Bengals @ Vikings 9/21/25

[nicksaviking]

Looks like we've got a big week of talking points, might as well start this one early.

[gunnarthor]

It must absolutely suck to be a Bengals fan. Burrow out for 3 months. Geez. 

[nicksaviking]

Jake Browning vs Carson Wentz. Too bad for the networks it's too early in the year to start flexing games.

[Parfigliano]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

Jake Browning vs Carson Wentz. Too bad for the networks it's too early in the year to start flexing games.

I've been driving all day.  Why no JJMc

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Jake Browning vs Carson Wentz. Too bad for the networks it's too early in the year to start flexing games.

Sadly....our offense might get a boost from that.

[nicksaviking]

Vikings sign Desmond Ridder as the 3rd QB. Not coincidentally, he was in training camp with Cincinnati. 

Truly coincidentally, Brett Rypien is the Bengals back up QB, the Bengals signed him to their practice squad back in August.

[Mike Sixel]

Cam Akers back? Really? 

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Cam Akers back? Really? 

Bad habit they just can't/won't quit.

[Mike Sixel]

20 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Bad habit they just can't/won't quit.

Apparently Jones is on IR (IL?) whatever it is called.....so I get it. He knows the O

[nicksaviking]

Tai Felton in the 3rd is already looking like a regretful pick. No Addison, Thielen is still only running 65% of the snaps as he's old and likely not yet back up to speed, yet Felton has only played special teams.

In the 4th round alone there were three or four RBs that would have been helpful right about now. In the secondary, drafting Billy Bowman instead of Atlanta getting him might have won last week's game and Craig Woodson looks like a steal in NE; both went in the 4th. Several LBs from that round are already contributing and making their mark too and the Vikings need those. And it's not like there weren't better receivers available if that's the position they REALLY wanted.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Tai Felton in the 3rd is already looking like a regretful pick. No Addison, Thielen is still only running 65% of the snaps as he's old and likely not yet back up to speed, yet Felton has only played special teams.

In the 4th round alone there were three or four RBs would have been helpful right about now. In the secondary, drafting Billy Bowman instead of Atlanta getting him might have won last week's game and Craig Woodson looks like a steal in NE; both went in the 4th. Several LBs from that round are already contributing and making their mark too and the Vikings need those. And it's not like there weren't better receivers available if that's the position they REALLY wanted.

Ya, the drafts continue to be questionable, at best. 

[Aggies7]

Thoughts on McCarthy…

He was set up to fail this season. I don’t fault the Vikings for drafting him. But the minute he was injured last season, he was going to start 2025 in the same spot as he left 2024. Standing around in street clothes with an ear piece in listening to the playcalling chatter will never be a substitute for live game action. Had he been able to suit up in games and practices last season, I think maybe he’s in a much better spot than he is right now.

This was never going to go any other way than it has to this point. Ideally, if healthy, he could have had some garbage time mop up duty in the few blowouts we had last year. Just to get his feet wet. I’m a big believer in easing QBs into action. Remember, even mahomes sat the bench his first year in KC. Only 35 pass attempts in one game. But the injury kept JJ in arrested development.

You also wonder what the team could have done had Darnold not completely turned into a pumpkin in those final two games. The Vikings almost had to move on, he was that shockingly bad. Or could they have brought him back on a one year deal and kept JJ as the backup, with a similar approach to what would have happened last season? I’m not as versed in the salary aspect as some here are, but it’s a shame Darnold played so poorly in those two big games. It would have been much more ideal to ease McCarthy in instead of what they chose to do, two primetime national TV games to start your career. Results have been not unexpected. Tall ask for anyone, especially a rookie with questionable talent.

The injury is a blessing in poor disguise for the Vikings. This season, realistically, is a loss anyway. The Vikings are the third best team in the division, and that’s probably without all the injuries. Whatever wentz does is whatever. He’s probably not even been here long enough to know the playbook. At least he probably won’t be a deer in the headlights like McCarthy has been. The schedule, especially after the bye, is brutal. Not pulling the plug on McCarthy, but the 4 weeks off is probably for his own benefit. Doubt he’s on IR if he came in and played well

Nick Mullens is backing up in Jacksonville, should have kept him! 😉😂

[The Great Hambino]

I usually try not to get too tinfoil-hatty, but I firmly believe that this is a benching disguised as an injury.  

