Buxton the last month (22 games)

[cmathewson]

Couldn't disagree more, and I usually agree with you. The team isn't hyping Buxton much at all. The hype he's getting is largely coming from the national media outlets, and mostly because Buxton appears to deserve the hype he's receiving. This has been an ongoing and well-documented story line about the kid's make-up and Georgia small school country-boy ways back from at least a year before the 2012 draft And I'm not just reading every positive thing about him, it's just that so much of what he's about is positive in nature. Certainly, he has weak spots in his game and maturity issues that he will have to overcome.

 

You are just wrong about elite athletes (in general). I have been around, played with and coached them my entire life. It is by nature very difficult to instill the need to work harder in someone for whom something already comes easy. The ones who overcome the natural urges to coast (and head to Delmon Young-type careers) are the ones who become truly great. There are so many, many great athletes you never hear of because they flame out, are afraid of success, or afraid or too lazy to make the commitment to becoming, or staying, successful. (I've documented previously about a guy I knew in college who ended up pitching for the Giants for a couple years, he simply screwed around on his college team and had a very mediocre college career. He always had the talent and athleticism to be a big league pitcher, but he never once put in the extra time to maximize his full potential- had he worked harder during his developing years he certainly might have pitched in the big leagues for a lot longer than just 2 seasons).

 

Certainly there are a lack of articles about Hicks, and we've never read that he isn't a hard worker. But, he was a 1st round draft pick, anointed early on and California-cool and laid back. He has demonstrably been slow to adjust to each successive level of play, and this season, simultaneously exposed for all to see his incredible God-given natural athleticism and the holes in his game that 5 years of hard work (or the lack thereof) in the minor leagues still need refinement and even more work to fix.

 

I still have high hopes that Hicks can stick permanently next time around and I'm most certainly not hating on him. If you are a fan of his, I understand where you're coming from, and I think we all want to see him succeed to the utmost level of his ceiling. I am hoping to read an article this winter on how hard Hicks is working and has learned a most valuable lesson on preparedness from his first go-round in the big time.

 

Buxton isn't Hicks because Buxton is the Adrian Peterson of prospects and Hicks is not. I still like Hicks, but having seen him for a half season, i can say he has a problem that neither work nor coaching can fix. He struggles to make solid contact. If anthing, he has maximized his ability given this usually tagic flaw for a baseball layer by being patient and hitting the ball hard when he does make contact. That takes effort. Hicks is very hard working. he just doesn't have the skills that Buxton has. Few players do.

[PseudoSABR]

And what's with the "dude" and "specious" attack characterizations? Clearly a personal attack in violation of the TD policies. Please take a chill pill.

I've clearly crossed the line!

 

Specious refers to your reasoning, not your character. Dude is not a pejorative.

[Celebrity Weddings!]

And my questioning and speculating is not personal. I don't even know tha man, how can it be personal?

 

The question you should be asking, since you don't know the man, is why you felt the need to comment on his character at all.

[drjim]

Keep digging jokin. It is so easy to praise Buxton without engaging in any of your wild speculation regarding Hicks.

[jokin]

Buxton isn't Hicks because Buxton is the Adrian Peterson of prospects and Hicks is not. I still like Hicks, but having seen him for a half season, i can say he has a problem that neither work nor coaching can fix. He struggles to make solid contact. If anthing, he has maximized his ability given this usually tagic flaw for a baseball layer by being patient and hitting the ball hard when he does make contact. That takes effort. Hicks is very hard working. he just doesn't have the skills that Buxton has. Few players do.

 

I agree that Hicks doesn't have Buxton's skills, which was why I stated in my OP that Buxton was 3X the talent as Hicks. But Hicks is still a First Round pick, a truly elite athlete. He has had a good enough eye at the plate to maintain a high OBP throughout his minor league career with a pretty reasonable K%. That should still project him as a major league leadoff hitter. Further, his exciting adventures and misadventures in CF and some of his substandard defensive metrics show he wasn't Major League Ready.

