Twins/Mariners & Twins/Phillies Deadline Nuggets from Bobby Nightengale

[Chembry]

41 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

The Mariners have been the team building the bullpen from trades for minor leaguers and failed starters. They even traded away their closer to Arizona when in a pennant race. Sign Sewald to the minimum off of waivers. Develop him as a closer. Trade him while in a pennant race for prospects. It would be an abrupt turnabout in process to be on the other end of that deal. 

Here it is.  I missed the word hypothetically so it's probably not completely accurate:

 

[jorgenswest]

@Chembry

Thanks for the work finding the hypothetical. 

Our conversation reminded me of something I started putting together connected to the Mariners and our own blow up of the bullpen. I need to get back to that. Since DiPoto has taken over in 2015 he has consistently traded from his bullpen both at the deadline and the off season. It would be extremely out of character for them to give up significant prospect capital to acquire bullpen arms.

[tony&rodney]

A Jax and Castro for Ford would have been nice. I don't think that Seattle discussed much with Minnesota.

[tony&rodney]

The bottom line is that 9 years of Falvey has yielded Ryan Jeffers as the only position player worth noting. Some may say Lewis hit some grand slams and Wallner hits home runs, but I'm reserving confidence for guys we know can be every day players and not just hopefuls in this last 9 years. Twins fans continue to hope on the prospects and players like Lewis, Wallner, Larnach, Lee, etc. The record speaks for itself as far as position players in the Falvey Era. 

[bunsen82]

On 8/13/2025 at 10:33 AM, Chembry said:

Here it is.  I missed the word hypothetically so it's probably not completely accurate:

 

The other is Cjinte and Ford would have been a massive overpay that I doubt the Mariners would have done.  Even if the Mariners felt their offer was the superior one whatever combination of prospects it was,  for the Twins needs and what they feel they can do with Abel and Tait,  their value and upside could actually be higher for the Twins.  Without knowing the prospects being offered we truly don't know if it was a better offer.  More just hypotheticals.   

[cheeseheadgophfan]

On 8/12/2025 at 7:13 PM, DasBat said:

I personally would have went with Miller.  I think Tait moves off catcher really reducing his value

Why?  What makes you say that?  Granted, I've only seen highlights (and I'm betting that's all you've seen too)...but he looks to have a great arm and quick release.  The auto-ump will be here shortly so the value of a 'framing" catcher is going to be a thing of the past.  

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Why?  What makes you say that?  Granted, I've only seen highlights (and I'm betting that's all you've seen too)...but he looks to have a great arm and quick release.  The auto-ump will be here shortly so the value of a 'framing" catcher is going to be a thing of the past.  

If you are interested and have the time you can watch every game via milb.com. Tait takes a healthy hack at the plate. Thus far he has neither embarrassed himself nor shown any real skills behind the plate. He is only in A+ ball with Cedar Rapids so people should not expect anything at this time. Tait does not project well as a catcher (he is rough now), but I'm willing to be patient. He could be a part time player by 2028.

[cheeseheadgophfan]

19 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

If you are interested and have the time you can watch every game via milb.com. Tait takes a healthy hack at the plate. Thus far he has neither embarrassed himself nor shown any real skills behind the plate. He is only in A+ ball with Cedar Rapids so people should not expect anything at this time. Tait does not project well as a catcher (he is rough now), but I'm willing to be patient. He could be a part time player by 2028.

He's 19.  A year out high school if he was raised in the US.....I don't think you're going to find too many "polished" catchers at that age.....

[tony&rodney]

On 8/14/2025 at 12:06 PM, bunsen82 said:

The other is Cjinte and Ford would have been a massive overpay that I doubt the Mariners would have done.  Even if the Mariners felt their offer was the superior one whatever combination of prospects it was,  for the Twins needs and what they feel they can do with Abel and Tait,  their value and upside could actually be higher for the Twins.  Without knowing the prospects being offered we truly don't know if it was a better offer.  More just hypotheticals.   

