Article: Ken Rosenthal Reporting Gardenhire Extended Two Years

[orangevening]

Mod note: Please don't make posts personal to other posters. Even when provoked by a post that seems to beg for it.

 

My vote for funniest "mod note" ever.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Get him his 1,000 wins next year and fire him ASAP. When I read the news the afternoon, I could only imagine how up in arms everybody here got. Personally, I was on the verge of tears. I was in public so I had to hold myself up. The absolute worst part is Ullger and Anderson have, oh I don't know, a 98% chance of coming back too.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

With Gardy managing the team, Buxton will probably end up like B.J. Upton and Sano will be deported following news he lied about his identity and age.

[NoCal]

This is a very surly bunch tonight. Frankly, I imagine that Andy and Gardy are pretty good at managing a baseball roster. They just don't have a very good supply of talent. The Twins tend to go in cycles that depend on infusions of talent via the draft; if you are a successful team for 5-6 years, that infusion diminishes, due to draft selections beginning with the 22nd best player available. The well dries up, injuries and misfortune occurs, and soon your organization is struggling. Maybe, like Cleveland and Baltimore, after many years of losing, you make some good trades, you get some good return on your FA investment, and you get a couple of years of being competitive. This blog has a very impatient bunch of subscribers. Knowledgeable, opinionated, smart - but impatient. Cleveland, Baltimore, Tampa Bay - they had many, many losing seasons. The pleasure comes when you hang in there, and then get to revel in success. Lets avoid the Howard S. pessimism -

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

This is a very surly bunch tonight. Frankly, I imagine that Andy and Gardy are pretty good at managing a baseball roster. They just don't have a very good supply of talent.

 

Anderson couldn't develop Liriano, Hendriks, and I sure don't want Gibson and Meyer to be the next victims. We've finished last in the MLB for what, 3 years now? Two for sure.

[John Bonnes]

This is a very surly bunch tonight.

 

Considering the decision, I think that was to be expected. Had he been fired, I think we would have heard a lot more from the other side.

 

I think you did a good job of laying out the case for retaining him Gardy, and I think that's a reasonable position. The rhetoric is a lot easier in the other direction, fueled by three years of frustration and especially a brutal finish to the season. But I think given some distance, both sides can see the other's viewpoint.

[Thrylos]

This blog has a very impatient bunch of subscribers. Knowledgeable, opinionated, smart - but impatient.

 

Impatient?

 

1991

 

That was 22 years ago. A generation ago. How more patience do you need?

[LaBombo]

This is a very surly bunch tonight. Frankly, I imagine that Andy and Gardy are pretty good at managing a baseball roster. They just don't have a very good supply of talent.

Every other organization would fire him based solely on losing nearly 300 in three years.

 

Only eight times in nearly 70 years has a manager been brought back after 3x90+ losing seasons. Only legendary Hall of Famer Casey Stengel had a worse record than Gardy over those three seasons.

 

And in each of those 8 instances the team lost at least 93 games the following season, with the average clocking in at over 100 losses. All but three fired the manager during the following season, and only Kelly managed his team again after the fourth consecutive 90+ loss season.

 

So it's not that Gardenhire's a bad manager, it's just that he has no business managing the Twins next year. Teams never give managers with that kind of three year record another chance, and if they do, it's never produced anything but another disaster. That's not pessimism, it's the overwhelming evidence of history.

 

There are sure to be some things to get excited about in 2014, but Gardenhire returning is definitely not one of them.

[CharacterGroove]

Every other organization would fire him based solely on losing nearly 300 in three years.

 

Only eight times in nearly 70 years has a manager been brought back after 3x90+ losing seasons. Only legendary Hall of Famer Casey Stengel had a worse record than Gardy over those three seasons.

 

And in each of those 8 instances the team lost at least 93 games the following season, with the average clocking in at over 100 losses. All but three fired the manager during the following season, and only Kelly managed his team again after the fourth consecutive 90+ loss season.

 

So it's not that Gardenhire's a bad manager, it's just that he has no business managing the Twins next year. Teams never give managers with that kind of three year record another chance, and if they do, it's never produced anything but another disaster. That's not pessimism, it's the overwhelming evidence of history.