 

And that was the overall impression I got from Hicks' first year- that he physically was very, very impressive, but also, especially, that he looked, way, way, too RAW to be in his 6th year of professional ball- more like some 19 year old, utterly lost at times at the plate, and kind-of making it up as he went along in the field. Hard work involves better preparation and attention to detail- I would mark both of those down as Areas for Improvement on his year-end performance review.

[jokin]

The question you should be asking, since you don't know the man, is why you felt the need to comment on his character at all.

 

Haven't commented on his character specifically in any way, shape, manner or form. Only that Buxton is more prepared and focused on becoming a major leaguer at 19 than Hicks is at 24. This is pretty indisputable.

[Steve Lein]

I'm on board with letting the kid rest (along with Sano). The baseball season is long, and this is his first full season. I'm sure by the end of it he will be tired. Offseasons are huge IMO. That is where he can make gains in the weight room and heal nagging injuries, some of which might take months.

 

I'd almost say it's a "for-sure" situation that Buxton does NOT play in the AFL because it is his first full season. As for Sano, he'll be back in the Dominican Winter League. His team didn't pick him Round 1, Pick 1 last year so he wouldn't play for them. (also just an FYI since I've seen people wondering about him in the AFL: Sano can't play in the AFL unless his DWL team lets him go, which they absolutely will not, as he's such a big attraction for them).

 

I've said this elsewhere, but I think Buxton will join the "20/20/20/20 club" (look it up) eventually, which would put him him in extremely rare and elite company. And think he's more likely to do that consistently than end up a consistent 30/30 guy like many here envision.

[jokin]

Keep digging jokin. It is so easy to praise Buxton without engaging in any of your wild speculation regarding Hicks.

 

Except the speculation on my part isn't wild and it isn't a "smear" as you characterized it. Time to lighten up a bit, don't you think?

[jokin]

I'd almost say it's a "for-sure" situation that Buxton does NOT play in the AFL because it is his first full season. As for Sano, he'll be back in the Dominican Winter League. His team didn't pick him Round 1, Pick 1 last year so he wouldn't play for them. (also just an FYI since I've seen people wondering about him in the AFL: Sano can't play in the AFL unless his DWL team lets him go, which they absolutely will not, as he's such a big attraction for them).

 

I've said this elsewhere, but I think Buxton will join the "20/20/20/20 club" (look it up) eventually, which would put him him in extremely rare and elite company. And think he's more likely to do that consistently than end up a consistent 30/30 guy like many here envision.

 

I'd happily settle for either, and we may see a little of both as his career evolves.

[Thegrin]

Here are 2 facts:

1) Buxton's running game is advanced. Buxton had 32 SB with 11 CS in CR. He has 20 SB with 6 CS in FtM.

2) Hick's is not. Hicks had 9 SB and 3 CS in 281 AB. In 2012 Hicks had 32 SB with 11 CS.

 

With Hick's natural speed, should he be doing better than that?

[jokin]

I've clearly crossed the line!

 

Specious refers to your reasoning, not your character. Dude is not a pejorative.

 

Still qualifies as an attack and unnecessarily uncivil language in addressing someone- all merely because we disagree about baseball players who we both want to see reach their full potential. So yes, together with your opening bit of sarcasm this time around concerning "line-crossing", you've been unnecessarily disrespectful and crossed the line on what we all wish to be a friendly forum to exchange viewpoints, not score attack points.

[jokin]

Here are 2 facts:

1) Buxton's running game is advanced. Buxton had 32 SB with 11 CS in CR. He has 20 SB with 6 CS in FtM.

2) Hick's is not. Hicks had 9 SB and 3 CS in 281 AB. In 2012 Hicks had 32 SB with 11 CS.

 

With Hick's natural speed, should he be doing better than that?

 

Buck's numbers are advanced and his CS% is rapidly improving. Suggests he's worked hard to improve this perceived area of weakness that all the scouts had noted in his game.

[DaveW]

LOL, if that is what you consider a personal attack.I am glad an otherwise potentially solid thread just got hijacked again due to a person making an outrageous claim and then 30 other posts discussing it.

