The Twins Should Be Embarrassed to Be Outspent by the Royals

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

They were coming out of a pandemic in 2021 and businesses all over were struggling to get people to return. Not to mention the social situation in Minneapolis at that time and the concern a large number of people had for their safety when going to downtown Minneapolis at that time. I don't think 2021 is a great example of "winning doesn't really help." Way more factors that went into that time period in Minneapolis.

Bottom line unfortunately for their finances relative to the other teams revenue from home games hasn’t been very good over the last 5 years in spite of 3 pretty good seasons.

5 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Tampa should be embarrassed. They take money from other teams and pocket it, never trying to get over the hump. Why any fan would root for teams to under pay players so billionaires can have more money is mind boggling. 

How is Tampa underpaying players?

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

There's a zero percent chance we'll agree on this, and I no longer argue for the sake of arguing on social media, so I'll just bow out of this conversation.

We don't have to agree for you to explain your position.  Tampa can't possibly underpay players.  The free agency system negates that potential.  They elect not to invest heavily in free agents.  Their investments they have made in free agents like Morton and Eflin have been wise and their success makes it very difficult to argue they don't know what they are doing or that they don't put a good product on the field.  They understand the underlinable fact that they have to produce far more per dollar spent than most of the league and they manage assets accordingly.

BTW .... if there were no subsidies, owners would not elect to make less.  They would pay players less unless you believe that players would not play for two-thirds of what they make.  Given you don't have to go back far to get to a point where they made one-third of what they do today, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion.   

Sick and tired of this team pissing away windows of opportunity. Sign Montgomery and get it done!

We needed a #2 pitcher and a RH bat in LF. Santana & Desclafini do NOT qualify!

18 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

They produced less revenue because of greed?  You are going to need to elaborate on this one.

Yes, because the Pohlad's prioritize short term profits over long term sustainability - due to greed - they refuse to consistently invest appropriately in the product on the field, leading to a lesser product and accordingly less attendance/revenue.

Do you think revenue is static?  There's X amount of dollars in each market and the team gets that X every year regardless of success, marketing, etc?  Please explain then how the 1988 Twins drew 3 million fans and the 2023 Twins drew under 2 million.

15 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Yes, because the Pohlad's prioritize short term profits over long term sustainability - due to greed - they refuse to consistently invest appropriately in the product on the field, leading to a lesser product and accordingly less attendance/revenue.

Do you think revenue is static?  There's X amount of dollars in each market and the team gets that X every year regardless of success, marketing, etc?  Please explain then how the 1988 Twins drew 3 million fans and the 2023 Twins drew under 2 million.

I suspect like every other business greed is a motivating factor.  If they felt additional investment would make them more money, they would invest. That's what billionaires do.  With few exceptions all of the other teams in the same revenue range operate the same way,  If you fell you are more skilled at assessing these opportunities than all of these billion owners and the analysts that work for them, good for you.  There is a $500K job waiting for you if you don't already have one.

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

  With few exceptions all of the other teams in the same revenue range operate the same way,  

This is so laughably false you can't possibly believe it.  The Dbacks have the same situation as the Twins this offseason and chose to invest.  The Padres, in a much smaller market, made major investments a couple years ago.  The Royals, much smaller market, just spent $300 mil and have the highest payroll in the Central.  Not to mention the Cardinals, probably the best comparable to the Twins in terms of market.  Their business model for decades has been long term sustainability - I think last year was the first time in 20 years they were below 500 - and as a result they have one of the most loyal fanbases in the sport and a very consistent revenue stream.  These teams made drastically different business decisions than the Pohlads, who chose to pocket the unanticipated playoff revenue, cut payroll, make the team worse, and dampen the enthusiasm of a fan base who just witness the first playoff win in decades.  