 

There are sure to be some things to get excited about in 2014, but Gardenhire returning is definitely not one of them.

 

What's the average number of losses in year #4 for those teams that chose a new manager?

 

My guess is probably something similar, but I'm very curious to know.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Barrero said it, and I'm in agreement, Gardy has the best job in the world. Team loses 90 plus games three years in a row and it's someone else's fault . If the team still sucks in 2014 it will still be someone else's fault, but if he manages to pull together a decent season he's a hero. There's no down side, and no accountability to bringing him back. Status quo sucks and I'm really disappointed that this team will do nothing to change.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

don't insult the new leadership in the Wild like that....they just signed two of the largest contracts in all of sports last year......

 

And, I don't buy this whole "suits vs jeans" argument that "suits" are not real fans.....but I agree with the rest of that.

It took the Wild a new GM and a new coaching staff to figure out how to rebuild too. Don't forget that the Wild had a dwindling attendance in a new building after several years of sucking. The Twins (and the Pohlads) have made no moves. We've seen how TR operates, we've seen how Gardy manages, we've seen three years of horrendous baseball preceded by crapping the bed in the first round of the playoffs. No one can be blamed for wanting the Twins to follow suit of the Orioles , Indians, and Wild. At least we'd have hope.

[blairpaul715]

This is a very surly bunch tonight. Frankly, I imagine that Andy and Gardy are pretty good at managing a baseball roster. They just don't have a very good supply of talent. The Twins tend to go in cycles that depend on infusions of talent via the draft; if you are a successful team for 5-6 years, that infusion diminishes, due to draft selections beginning with the 22nd best player available. The well dries up, injuries and misfortune occurs, and soon your organization is struggling. Maybe, like Cleveland and Baltimore, after many years of losing, you make some good trades, you get some good return on your FA investment, and you get a couple of years of being competitive. This blog has a very impatient bunch of subscribers. Knowledgeable, opinionated, smart - but impatient. Cleveland, Baltimore, Tampa Bay - they had many, many losing seasons. The pleasure comes when you hang in there, and then get to revel in success. Lets avoid the Howard S. pessimism -

 

Cleveland, Baltimore and Tampa all made managerial changes that brought about a new attitude. Starts with ownership and a GM with ba--s

[jokin]

Cleveland, Baltimore and Tampa all made managerial changes that brought about a new attitude. Starts with ownership and a GM with ba--s

 

And the Red Sox.

[jokin]

Lets avoid the Howard S. pessimism -

 

Given that he's lived, slept and eaten Twins home cooking in various capacities for some 30 years- through all of the ups and downs during that time, for many of us, it's not pessimism to avoid and merely stick our heads in the sand until it somehow gets all better at some undetermined point in time.....it's realism to embrace and a demand for substantive changes to be made and previous promises kept.

[glunn]

And really the worst part about this whole thing...is that Mayer, Sano, Buxton, Rosario and others are all gonna have to get broken into the majors by a man who hates rookies and young players.

 

Moderator note -- this is at best an exaggeration. Please read the TD policy sticky thread about "trolling." I share the opinion that Gardy has not done a great job with rookies and young players, but to say that he "hates" them is unprovable and inflammatory.

[glunn]

Considering the decision, I think that was to be expected. Had he been fired, I think we would have heard a lot more from the other side.

 

I think you did a good job of laying out the case for retaining him Gardy, and I think that's a reasonable position. The rhetoric is a lot easier in the other direction, fueled by three years of frustration and especially a brutal finish to the season. But I think given some distance, both sides can see the other's viewpoint.

 

I was deeply disappointed. I was hoping that the Twins and Gardy could mutually agree not to renew Gardy's contract. I was hoping for some new blood from a winning organization, like the A's or the Rays.

 

That said, I will remain a steadfast Twins fan for life and continue to care about my fellow Twins fans and respect the fact that some of them disagree with me. I wish that Gardy was gone, but hope that he justifies the confidence that some of my brothers have in him.

[ashbury]

sorry... haters is the word nowadays, isn't it ?

 

[LaBombo]

What's the average number of losses in year #4 for those teams that chose a new manager?

 

My guess is probably something similar, but I'm very curious to know.