Plays the whole game Sunday night clearly in over his head without any obvious injury occurrence.   No noticeable limp that I can recall seeing at any point.  Then it's announced fairly early Monday morning that he's already being ruled out for 2-4 weeks?  No MRI, no seeing how he responds to treatment, just straight to Wentz?  I don't buy it.  

That timeline just happens to align with returning after the bye and, hopefully, with Darrisaw returning to the lineup.  It also bypasses the games in Europe.

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, The Great Hambino said:

I usually try not to get too tinfoil-hatty, but I firmly believe that this is a benching disguised as an injury.  

Plays the whole game Sunday night clearly in over his head without any obvious injury occurrence.   No noticeable limp that I can recall seeing at any point.  Then it's announced fairly early Monday morning that he's already being ruled out for 2-4 weeks?  No MRI, no seeing how he responds to treatment, just straight to Wentz?  I don't buy it.  

That timeline just happens to align with returning after the bye and, hopefully, with Darrisaw returning to the lineup.  It also bypasses the games in Europe.

They did show him getting taped up during the game. Also I noticed wentz was stretching on the sideline in a way that indicated he could be coming into the game. I buy that he dinged up his ankle, not knowing the severity of it, I bet if he had been playing well, he probably doesn’t go on IR. 

[gunnarthor]

I mean, yes, the Vikings season could be over. They could finish 4-13 or whatever. But Viking fans do seem have a doom mentality. Nick has posted that the Twins Cities are cursed. Aggie calls for QBs to be benched during nearly every game thread for years now. Yet the Vikings and O'Connell have generally showed pretty good resilience.  Maybe it's better to calm down and relax. The Vikings biggest problem - the o-line - is fixable, esp when Darrisaw is back and the unit has more reps together. I will remain a strong advocate for McCarthy. While his numbers looked bad, I thought he looked ok. No happy feet, no bailing out of the pocket early. He just needs playing time. The defense, even with injuries, has been strong and kept us in both games while the offense was trying to figure things out. 

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I mean, yes, the Vikings season could be over. They could finish 4-13 or whatever. But Viking fans do seem have a doom mentality. Nick has posted that the Twins Cities are cursed. Aggie calls for QBs to be benched during nearly every game thread for years now. Yet the Vikings and O'Connell have generally showed pretty good resilience.  Maybe it's better to calm down and relax. The Vikings biggest problem - the o-line - is fixable, esp when Darrisaw is back and the unit has more reps together. I will remain a strong advocate for McCarthy. While his numbers looked bad, I thought he looked ok. No happy feet, no bailing out of the pocket early. He just needs playing time. The defense, even with injuries, has been strong and kept us in both games while the offense was trying to figure things out. 

I don’t know why you keep saying that I’ve wanted everyone benched. I liked Kirk much better than most of the people here. I’m sure of that. And Darnold only had a bad game or two before the last two of the season. So I’m not really sure who I called to be benched? Dobbs? Jaren hall? Cripes I even liked Mullens more than anyone else here lol Darnold could have probably been benched in either of those last two games, he was that bad and we were desperate 

[gunnarthor]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

I don’t know why you keep saying that I’ve wanted everyone benched. I liked Kirk much better than most of the people here. I’m sure of that. And Darnold only had a bad game or two before the last two of the season. So I’m not really sure who I called to be benched? Dobbs? Jaren hall? Cripes I even liked Mullens more than anyone here lol 

Dude, you called for Darnold to be benched in nearly every game thread last year. 

[Aggies7]

4 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

Dude, you called for Darnold to be benched in nearly every game thread last year. 

If you say so. I was definitely a non believer coming in, but I was for resigning him before the meltdown games.

[nicksaviking]

After the melt down games, the Vikings couldn't re-sign Darnold because right or wrong, it would have signaled that they weren't planning on being a true contender.