[cmb0252]

LOL, if that is what you consider a personal attack.I am glad an otherwise potentially solid thread just got hijacked again due to a person making an outrageous claim and then 30 other posts discussing it.

 

Seems to be the normal now of days. This post isn't about Hicks but how great Buxton is. The fact he most likely will start next year in AA is amazing. This is the most excited I have been about a Twins prospect since Mauer.

[iastfan112]

Aaron Hicks struggled there's no denying that but I tend to agree with statement that it seems the very opposite of "the Twins way" to have a guy like Hicks skip AAA if he wasn't a hard worker. It's not shocking that he struggled in his first taste of the majors either, that happens, it's the toughest jump and he skipped a step along the way. I remember Dozier looking very similar last season yet this year he's rebounded both offensively and defensively(excluding the circus that was last night). I still think Aaron Hicks will be a useful major league player and though admittedly more for his defense than his bat.

[Thrylos]

I'm not questioning it specifically- just drawing logical conclusions about a guy 6 years into his professional career- still with holes big enough in his game to drive a truck through. It's certainly not personal, just a pointed point on how rare a guy like Buxton is. Talented guys in general, generally don't see the need to work hard. By the same token, we've never read an article or quote from Hicks related to how hard he works and his internal motivations to succeed like we have about Buxton

 

As far as Hicks goes:

 

a. His coaches, managers, GM and minor league directors have done him a disservice by letting him switch hit. Period. His OPS+ as a RHB in the majors is 92, which is higher than Doumit, Plouffe etc.

b. He is 23. Span and Hunter were busts at 23 as well. Give him some time.

c. Hicks is one of the nicest and most humble ball players that you can ever meet. He works hard and he keeps his mouth shut. A lot like Buxton as a matter of fact. But he is a really quiet guy, so do not expect quotes from him. He is not Mike Cuddyer...

[Mr. Brooks]

I have no way of knowing one way or the other about Hicks' work ethic.

But, FWIW, I will say that after we drafted him I read many scouting reports raving about his "amazing" work ethic. I am positive that they used that word too, "amazing" work ethic. I know for sure I remember this , because that draft class was when I first started paying attention to prospects, and I looked up as much info as I could find on our first few picks.

That doesn't necessarily make it true, many of those "scouting reports" are amateurish at best, but I do recall reading that in more than one of them.

[jokin]

As far as Hicks goes:

 

a. His coaches, managers, GM and minor league directors have done him a disservice by letting him switch hit. Period. His OPS+ as a RHB in the majors is 92, which is higher than Doumit, Plouffe etc.

b. He is 23. Span and Hunter were busts at 23 as well. Give him some time.

c. Hicks is one of the nicest and most humble ball players that you can ever meet. He works hard and he keeps his mouth shut. A lot like Buxton as a matter of fact. But he is a really quiet guy, so do not expect quotes from him. He is not Mike Cuddyer...

 

The switch hit thing was one of the alarming things we all first noticed in April. Hence, one of the reasons that led in part to my surprise at how RAW he looks as a major leaguer. Hicks turns 24 in about 5 weeks. I have high hopes that he will be much better next year. He clearly has all the tools to eclipse the career of Span, and maybe even Hunter. His debut season has certainly raised questions about his major league readninexx that hopefully can and will be addressed in the offsesason.

 

He does seem like a nice guy and will be easy to rally around with some sustained success. Buxton hasn't talked about himself publicly, either, maybe there's a good chance that their personalities will really click playing alongside each other next summer and they could push each other by doing the same workout routines together. Until then, I'd love and welcome for Aaron to publicly call himself out and challenge himself to making the improvements in his game requisite to becoming the leader that he is capable of becoming in turning this franchise around in the right direction.

 

And you're right on the Twins management and coaching staff and their role in this. Has he spent 5 years focusing a good chunk of his time and energy feebly trying to bat left-handed with this result? More help and hard work focusing and polishing up the elements of his game and letting Hicks do what Hicks does best would be time well spent.

