Vikings v. Packers

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, gunnarthor said:

I guess this is an eye of the beholder thing but McCarthy looked a lot better. I get that the haters want to say he played bad defenses so the results don't matter but he absolutely played a lot better. His QB rating over those games was over 95. 

Fair. When he was healthy. But if you aren't on the field? Also, that's two players, neither even a rookie. 

[Aggies7]

3 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I guess this is an eye of the beholder thing but McCarthy looked a lot better. I get that the haters want to say he played bad defenses so the results don't matter but he absolutely played a lot better. His QB rating over those games was over 95. 

He did show things he wasn’t showing in his first 5 or 6 games. Unfortunately probably not enough to go all in on the guy but maybe they don’t wildly overspend for a FA QB now?

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

He did show things he wasn’t showing in his first 5 or 6 games. Unfortunately probably not enough to go all in on the guy but maybe they don’t overspend for a FA QB now?

They still have to IMO. He’s the Byron Buxton of QBs right now health wise. so a legitimate insurance option is needed 

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

They still have to IMO. He’s the Byron Buxton of QBs right now health wise. so a legitimate insurance option is needed 

But if that guy is Joe burrow, he ain’t exactly the picture of health either tho 

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

But if that guy is Joe burrow, he ain’t exactly the picture of health either tho 

He’s iron man compared to McCarthy right now. 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Fair. When he was healthy. But if you aren't on the field? Also, that's two players, neither even a rookie. 

Well, the first round rookie played 14 games, was called for three penalties all year, and was top 7 in run blocking, per ESPN. He seemed ok. Dawkins played about 30% of defensive snaps, not bad for a 5th round rookie (he was hurt for a game, IIRC). But, realistically, this isn't a team that was far away. They needed a good QB. If they had that, they were probably the #1 or #2 seed. And, while it'll be discussed a lot more, I'm sure, next years' team is going to look a lot like this years' team.

[Mike Sixel]

11 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Well, the first round rookie played 14 games, was called for three penalties all year, and was top 7 in run blocking, per ESPN. He seemed ok. Dawkins played about 30% of defensive snaps, not bad for a 5th round rookie (he was hurt for a game, IIRC). But, realistically, this isn't a team that was far away. They needed a good QB. If they had that, they were probably the #1 or #2 seed. And, while it'll be discussed a lot more, I'm sure, next years' team is going to look a lot like this years' team.

That depends on Flores coming back. But yes, other than Smith and the center and a DT or two and interior LB, it's likely the same team. And likely TE.

Jackson played well, but I'm not sure he got better as the year went on? He was pretty much a decent to good player day one and stayed that. 

I agree, they are in the playoffs if McCarthy isn't historically bad to start the year. 

[Danchat]

4 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

My guess was that McCardell wanted him to replace Nailor next year. With good qb play, he probably would have gotten more playing time. 

Huh? With better QB play, Thielen would have stayed on the roster and Felton wouldn't see the field. Once they cut AT, they've played Felton an average of 5 snaps per game. Better QB play has nothing to do with Felton getting on the field more, he was stuck with the 3rd team in training camp because he struggles to run routes and had a hard time catching the ball.

He was at best a 5th round caliber prospect that they reached on because they wanted a guy who could return kicks and be a good gunner, which is a waste of a 3rd round pick when there were plenty of quality options that went after that pick. Heck, the Titans found two starting WRs in Round 4. Instead we took a project who was raw enough they felt they had to trade picks for Thielen, and barring a massive step up is not going to replace Nailor in 2026.

[Danchat]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Somehow I cashed that Vikings over bet from the beginning of the year.

I've never felt worse about winning money.

Same here, I can't believe they went over 8.5 wins after falling to 4-8. What a strange season.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Danchat said:

Huh? With better QB play, Thielen would have stayed on the roster and Felton wouldn't see the field. Once they cut AT, they've played Felton an average of 5 snaps per game. Better QB play has nothing to do with Felton getting on the field more, he was stuck with the 3rd team in training camp because he struggles to run routes and had a hard time catching the ball.

He was at best a 5th round caliber prospect that they reached on because they wanted a guy who could return kicks and be a good gunner, which is a waste of a 3rd round pick when there were plenty of quality options that went after that pick. Heck, the Titans found two starting WRs in Round 4. Instead we took a project who was raw enough they felt they had to trade picks for Thielen, and barring a massive step up is not going to replace Nailor in 2026.

For a team with few picks, trying to win now, it was a terrible pick. 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, Danchat said:

Huh? With better QB play, Thielen would have stayed on the roster and Felton wouldn't see the field. Once they cut AT, they've played Felton an average of 5 snaps per game. Better QB play has nothing to do with Felton getting on the field more, he was stuck with the 3rd team in training camp because he struggles to run routes and had a hard time catching the ball.

He was at best a 5th round caliber prospect that they reached on because they wanted a guy who could return kicks and be a good gunner, which is a waste of a 3rd round pick when there were plenty of quality options that went after that pick. Heck, the Titans found two starting WRs in Round 4. Instead we took a project who was raw enough they felt they had to trade picks for Thielen, and barring a massive step up is not going to replace Nailor in 2026.

Regardless of where he was projected (here he's #98 on a big board, here he's # 154) my thought process was that with good QB play, we'd have more games like the Cincy and Washington blowouts where he'd get garbage time playing time to get reps. I don't think they'd have kept Theilen in those types of games. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

For a team with few picks, trying to win now, it was a terrible pick. 

