Say it ain't so.....

[twinsnorth49]

I am with Brock on this. I would like to see the rest of his list and am wondering why Guardians of the Galaxy did not make the first cut.

 

As for Aflek playing Batman, this is a superhero movie not Hamlet.

Would make my first cut, if only for the soundtrack.

 

Afleck even in a costume is just wrong.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Watched Winter Soldier again last night. IMO, it's still the best Marvel film because it's both a quality film and a film that sticks to the themes of its characters. GotG may be second... Hard to say. Lots of competition there.

Also, Deadpool was very enjoyable. It started to wear a bit thin through the middle but finished strong. Not a great movie but definitely worth watching, if only for the opening credits and Negasonic Teenage Warhead, who I'm convinced is in the film simply for her name (and in a proper Deadpool film, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to include a character).

[Brock Beauchamp]

As I said way back when, I have no problems with Affleck being Batman.

 

It's everything else that suggests this movie will suck hard.

 

Once again, it appears that Snyder is trying to make a movie with visual whizbangery but still doesn't understand what makes a movie great is its characters. Audiences don't care about Batman and Superman slugging it out, they care about the broken friendship that led to them slugging it out. That's what made The Dark Knight Returns so powerful and why it resonates with audiences to this day. You can't lead a franchise with DKR; you need to nurture that friendship so its dissolution has impact. BvS should be the tenth movie in the franchise, not the first. They're wasting one of the best stories in the history of comic books by not understanding why readers love it so much.

 

Meanwhile, Marvel gets it. Captain America: Civil War is more Dark Knight Returns than is Batman v. Superman. Marvel spent the time and did the legwork to make audiences care about both Iron Man and Cap, which makes the coming battle mean something. In BvS, it's just two guys hitting each other a lot. Whoop dee doo.

 

Zach Snyder shouldn't be the one heading the DC film franchise. He's not a good storyteller. Go find someone with a little patience, someone who understands the source material and what makes it great.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Watched Winter Soldier again last night. IMO, it's still the best Marvel film because it's both a quality film and a film that sticks to the themes of its characters. GotG may be second... Hard to say. Lots of competition there.

Also, Deadpool was very enjoyable. It started to wear a bit thin through the middle but finished strong. Not a great movie but definitely worth watching, if only for the opening credits and Negasonic Teenage Warhead, who I'm convinced is in the film simply for her name (and in a proper Deadpool film, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to include a character).

 

Yeah, they chose that character because the budget didn't allow for anyone significant so they picked out some D-list X-character instead.  Hard to believe they made that movie with 58M, that's a helluva profit margin.

[nicksaviking]

Affleck as Batman doesn't bother me, Superman movies bother me though. That's movies plural.

 

I liked the original with Christopher Reeves, and Man of Steel wasn't bad (well except for the parts that were bad), but Superman really isn't good movie material outside of an origin story + maybe one other film.

 

I mean, the guy was created in the 30's as an indestructible super human with about every super power conceivable. Story telling was considerably simpler when one thinks it's target audience is 12-year-olds and only 12-year-olds. Little did they know.

 

Writers have to go a looooooooooong way to come up with anything close to legit reasons for Superman to be put in peril. That batsuit better be made of Kryptonite or any believable scenario where Batman and Superman would have a fair fight is laughable.

 

And if your only solutions for putting Superman in peril are Kryptonite or comparable aliens, you got about two movies worth of adversity for the guy before you start repeating yourself, and this makes for movie number 2.

[Mike Sixel]

Maybe SM should be less the platonic ideal, maybe that would make him more interesting.

 

but yes, it is hard for there to be any good story, if he's basically indestructible.....

[SweetOne69]

I agree.  The progression that DC is doing in going from Man of Steel to BvS is equivalent to Marvel going straight from Iron Man to Age of Ultron.

 

BvS isn't just Batman vs. Superman, they are introducing 7 future Members of the Justice League (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Cyborg, The Flash, ????).

