Ervin Santana Suspended 80 Games For Steroids

ChiTownTwinsFan, on 03 Apr 2015 - 8:38 PM, said:
There were others. But I don't recall who.

 

Cuddy, Dustan Mohr for a couple. 

?? Is this a declaration the you are claiming that Michael Cuddyer and Dustan Mohr admitted that they were taking PED's while they were with the Twins? Or that you are just claiming that they were? 

I wonder what it smelled like.

Team Spirit.

So you think they should release Vargas too?

Apples with Pineapples.  Vargas tested positive for what the Williamses did, Phentermine, which is in weight control "supplements" that are legitimately sold OTC in this country.  He did not test positive for synthetic testosterone that has doping as  its only use.

There was someone else ... earlier ... who admitted to using well after, and took a roster spot from someone else. I can't remember who it was but it was a pitcher. Maybe in the 90s or earlier in the 2000s? It was before testing in the 'turn a blind eye' era.

There were a couple named in the Mitchell Report:  Dan Naulty, and the current Chattanooga Lookouts Hitting Coach

Apples with Pineapples.  Vargas tested positive for what the Williamses did, Phentermine, which is in weight control "supplements" that are legitimately sold OTC in this country.  He did not test positive for synthetic testosterone that has doping as  its only use.

Thanks for posting, that post you responded to bothered me a lot.  A lot of PEDs are on the WADA no-no list, but they aren't all created equal.

Did I say they admitted it?

I am sorry, I couldn't tell. That is why I was curious and asking you to clarify. The conversation with ChiTownTwinsFan started with him saying, other than Rincon, there was someone else......:

ChiTownTwinsFan, on 03 Apr 2015 - 8:38 PM, said:
There were others. But I don't recall who.

Then he also added a little bit later....... 

ChiTownTwinsFan, on 03 April 2015 - 08:53 PM

"There was someone else ... earlier ... who admitted to using well after, and took a roster spot from someone else. I can't remember who it was but it was a pitcher. Maybe in the 90s or earlier in the 2000s? It was before testing in the 'turn a blind eye' era.

and then....

ChiTownTwinsFan, on 03 April 2015 - 09:15 PM

This was before that, before testing. He wasn't caught, but he admitted to it after his career was done."

Then you posted with the first post in quotes:

Halsey Hall, on 04 Apr 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

----------ChiTownTwinsFan, on 03 Apr 2015 - 8:38 PM, said:
----------There were others. But I don't recall who.
Cuddy, Dustan Mohr for a couple.

....... and followed it with 

Halsey Hall, on 04 Apr 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:
Dan Naulty was the player who admitted using years after he retired.

spycake comfirmed, and added matt lawton was busted after leaving the Twins............. 

so........

I had never heard of Cuddyer or Mohr either having admitted to, or even been suspected of or included in any rumors of using PED's. I am am asking a legitimate question (two questions, actually). I am surely not trying to say what you said, but as the conversation included talk of "admitting to later", I was asking what you are saying so I don't misunderstand:

h2oface, on 04 Apr 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

"?? Is this a declaration that you are claiming that Michael Cuddyer and Dustan Mohr admitted that they were taking PED's while they were with the Twins? Or that you are just claiming that they were?"

which brings me to the answer that this post started with, which wasn't an answer to either question, but another question in answer to two questions:

Halsey Hall, on 04 Apr 2015 - 1:51 PM, said:
Did I say they admitted it?

To give you an answer........ I guess not, from this question answer to one of my questions. But I am not trying to say you did...... I am just asking for a clarification, if you would like to offer one. As I have never heard of Cuddyer ever being implicated of using PED's, it is news to me, and I don't want to misunderstand. I would also love to know, if it is true, how and when Cuddyer was implicated. Thanks.

To imply the twins should have "known" about this is pretty silly. It's not like he suddenly gained 3 MPh on his fastball or put on 20 pounds of muscle. Anything less then literally going through his garbage (though that probably wouldn't even matter) isn't going to give them any info on his using this PED.

With Santana pitching with (and signed for 4 years with) a partially torn UCL for the last 6 plus years....... the PED might be why he has lasted this long.

My thoughts exactly, what kind of pitcher can we expect Santana to be sans steroids?

To imply the twins should have "known" about this is pretty silly. It's not like he suddenly gained 3 MPh on his fastball or put on 20 pounds of muscle. Anything less then literally going through his garbage (though that probably wouldn't even matter) isn't going to give them any info on his using this PED.

Matt Garza is the same ticking time bomb yet continues to be a good starter.
 
I wasn't entirely sold on the Santana signing when it happened but now that he's been busted for steroids, I'm not going to ex postfacto my argument to make me look better and the Twins worse.

 

Ervin Santana has been an MLB player for a decade. First, he should know better than to take something that might contain banned substances (provided he didn't do it on purpose) and second, there's no friggin' way the Twins are expected to know that a guy who has been in the league for a decade and has never been busted for PEDs is, in actuality, a PED risk.

 

There is one person to blame for this Ervin Santana situation:

 

ERVIN SANTANA.

 

This forum and some of the posters on it drive me up the wall some days. There are plenty of reasons to be frustrated with the front office right now, you don't need to go manufacture reasons that involve Terry Ryan being a psychic, soothsayer, and reader of &^%$ing tea leaves.

 

Argh blargh. I'm glad I'm leaving the continent for two weeks tomorrow.

Well then, I guess Nick Nelson's article must strike you both as silly and driving you up a wall, as well.     Nick asks a lot of questions, admittedly ex post facto, but still, questions that might have been more fleshed out when a team is considering its largest ever FA signing and committing at least $55M.  First, you obviously haven't read up on the beneficial effects of stanozolol- this is easily obtainable with one mouse click- and doesn't involve outsized freak-muscles developed overnight.  "No friggin way"?  Nick certainly shows a way that the deal might have been questioned, and how the pieces of suspicion were there...   and even though it's all admittedly speculation, there were and are red flags all over this deal.  --- Due to his delicate elbow situation, the pressures and temptations to prolong his career in any way possible over the last two seasons- pitching on the thin margin of here-today/gone tomorrow one-year deals- must have been enormous.  

Much of the best detective work in getting to the truth in cases is greatly aided by going through people's garbage.  And the "detectives" employing this technique runs the gamut- from archaeologists to insurance investigators to workmen's comp lawyers to law enforcement officers to private investigators- 

"Why Garbage Can Be A Goldmine"     

Hiring an investigative firm to do thorough background checks is a pretty inexpensive means at ensuring the viability of a $55M deal.  I'm sure the Twins did something along these lines, obviously it wasn't thorough enough if Santana has been a user in years past, and given the current CBA agreement, there's practically nothing they could have done about it if he only started PED usage after he signed the new contract- but that seems unlikely.

Yes, this is on Santana, and it appears he, and likely, his agent, perpetrated a fraud on the Twins.  But given the bilker's built-in advantages in negotiating guaranteed contracts despite the fraud, the onus is even more on the Twins to avoid being suckered.