Vikes @ Curly Lambeau Field 11/23

[Vanimal46]

11 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Credit to the cowboys for batting back 

CeeDee Lamb with cast iron skillets as hands when it matters most.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

CeeDee Lamb with cast iron skillets as hands when it matters most.

Did he drop a TD? Sigh. Gotta suspect that got of gambling at some point this year....?

[Vanimal46]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

That’s what I mean when I say people will lose their jobs. If there were anything positive to look at, you would be willing to cut some slack. But there’s nothing. And you let a 14 game winner walk for him. Who was evaluating his talent that thought he would work. Was it arrogance?

Lots of ego went behind that decision. IMO Kwesi pushed the idea of moving forward with the rookie contract QB roster build. I think KOC was skeptical given their flirtations with Darnold, Danny Dimes, and Rodgers last offseason. He can't be that blind to see how McCarthy looked in OTAs/private workouts and think yep, he needs to start immediately.

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Lots of ego went behind that decision. IMO Kwesi pushed the idea of moving forward with the rookie contract QB roster build. I think KOC was skeptical given their flirtations with Darnold, Danny Dimes, and Rodgers last offseason. He can't be that blind to see how McCarthy looked in OTAs/private workouts and think yep, he needs to start immediately.

Nobody wants young QBs to sit the bench anymore and I’ve always thought that was silly. Maybe they couldn’t make it work money wise with Darnold but would two more years of JJM sitting the bench been the end of the world? Or did SD want more years? Maybe it just wouldn’t have worked anyway, but they sure went all in on JJM and that seems to be ill conceived at this moment

[Vanimal46]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

Nobody wants young QBs to sit the bench anymore and I’ve always thought that was silly. Maybe they couldn’t make it work money wise with Darnold but would two more years of JJM sitting the bench been the end of the world?

My preference was keeping Darnold at the franchise tag at the very least, if not a similar contract he signed in Seattle. Then after he was out of the picture, I wanted Rodgers, who also wanted to play here for cheap. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Nobody wants young QBs to sit the bench anymore and I’ve always thought that was silly. Maybe they couldn’t make it work money wise with Darnold but would two more years of JJM sitting the bench been the end of the world?

You either need a veteran, and lots of young cheap players, or a rookie and then you can have lots of expensive players. You can't sit a first round QB for three years anymore in the NFL. Not one you took early in the draft to be a starter. That's not how the system is set up. 

[Aggies7]

All this being said, I cannot wait to see what Darnold does in the playoffs. Will it be a disaster again or will he somehow be competent 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

My preference was keeping Darnold at the franchise tag at the very least, if not a similar contract he signed in Seattle. Then after he was out of the picture, I wanted Rodgers, who also wanted to play here for cheap. 

Thankful they didn't sign Rodgers. Very thankful. I would have burned my jersey. 

[Aggies7]

Heart breaking loss for Philly. Too bad.

[Mike Sixel]

It seemed a lock Jefferson would break a Moss record. Now? Maybe not. 

[Aggies7]

 

[gunnarthor]

This article is basically right - https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/onsi/news/another-christian-ponder-its-already-getting-bleak-for-jj-mccarthy

It points out that McCarthy looked better in his first three starts than his last three, which isn't great when you want to see improvement.

[Aggies7]

That second half reminded of one of the Jim Mora rants. “We couldn’t make a first down. We couldn’t run the ball. We didn’t try to run the ball. We couldn’t complete a pass. We sucked in that second half.”

[Vanimal46]

I guess we should be used to it as MN sports fans, but there are few things worse for football fans than meaningless games in December. We will see just how strong the internal culture is now... Team success is out the window, and players will be looking to pad their own stats for the next 6 games. 

I have to assume there's a growing divide in the locker room... The defense has to be pissed that the offense can't sustain any drives, leaving them on the field for way too long. The WRs have to be pissed that McCarthy can't get the ball to them on time or accurately.

[Aggies7]

According to the Skor North guys, yesterday’s JJ performance was the worst QBR for a Viking QB since SPERGON WYNN against the packers in 2001 (11 of 30 and 3 picks)

This is not good company 

[nicksaviking]

18 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

 Everyone is trying to do that. You’ve got to get someone who gives you a chance. Fans can wait, coaches, FO’s and players can’t. You think KOC and your star WR want another year of this???

I don't want the extremely slim chance of getting a game manager to win a Super Bowl, particularly when that comes with also needing an all time great defense. The better chance is to keep grinding until you find an elite QB.

And If they start making decisions where the primary emphasis is to save their jobs instead of winning a championship, it's time for new leadership.