If he's not on the field for half the plays next year, yikes. 

[Danchat]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which young guy even played and showed improvement other than Turner? Not one. 

Yeah, it's a stretch to come up with any other names... Jay Ward got more playing time and looked decent. Not sure if he'll be trusted to start next year, but they really need 2 starting safeties (one to push Metellus back to his unique role as he isn't close to as good as a traditional safety). 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

For a team with few picks, trying to win now, it was a terrible pick. 

The Lions did the same thing - they nabbed Tesla in the 3rd round despite being a developmental pick. Pride of Detroit's forums were not happy with that after the Vikings loss. Saying the same thing you are - win-now teams can't draft like that. 

All teams do. 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

The Chiefs are actively finding a way to do it right now.

They locked up the #9 pick, good on them to lose all their games after the Mahomes ACL tear.

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

O'Neill played today didn't he? 

Correct, he only missed 1 game in the past month.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, gunnarthor said:

The Lions did the same thing - they nabbed Tesla in the 3rd round despite being a developmental pick. Pride of Detroit's forums were not happy with that after the Vikings loss. Saying the same thing you are - win-now teams can't draft like that. 

All teams do. 

They had picks in every round, and we're a very good team. Maybe they make playoffs if they get a good player there? 

Once the season was over, he still didn't play. That's a mistake. 

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Danchat said:

They locked up the #9 pick, good on them to lose all their games after the Mahomes ACL tear.

Correct, he only missed 1 game in the past month.

I was thinking of Kelly not Oneill 

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

The Lions did the same thing - they nabbed Tesla in the 3rd round despite being a developmental pick. Pride of Detroit's forums were not happy with that after the Vikings loss. Saying the same thing you are - win-now teams can't draft like that. 

All teams do. 

?? Tesla had 6 TD receptions this year 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

?? Tesla had 6 TD receptions this year 

Facts. 

[gunnarthor]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

?? Tesla had 6 TD receptions this year 

On 15 catches. 

I'm not saying he was a bad pick. I'm just saying the same argument - he's a bad pick for a win-now team - is being made by the Detroit fanbase. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, gunnarthor said:

On 15 catches. 

I'm not saying he was a bad pick. I'm just saying the same argument - he's a bad pick for a win-now team - is being made by the Detroit fanbase. 

So they played him, and he produced. Seems like no comparison. 

[Danchat]

6 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

The Lions did the same thing - they nabbed Tesla in the 3rd round despite being a developmental pick. Pride of Detroit's forums were not happy with that after the Vikings loss. Saying the same thing you are - win-now teams can't draft like that. 

All teams do. 

Fair, I didn't like that pick either but part of the complaint was they moved 3 third round picks to move up to take him, and at least he has looked really good when on the field. And he actually forces them to put him on the field, especially in the redzone. 

10 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Regardless of where he was projected (here he's #98 on a big board, here he's # 154) my thought process was that with good QB play, we'd have more games like the Cincy and Washington blowouts where he'd get garbage time playing time to get reps.

#154 is around where I had him... but getting reps in blowouts isn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more like "Felton is playing so well in practice that he forces KOC to come up with some 4WR packages to put him on the field". He got on the field against the Packers today and drew a DPI, but also dropped an easy pass that was negated due to penalty. He looks more like a late Day 3 guy rather than a budding playmaker who is close to breaking out like TeSlaa.

[gunnarthor]

35 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

They still have to IMO. He’s the Byron Buxton of QBs right now health wise. so a legitimate insurance option is needed 

Well they certainly won't go with Brosmer but Wentz or Cousins (after he's released) might be the back up. I don't think they'll go after Willis or trade for Burrow. 

[Mike Sixel]

Over on footballs future, many are predicting Kirk comes back. How would that work? Because JJ is benched fast if he struggles and Kirk is in Minnesota. 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Over on footballs future, many are predicting Kirk comes back. How would that work? Because JJ is benched fast if he struggles and Kirk is in Minnesota. 

If he can't be better than Cousins, bench him. But I'm pretty strongly pro-McCarthy. I think he's going to be a good QB. But he has to stay healthy. That's what I worry about.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, gunnarthor said:

If he can't be better than Cousins, bench him. But I'm pretty strongly pro-McCarthy. I think he's going to be a good QB. But he has to stay healthy. That's what I worry about.

I think he might be, but I remain skeptical. Hell, that penalty today shows how immature he is. Yup, he's young. But next year is year three, so he's not going in NFL years study point. 

[gunnarthor]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

I think he might be, but I remain skeptical. Hell, that penalty today shows how immature he is. Yup, he's young. But next year is year three, so he's not going in NFL years study point. 

Yeah, that penalty - and the whole "nine" thing - was just stupid. He has some growing up to do but hopefully he gets that. Or the coaches pound that into him. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, gunnarthor said:

Yeah, that penalty - and the whole "nine" thing - was just stupid. He has some growing up to do but hopefully he gets that. Or the coaches pound that into him. 

I coach HS kids. Reminds me of some of them. Then again, he's barely older. But he had real responsibility now....

[gunnarthor]

Here's the link to KOC's locker room speech after the win today. Jump to 2 minutes to see the Ham and Smith send off.

 

[Vanimal46]

27 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

On 15 catches. 

I'm not saying he was a bad pick. I'm just saying the same argument - he's a bad pick for a win-now team - is being made by the Detroit fanbase. 

If he was a Viking you’d be saying that was a hit draft pick for Kwesi…