I'm also nowhere near giving up on McCarthy, he's clearly talented, but the game is also clearly too fast for him right now. What I am encouraged about is that he does not appear gun-shy and indecisive. We've seen that with Christian Ponder and Teddy Bridgewater, the Bears have seen it with Justin Fields and now Caleb Williams. You'll never be a winning QB if you're tentative and fearful of mistakes. If anything, McCarthy has been too reckless, I think you can work with that.

But two years of injury are tough. This team REALLY needed to have their answer on him come the end of this season so they know if they should move on; it's looking less likely that they will know enough.

I also don't buy the injury conspiracy; that strip sack looked nasty, I thought he was going to end up getting carted off the field.

[Aggies7]

4 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

After the melt down games, the Vikings couldn't re-sign Darnold because right or wrong, it would have signaled that they weren't planning on being a true contender.

I'm also nowhere near giving up on McCarthy, he's clearly talented, but the game is also clearly too fast for him right now. What I am encouraged about is that he does not appear gun-shy and indecisive. We've seen that with Christian Ponder and Teddy Bridgewater, the Bears have seen it with Justin Fields and now Caleb Williams. You'll never be a winning QB if you're tentative and fearful of mistakes. If anything, McCarthy has been too reckless, I think you can work with that.

But two years of injury are tough. This team REALLY needed to have their answer on him come the end of this season so they know if they should move on; it's looking less likely that they will know enough.

I also don't buy the injury conspiracy; that strip sack looked nasty, I thought he was going to end up getting carted off the field.

I agree but not so much with that first paragraph. They did win 14 games last year so I don’t think it would have been a hard sell that they were expecting to contend. If anything, I think they would have opened themselves up to questions about mccarthy’s readiness had they resigned Darnold. Which, IMO, they would have totally been justified in doing since the guy missed the entire season. “Our plan was to have JJ start in 2025 but the injury changed things” I don’t think would have been a hard sell to the fans. Just my opinion. It would have helped if Darnold was merely average in those final two games instead of looking like the moment was way too big for him.

[gunnarthor]

The one thing I'm really surprised about is how bad this line has looked, as a whole. Jackson looked pretty good week one but not so good week two. Skule has been far worse than even what a Packers fan would have hoped for. I think Kelly and Fries are good, neither has been dominant and the entire line looks like five guys trying to fight the opposing team single-handily. On a lot of running plays, they haven't moved the defense much (but there have been a few runs where it's clear they can) and the pass protection seems like they've never heard of a stunt or how to deal with blitz pick ups. I have no idea how you fix that but it does seem fixable. 

[The Great Hambino]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

I agree but not so much with that first paragraph. They did win 14 games last year so I don’t think it would have been a hard sell that they were expecting to contend. If anything, I think they would have opened themselves up to questions about mccarthy’s readiness had they resigned Darnold. Which, IMO, they would have totally been justified in doing since the guy missed the entire season. “Our plan was to have JJ start in 2025 but the injury changed things” I don’t think would have been a hard sell to the fans. Just my opinion.

The problem is a one-year deal for Darnold wasn't an option unless they put the franchise tag on him, which would've severely handicapped the rest of their free agency plans.  He got a three year deal for $105MM ($55MM guaranteed) from the Seahawks. No one year deal could match that, especially not without foregoing improvements elsewhere

If they wanted to have JJ backstopped by a vet on a one-year deal, Daniel Jones was the play.  In hindsight it sure looks like that would've been a fine move (so far anyway), but I don't think it looked that way back in March

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

The problem is a one-year deal for Darnold wasn't an option unless they put the franchise tag on him, which would've severely handicapped the rest of their free agency plans.  He got a three year deal for $105MM ($55MM guaranteed) from the Seahawks. No one year deal could match that, especially not without foregoing improvements elsewhere

If they wanted to have JJ backstopped by a vet on a one-year deal, Daniel Jones was the play.  In hindsight it sure looks like that would've been a fine move (so far anyway), but I don't think it looked that way back in March

Makes a lot of sense, though I’m not buying  Daniel Jones yet

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

As far as Darnold, even KOC was saying things like “he will always have a place in our hearts” lol immediately when last season ended. Darnold was never coming back after those last two games.