Mine too. Those teams were probably all bad for many reasons besides the manager.

 

But the point of including that loss number was not to imply that the franchise could pull a winner out of its posterior simply by changing managers. It was to illustrate the futility of the 'stay the course' mentality, which more often than not simply results in the panicked decision to change managers in midseason, or at best delays the inevitable til the end of the following season.

[CharacterGroove]

Mine too. Those teams were probably all bad for many reasons besides the manager.

 

But the point of including that loss number was not to imply that the franchise could pull a winner out of its posterior simply by changing managers. It was to illustrate the futility of the 'stay the course' mentality, which more often than not simply results in the panicked decision to change managers in midseason, or at best delays the inevitable til the end of the following season.

 

I agree with you. It also shows a certain shortsightedness to this decision. Next year at this time everybody's revisiting yesterday.

 

It's possible Gardenhire beats the odds, but it'll be ugly if he doesn't get close.

 

(Of course part of the game will be how the advertise expectations. I anticipate a lot of young guys and being told to be patient.)

[LaBombo]

I agree with you. It also shows a certain shortsightedness to this decision. Next year at this time everybody's revisiting yesterday.

 

It's possible Gardenhire beats the odds, but it'll be ugly if he doesn't get close.

 

(Of course part of the game will be how the advertise expectations. I anticipate a lot of young guys and being told to be patient.)

Sounds about right.

 

Not rooting for him to fail, but the odds are against him. If the Twins are already thinking about season ticket sales after 2013, it's hard to see him getting to manage the wonderkids in 2015 if next season looks anything like this one, regardless of his contract.

 

But if he turns out to be the only guy besides TK in over 70 years with 3x90 losses who turns out to be more than a one year stopgap, good on him. He's already the second most tenured manager in baseball, so anything is possible.

 

And if not, maybe the decision to retain him will lead to a much more widespread housecleaning than just a new manager, one that starts as close to the top as practical.

[JB_Iowa]

They may already have a gentleman's agreement for him (Gardy) to step aside if next year is another disaster although he does seem pretty stubborn about staying the course.

[LaBombo]

They may already have a gentleman's agreement for him (Gardy) to step aside if next year is another disaster although he does seem pretty stubborn about staying the course.

Probably. And maybe some sort of 'Senior Consultant of Looking Out the Window' job, which is fine unless they remove the personnel decision ball gag.

[jokin]

Probably. And maybe some sort of 'Senior Consultant of Looking Out the Window' job, which is fine unless they remove the personnel decision ball gag.

 

Doesn't Bill Smith already have that position filled?

[jokin]

Sounds about right.

 

Not rooting for him to fail, but the odds are against him. If the Twins are already thinking about season ticket sales after 2013, it's hard to see him getting to manage the wonderkids in 2015 if next season looks anything like this one, regardless of his contract.

 

But if he turns out to be the only guy besides TK in over 70 years with 3x90 losses who turns out to be more than a one year stopgap, good on him. He's already the second most tenured manager in baseball, so anything is possible.

 

And if not, maybe the decision to retain him will lead to a much more widespread housecleaning than just a new manager, one that starts as close to the top as practical.

 

Jim Pohlad's cryptic responses (seemingly at odds with what the others were espousing) at yesterday's press conference, as well as his 2 "humor-fail" statements that mocked, rather than congratulated Gardy on his extension, tells me that you're on to something, here. I'm thinking the entire crew got "one last chance" and that sweeping changes will have to be instituted after next year's 4th consecutive 96+ loss season.

[LaBombo]

Doesn't Bill Smith already have that position filled?

Yup, but for an organizational soldier like Gardy, they'll make room with a BS promotion.

I'm thinking Vice President of the Franchise Impact and Momentum Research Department.

 

http://www.stockpodium.com/stock-photo-8787332/metal-pendulum-balls-balancing-strings-image.jpg

Window office included.

[jokin]

Yup, but for an organizational soldier like Gardy, they'll make room with a BS promotion.

I'm thinking Vice President of the Franchise Impact and Momentum Research Department.

 

http://www.stockpodium.com/stock-photo-8787332/metal-pendulum-balls-balancing-strings-image.jpg

Window office included.

 

Yup....that's a BS promotion, all right!