[Monkeypaws]

And what's with the "dude" and "specious" attack characterizations? Clearly a personal attack in violation of the TD policies. Please take a chill pill.

 

You're being very un-Dude here....

[Kwak]

Yes. That is quite the smear if there is nothing to back it up.

 

The only "evidence" presented was his struggle. Hicks was never "disciplined" as a "distraction" which indicates that his character was strong enough to withstand failure, I find it "this evidence of entitlement" to be completely without merit. Maybe Hicks just isn't skilled enough for the majors instead of "having a poor work ethic".

 

Buxton's image doesn't need the smear of Hicks--his image stands on its own.

 

"...[the Twins don't tout] Buxton's abilities enough"? !! What?! Just because they haven't placed 50 life-size statutes of him around the Twin Cities doesn't mean Buxton wasn't hyped. Buxton's "hype" is included in the "we have the best minor league system" tome because the Twins are trying to reassure their fanbase that the FO is doing a good job and better things are just around the corner.

[Guest USAFChief]

As I recall, Hicks was a very promising prep golfer, good enough to have major college interest. IMO a kid doesn't have that advanced of a golf game without a solid work ethic. Golf isn't a game that can be faked through natural talent alone.

 

i think it's safe to say the Dude abides.

[Beezer07]

Soooooo excited for Buxton to get to the majors and succeed. Just can't wait for someone so highly touted to actually play for my favorite team, for once!

 

And I hope Hicks turns it around. Talk about an amazing defensive outfield.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

Doogie says - through a team source - that there is a "good shot" Buxton plays in the AFL.

[IdahoPilgrim]

As I recall, Hicks was a very promising prep golfer, good enough to have major college interest. IMO a kid doesn't have that advanced of a golf game without a solid work ethic. Golf isn't a game that can be faked through natural talent alone.

 

I agree. I play golf myself, and to excel requires work. The only way to fake golf is to wait until nobody else is looking.

[70charger]

I agree. I play golf myself, and to excel requires work. The only way to fake golf is to wait until nobody else is looking.

 

Why don't you improve your lie a little, Judge Smails?

[launchingthrees]

As far as Hicks goes:

 

b. He is 23. Span and Hunter were busts at 23 as well. Give him some time.

 

That dog don't hunt. These players weren't nearly as bad as Hicks at 23.

[Monkeypaws]

That dog don't hunt. These players weren't nearly as bad as Hicks at 23.

 

Hard to compare, when Span didn't even make it to the bigs until he was 24.

 

Hicks arguably had the best season as a 22 year old of the three of them. He showed flashes of being a solid center fielder and hitter this season. In retrospect, some time at AAA at the start of the season would have probably done him good.

[cmb0252]

People do realize this is a thread about Buxton and not Hicks right?

[launchingthrees]

Hard to compare, when Span didn't even make it to the bigs until he was 24.

 

Hicks arguably had the best season as a 22 year old of the three of them. He showed flashes of being a solid center fielder and hitter this season. In retrospect, some time at AAA at the start of the season would have probably done him good.

 

He was one of the worst players in baseball this year. His fielding was bad, and his hitting was historically bad. Players who have a season like he had don't go on to do well.

[iastfan112]

He was one of the worst players in baseball this year. His fielding was bad, and his hitting was historically bad. Players who have a season like he had don't go on to do well.

 

He had a .600 OPS, that's not historically bad, certainly not good but a number of Minnesota Twins players do that each year. Writing a player off because of half a season of poor production in his first taste of major league action. Its been Hick's general modus operandi to struggle a bit in his first year of a league and then adjust and improvement with time. As I mentioned before, Dozier had similar struggles last year. Another example of a guy who struggled significantly in his early career as well and has put together a very fine last couple is Chris Davis, he had negative WAR's(both f and 3/4 of his seasons in the majors. Raw guys with tools sometimes take awhile to put everything together, giving up on them, especially when your team is already bad is extremely foolish.