 

BvS is more for DC fans whereas Marvel laid there plan out for everyone to jump in.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Affleck as Batman doesn't bother me, Superman movies bother me though. That's movies plural.

 

I liked the original with Christopher Reeves, and Man of Steel wasn't bad (well except for the parts that were bad), but Superman really isn't good movie material outside of an origin story + maybe one other film.

 

I mean, the guy was created in the 30's as an indestructible super human with about every super power conceivable. Story telling was considerably simpler when one thinks it's target audience is 12-year-olds and only 12-year-olds. Little did they know.

 

Writers have to go a looooooooooong way to come up with anything close to legit reasons for Superman to be put in peril. That batsuit better be made of Kryptonite or any believable scenario where Batman and Superman would have a fair fight is laughable.

 

And if your only solutions for putting Superman in peril are Kryptonite or comparable aliens, you got about two movies worth of adversity for the guy before you start repeating yourself, and this makes for movie number 2.

There are plenty of good Superman stories to be told - after all, his legacy has spanned nearly 80 years and 2,000+ comic books - but what most film writers miss is that the best Superman stories are often about internal conflict, not external conflict. Richard Donner got it, nobody else really has since then.

 

Because, as you said, it's really hard to present a reasonable external conflict for Superman. You can do that a few times - physically through Doomsday, mentally through Brainiac, politically through Luthor, etc - but the well runs dry rather quickly.

 

Which is why they've ****ed up so badly with BvS. The Dark Knight Returns is about the internal conflict between Superman and Batman, how their world views have drifted so far apart that conflict is inevitable. Two former friends forced to fight each other because one world view has to die for the other to thrive.

 

And that's why it's a horrible decision to lead with that story. All of that internal conflict - the really important stuff that fuels the narrative - is missing. That leaves you with only the lopsided external conflict, which isn't very engaging.

 

A fantastic example of this is Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman. It's a 12 issue mini-series where Superman discovers he's dying and has 12 months to right as many wrongs as possible before he passes on. It's all about Superman and what drives him to do right by a world that hasn't always treated him fairly. And it's ****ing fantastic.

[TheLeviathan]

Didn't one Superman movie throw a whole planet of Kryptonite at Superman and the son of a gun still survived?

 

I've never understood the appeal of Superman.  I'm sure some people have written some good stuff, but the very essence of the character couldn't be less interesting to me.  Human fragility and super-heroism is the at the core of why I enjoy comics and Superman runs counter to that.

[Craig Arko]

The best part of Superman was Chris Reeve. Since then it's all been downhill.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Didn't one Superman movie throw a whole planet of Kryptonite at Superman and the son of a gun still survived?

 

I've never understood the appeal of Superman.  I'm sure some people have written some good stuff, but the very essence of the character couldn't be less interesting to me.  Human fragility and super-heroism is the at the core of why I enjoy comics and Superman runs counter to that.

I've never been a big fan of Superman myself but having read many of his stories over the years, I realize the character has potential in the right hands. I also like my superheroes more fragile and human but when done right, Superman can be compelling. He's a tricky character, one that few people seem to understand how to write properly.

 

As for your first sentence, that could be Supes III or IV but I've successfully wiped those movies from my memory so I'm not sure.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The best part of Superman was Chris Reeve. Since then it's all been downhill.

The best part of Superman was Richard Donner because he left, Reeves stayed, and the movies sucked hard.

[jimmer]

Daredevil Season 2 is getting close. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I've never been a big fan of Superman myself but having read many of his stories over the years, I realize the character has potential in the right hands. I also like my superheroes more fragile and human but when done right, Superman can be compelling. He's a tricky character, one that few people seem to understand how to write properly.

 

As for your first sentence, that could be Supes III or IV but I've successfully wiped those movies from my memory so I'm not sure.

 

Some of the best writing in comic books in the last decade was Swamp Thing, so I agree, in the hands of a good writer, anyone can be compelling.

 

But the very nature of the character bores me.  And it was Superman Returns, from which I still suffer PTSD.