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

All this being said, I cannot wait to see what Darnold does in the playoffs. Will it be a disaster again or will he somehow be competent 

Probably depends on if he plays the Rams again. Or the Lions. He also didn't play well against the 49ers. I don't like his chances against the Eagles either.

So maybe if he plays the NFC South winner. Or the Bears, their defense stinks. Unless you ask JJ McCarthy.

[Vanimal46]

10 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

According to the Skor North guys, yesterday’s JJ performance was the worst QBR for a Viking QB since SPERGON WYNN against the packers in 2001 (11 of 30 and 3 picks)

This is not good company 

Normally I would say 6 games isn’t a big enough sample size. But when your performances puts you in the same tier as the worst QBs in team history and one of the biggest draft busts of all time JaMarcus Russell… 6 games might be enough to know this isn’t going to work. 

[nicksaviking]

2 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Normally I would say 6 games isn’t a big enough sample size. But when your performances puts you in the same tier as the worst QBs in team history and one of the biggest draft busts of all time JaMarcus Russell… 6 games might be enough to know this isn’t going to work. 

JJ might end up being OK. But it should be clear by now that it will only happen with the Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Geno Smith method, which means it won't be on this team. This all is too much for him as a 22-year-old kid.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

18 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I mean, he has one really good pick in 4 years (two if you count a kicker).  That's not going to cut it. They dealt for Hockenson, and got 2 years out of him (he's bad this year). I don't see how anyone thinks he's doing a good job at this point.....last year's record built on guys either he didn't draft, or who he let leave this year.

That’s fine, it’s just interesting to see a few people holding Kwesi to this standard but never held Falvey to this standard 🙂

[gunnarthor]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Unreal 

 

 

I know this isn't really the point but using stats in this context always bothered me. It's not helpful. It's not an apple to apple comparison. It's comparing 6 games of JJ to everyone else's career. I'd love to see what all 852 QB's EPA was after six games, I'd bet JJ wasn't 851 on that list. 

We did something similar with Berrios after his rough rookie starts, showing he was the worst pitcher ever after his first 10 starts or whatever. 

[gunnarthor]

7 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

That’s fine, it’s just interesting to see a few people holding Kwesi to this standard but never held Falvey to this standard 🙂

The old GM blew three first round picks on QBs. But KAM is held to a higher standard for some reason.

[nicksaviking]

13 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

That’s fine, it’s just interesting to see a few people holding Kwesi to this standard but never held Falvey to this standard 🙂

Are we reading the same message boards?!? Derek Falvey might be as reviled as the Pohlads based on the posts that I've been reading.

[Aggies7]

14 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

The old GM blew three first round picks on QBs. But KAM is held to a higher standard for some reason.

Now? Because he let a 14 game winner walk for McCarthy. It’s the NFL and the QB position makes or breaks teams. I can’t think of a baseball comparison where one guy would have a comparable impact to a quarterback. It’s pretty much that simple.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

11 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

That second half reminded of one of the Jim Mora rants. “We couldn’t make a first down. We couldn’t run the ball. We didn’t try to run the ball. We couldn’t complete a pass. We sucked in that second half.”

THE BEST Mora rant - better than the ‘playoffs’ one IMO

[Vanimal46]

15 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

The old GM blew three first round picks on QBs. But KAM is held to a higher standard for some reason.

It’s not a higher standard. We expect to have a good draft class every now and again. Kwesi’s drafts have been awful from day 1. 

[nicksaviking]

18 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

The old GM blew three first round picks on QBs. But KAM is held to a higher standard for some reason.

Ponder, Bridgewater and who? People were ready to run Spielman out the door years before he finally was. And that's despite him drafting Pro Bowl if not HOF players just about every year. And somehow, four years later, this team still has more starters from Spielman's drafts than from KAMs drafts. 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, nicksaviking said:

Ponder, Bridgewater and who? People were ready to run Spielman out the door years before he finally was. And that's despite him drafting Pro Bowl if not HOF players just about every year. And somehow, four years later, this team still has more starters from Spielman's drafts than from KAMs drafts. 

Sam Bradford. I understand why you forgot him.

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Ponder, Bridgewater and who? People were ready to run Speilman out the door years before he finally was. And that's despite him drafting Pro Bowl if not HOF players just about every year. And somehow, four years later, this team still has more starters from his drafts than from KAMs drafts. 

Heck, Teddy was still throwing passes yesterday. Who knows what would’ve happened if he didn’t destroy his knee..

[nicksaviking]

3 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Heck, Teddy was still throwing passes yesterday. Who knows what would’ve happened if he didn’t destroy his knee..

To be fair to the Spielman/KAM comp, I'd seen enough of Bridgewater to know that his ceiling was that of a game manger QB, which I didn't want. Far and away the best QB of those we're talking about though.