On 2/5/2024 at 3:40 PM, chpettit19 said:

I don't know if embarrassing is the right word, but it certainly doesn't make me thrilled that the Twins are seeing their competitive window open and are choosing to slash payroll instead of trying to take advantage of a super weak division. KC and Detroit are trying. I know we all like to point at the young Twins players and say we're golden because they're going to improve, but those teams have young guys that should improve as well. Along with Cleveland. I think our perceived superiority in the central is overstated. I think it's a tighter race than people expect.

Not because those other 3 teams are great, but because the Twins aren't either. Cleveland won this division going away in 2022 with young talent that was certain to improve and give them the chance to dominate this division. The Twins standing pat and making no overall improvement to the 2024 team has kept the door open for the other teams to make a run. If I believed Twins ownership cared about winning I'd say they should be embarrassed. But I don't think that's their priority so I don't think it's the right word for them. But it certainly isn't encouraging as a fan that they're getting outspent by KC and we're watching 2 other division teams at least make noticeable efforts to improve their team overall while the Twins seem to be content shifting pieces around while not increasing their overall talent. We'll see who's young talent is able to carry them this year. I think it'll be more of a battle than folks expect.

Not great, but Royals are having to market a better team for getting the new stadium.  We are having RSN issues.  Yes it is not great, but its the world we are living in.  Cleveland has done much less than us and have talked about trading their closer that they have under control for 5 more years - they are also dealing with the RSN issues.  

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

This is so laughably false you can't possibly believe it.  The Dbacks have the same situation as the Twins this offseason and chose to invest.  The Padres, in a much smaller market, made major investments a couple years ago.  The Royals, much smaller market, just spent $300 mil and have the highest payroll in the Central.  Not to mention the Cardinals, probably the best comparable to the Twins in terms of market.  Their business model for decades has been long term sustainability - I think last year was the first time in 20 years they were below 500 - and as a result they have one of the most loyal fanbases in the sport and a very consistent revenue stream.  These teams made drastically different business decisions than the Pohlads, who chose to pocket the unanticipated playoff revenue, cut payroll, make the team worse, and dampen the enthusiasm of a fan base who just witness the first playoff win in decades.  

A one year snapshot, especially given the TV situation, does not provide an accurate view of spending.  Where are these other teams coming from and how was their paroll allocated.  Over the last 5 years, the Twins have spent $596M, the Royals $412M, and the Dbacks 382.  The Dbacks and Royals were due to finals spend.

The Dbacks were not in the same situation as the twins.  The twins had already made long-term investments.  The Dbacks top 10 players made $52M in 2023.  The Twins top 10 made $118M.

The Royals do not have the largest payroll in the central.  They are at $111M including the $10M in dead money to Dozier and the Twins are at $116M.  (See Spotrac)  

The Cardinals average 80-100M more in revenue which is the only measurable that matters until players start accepting market size as compensation.  

The Padres had an owner that knew his time on earth was very limited.  I think we can call that an anomaly and it was hardly an example of success.  What did they do with that payroll this year after his death?  They cut $100M.
 

18 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

A one year snapshot, especially given the TV situation, does not provide an accurate view of spending.  Where are these other teams coming from and how was their paroll allocated.  Over the last 5 years, the Twins have spent $596M, the Royals $412M, and the Dbacks 382.  The Dbacks and Royals were due to finals spend.

The Dbacks were not in the same situation as the twins.  The twins had already made long-term investments.  The Dbacks top 10 players made $52M in 2023.  The Twins top 10 made $118M.

The Royals do not have the largest payroll in the central.  They are at $111M including the $10M in dead money to Dozier and the Twins are at $116M.  (See Spotrac)  

The Cardinals average 80-100M more in revenue which is the only measurable that matters until players start accepting market size as compensation.  

The Padres had an owner that knew his time on earth was very limited.  I think we can call that an anomaly and it was hardly an example of success.  What did they do with that payroll this year after his death?  They cut $100M.
 

Yes, a well run franchise like St Louis, in a smaller market than us, that invests in winning and treats fans well, generates more revenue than the slash-and-burn "blame fans for the losing" strategy employed here.  Glad we agree!