and Pineda - I think both can be a bit underrated, and Pineda might improve in his second year after TJ surgery. Odorizzi is pretty darn effective through 4-5 innings, which is a surprisingly uncommon thing these days.

 

I'm done with Gibson, I've seen enough. He can go get overpaid elsewhere.

Per above, Odorizzi has 7 quality starts in 23 tries. He's not underrated and there's no way he's good for 5 innings as you say.

Gibson is better, but he's practically geriatric considering his ability. May as well find a younger option than Gibson and let Odorizzi walk too.

Agreed, Pineda is critical and my number two starter of the rotation. For 2020 they must improve on that, but should still bring him back if they can.

I take issue with the quality start stat. Relative to the MLB, Twins are second in Starter Innings pitches to Cleveland and fourth in earned run average. 5th in whip, 9th in K/9. While I prefer k rate and FIP over k/9 and ERA, and I’m too lazy to dig harder, it appears the Twins rotation is still well above average compared to the other 30.

It’s the bullpen! Yeah I’d prefer a stronger number 2 starter than Pineda, and do not trust Gibson or Perez. I’m still real worried about that bullpen.

The bullpen will be fine. A back end trio of Rogers-Romo-Dyson with a mid tier of May-Duffey-Littell is not bad. The starters have to get to the sixth inning and beyond for the bullpen to succeed.

If I’m Pineda I would be looking for something longer than 2 years and given the dearth of quality starting pitching, someone will give it to him even with his injury history. It might be rather heavily IP incentive laden or maybe it kicks up higher if he meets an IP threshold, maybe a 4th year is guaranteed with an IP threshold, but I think the last thing he would want is another short deal and to be hitting FA again at 33.

I wonder if the Twins would be willing to go 3 years $42 million or something around there. It'll be interesting.

The Twins guaranteed Pineda $10 mil without knowing if he would ever really be healthy enough to pitch at all let alone pitch well.

I would guarantee $33 mil for 3 years, $500 K incentives every 10 IP starting at 150 (which he has this year) and guarantee a 4th year at $12 mil if he hits 350 IP in 2021-2022 combined.

The Twins guaranteed Pineda $10 mil without knowing if he would ever really be healthy enough to pitch at all let alone pitch well.

I would guarantee $33 mil for 3 years, $500 K incentives every 10 IP starting at 150 (which he has this year) and guarantee a 4th year at $12 mil if he hits 350 IP in 2021-2022 combined.

I like it. That seems fair for both sides, I just wonder if the Twins would be willing to go more than two years.

I like it. That seems fair for both sides, I just wonder if the Twins would be willing to go more than two years.

If the Twins want starting pitchers next year, they are going to have to offer at least one of them (Gibson, Odorizzi, Pineda) three years.

all the starters have to do, is do something even the best rotation in baseball doesn’t do. Cleveland averages 5.75 innnings per start and they haven’t worn down yet in the post season. Twins are second 5.68 ip/start and Houston is number 3 at 5.6 ip/start.

Bullpens win championships.

This is a better bp than before the deadline, and is OK, not good enough, but maybe they can find internal reinforcements.

Rotation wise, Berrios, Pineda, and Odorizzi are it. Best to pray for health!

Ok I don't mean get six innings every time, but recently it has just not been happening at all. Also, the Red Sox had an one of the worst playoff bullpens last year that had a couple guys step up in a big way and won the world series. Bullpens don't win championships. Starting pitching and offense do.

"I wonder what he would look like surfing...?"

I'm pretty sure his face would be exactly the same as it is in the article's photo. What a gem!

3 at least, probably 4... They'll need to outbid the usual suspects too.

I don’t believe any starting pitcher over 30 signed for more than 3 years last year. And I think only 2-3 were longer than 3 years at all, headlined by Patrick Corbin.

It's amazing how I went from the beginning of the season thinking "Oh crap Pineda is pitching today" to now thinking "Thank god Pineda is pitching today"

I would look into re-signing Odorizzi and Pineda - I think both can be a bit underrated, and Pineda might improve in his second year after TJ surgery. Odorizzi is pretty darn effective through 4-5 innings, which is a surprisingly uncommon thing these days.

 

I'm done with Gibson, I've seen enough. He can go get overpaid elsewhere.

Agreed on both accounts. Though I question if Pineda can stay healthy. Even before TJ, that was his issue.

I'd offer Odo a qualifying offer. It's overpaying, but they have room in the books next year and he'd be foolish not to take it given the FA market the past 2 years.

I would love to see Pineda get a deal around 2 years for $25 million. I would expect we re-sign Gibson as well.

I'm on board with 2 years. As I just said, his injury history is a concern. But no way I'd go over 2 years without some kind of insurance, option, or incentives.

I think the Twins need to make a push to sign all three of their free agent pitchers.  IMHO, Perez would be better suited for a BP role or SP option as part of 6 guys who can fill that role.  This year, like nearly every year previously, has proven a major league team needs more than 5 starters.  Other than Brusder and Smeltzer, I don;t see a lot of major league ready starting pitching in the minors.