[nicksaviking]

15 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

I agree but not so much with that first paragraph. They did win 14 games last year so I don’t think it would have been a hard sell that they were expecting to contend. If anything, I think they would have opened themselves up to questions about mccarthy’s readiness had they resigned Darnold. Which, IMO, they would have totally been justified in doing since the guy missed the entire season. “Our plan was to have JJ start in 2025 but the injury changed things” I don’t think would have been a hard sell to the fans. Just my opinion. It would have helped if Darnold was merely average in those final two games instead of looking like the moment was way too big for him.

Right, that's what I meant. Re-signing him and telling the world you were planning on competing was reasonable through most of the year. After those last two games the national narrative was that Darnold was a fraud. Which is largely unfair. So when I say they couldn't re-sign Darnold and tell claim to try to be trying to compete, the issue was mostly optics. 

[Aggies7]

11 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

As far as Darnold, even KOC was saying things like “he will always have a place in our hearts” lol immediately when last season ended. Darnold was never coming back after those last two games.

What if he had played even average ball? Do you think they still put all the eggs in the JJ basket?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

What if he had played even average ball? Do you think they still put all the eggs in the JJ basket?

Oh I am totally with you. If Darnold is anything other than terrible in those games then it would have become a serious discussion. 

[TheLeviathan]

I don't think he was setup to fail - they built him an entire offensive line and organized an amazing group of pass catchers.  Mason was a great pickup too.

The problem is KOC and JJ having to put on the big boy QB pants that Michigan never asked him to do.  But if you know that JJ needs to work on speeding up his process and being able to get the ball out in rhythm.....then you need to call plays that work towards that.  He clearly has talent...that 3rd and 19 throw for a first was a great throw.  The throw to Jefferson was great.

It's the normal 2nd down when we have a long-developing, 5 step drop, multi-read throw EVERY TIME that's the issue.  Yeah....go ahead and try and dagger people from time to time.  Just not every time!  It's not illegal to pick up a first down on 2nd and 6 by throwing a slant.  Or a mesh with some possibilities underneath.

KOC said that organizations fail young QBs more than the reverse.  Right now he's being that organization.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

What if he had played even average ball? Do you think they still put all the eggs in the JJ basket?

If he plays average he probably gets more than one year of guaranteed pay, which probably still means he would have gone elsewhere anyway. Would have been the Kirk Cousins paradox version 2.

[gunnarthor]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't think he was setup to fail - they built him an entire offensive line and organized an amazing group of pass catchers.  Mason was a great pickup too.

The problem is KOC and JJ having to put on the big boy QB pants that Michigan never asked him to do.  But if you know that JJ needs to work on speeding up his process and being able to get the ball out in rhythm.....then you need to call plays that work towards that.  He clearly has talent...that 3rd and 19 throw for a first was a great throw.  The throw to Jefferson was great.

It's the normal 2nd down when we have a long-developing, 5 step drop, multi-read throw EVERY TIME that's the issue.  Yeah....go ahead and try and dagger people from time to time.  Just not every time!  It's not illegal to pick up a first down on 2nd and 6 by throwing a slant.  Or a mesh with some possibilities underneath.

KOC said that organizations fail young QBs more than the reverse.  Right now he's being that organization.

I think this is, more or less, my thinking as well. KOC is a great coach. He motivates his players well, he is a good offensive mind, his teams are, more or less, complete. Where he is weakest though is on Sundays. He doesn't adjust well. Packer fans have stated this for a few years as well. He doesn't stick with the ground game, his PA calls can be pretty obvious, pre-snap. And his passes routinely takes the longest to develop across the NFL. Say what you will about Cousins, but he was tough. He took serious hits. So did Darnold. 

KOC play-calling was my biggest concern coming into the season. I had really hoped he would hire another offensive mind from somewhere other than the McVay family to help him but he didn't. I know this sounds stupid but I think it would be a good idea for the Vikings to bring in someone to audit the offensive side of the ball and push back a bit on the play-calling. 

That said, I think this is still stuff that the Vikes can figure out and fix. Like, I think KOC will win a super bowl with us. But he's not perfect, yet.