There are couple of factors to consider when looking at the Duran trade. First, the Twins did not have to trade Duran. More to reality is the type of player Falvey seeks, which has been repeated over and over. Tait is going to hit (imo). Falvey loves the power. There is a good chance he is moved to 1B or DH  because he needs quite a bit of work behind the plate. He certainly could improve though. Abel can blow away minor league players but if he cannot show good command with his breaking and off speed pitches he will get crushed in MLB. We have already seen this and it was previously known. So Falvey chose those two. There were reports and comments out of Seattle which indicate that the two mentioned were being offered. Harry Ford is more of a skill player and projects to be very good behind the plate and hit for average in the batter's box. He has shown his abilities through AAA and was called up yesterday. Ford is an athlete. The switch pitcher has a high ceiling. Cijntje has looked very talented in the few times I have watched him pitch. The Twins prospect (K. Rosario) hit a HR off of him, but otherwise Wichita had a tough time with Cijntje's pitches. The podcastors prefer the Philly guys. I would have preferred the Mariner's offer. Pitcher love good catchers and guys who can play defense.

It is all just guessing though so no worries about different viewpoints.

[tony&rodney]

4 minutes ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

He's 19.  A year out high school if he was raised in the US.....I don't think you're going to find too many "polished" catchers at that age.....

I'm not sure what you are saying. I said I'm going to be patient, which is why people should keep their expectations down for now as I mentioned. I like Tait. I watch him play most of the time. You can too and any differences of opinion are not really important because time always sorts out things. As far as polish goes, you might be surprised how good some young catchers are, but the better defenders are often very poor with a bat in their hands. This is the difficulty of development. Cedar Rapids plays a very good Quad Cities team at 6:30 pm CDT. tonight.

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

If you are interested and have the time you can watch every game via milb.com. Tait takes a healthy hack at the plate. Thus far he has neither embarrassed himself nor shown any real skills behind the plate. He is only in A+ ball with Cedar Rapids so people should not expect anything at this time. Tait does not project well as a catcher (he is rough now), but I'm willing to be patient. He could be a part time player by 2028.

Have had a chance to watch Enrique Jimenez?

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Have had a chance to watch Enrique Jimenez?

Not more than a few PA and an inning here and there. No thoughts on him at this time.

FWIW, Tait was not good at the plate but good behind it tonight. He handled his chores very well tonight for his pitcher. The path to MLB is long. 

[bunsen82]

5 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

There are couple of factors to consider when looking at the Duran trade. First, the Twins did not have to trade Duran. More to reality is the type of player Falvey seeks, which has been repeated over and over. Tait is going to hit (imo). Falvey loves the power. There is a good chance he is moved to 1B or DH  because he needs quite a bit of work behind the plate. He certainly could improve though. Abel can blow away minor league players but if he cannot show good command with his breaking and off speed pitches he will get crushed in MLB. We have already seen this and it was previously known. So Falvey chose those two. There were reports and comments out of Seattle which indicate that the two mentioned were being offered. Harry Ford is more of a skill player and projects to be very good behind the plate and hit for average in the batter's box. He has shown his abilities through AAA and was called up yesterday. Ford is an athlete. The switch pitcher has a high ceiling. Cijntje has looked very talented in the few times I have watched him pitch. The Twins prospect (K. Rosario) hit a HR off of him, but otherwise Wichita had a tough time with Cijntje's pitches. The podcastors prefer the Philly guys. I would have preferred the Mariner's offer. Pitcher love good catchers and guys who can play defense.

It is all just guessing though so no worries about different viewpoints.

All good on my end. I thought it had been reported Ford was not in the deal. Who knows what was actually offered. So far Tait has looked solid.  Abel has struggled but I don’t have worries yet. I expect him to make significant strides over the offseason.  It’s been mentioned he is tipping pitches.  It makes sense. We will see if he can correct it.

[tony&rodney]

Just now, bunsen82 said:

All good on my end. I thought it had been reported Ford was not in the deal. Who knows what was actually offered. So far Tait has looked solid.  Abel has struggled but I don’t have worries yet. I expect him to make significant strides over the offseason.  It’s been mentioned he is tipping pitches.  It makes sense. We will see if he can correct it.

What is done is done. I'm hoping for miracles. 

[bunsen82]

7 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

What is done is done. I'm hoping for miracles. 

You don't need miracles.  Go look at Abel's 1st start.  9k's yes there wasn't a book on him,  but he isn't far off and has shown he works hard in the offseason.  Struggles in 1st taste, dominates the level the next year.  We don't need domination,  we need him to be confident and comfortable.  Worst case you let him let it rip and throw him in the pen with 100 mph fastball.   We often want immediate returns.  I am fine having patience.  Odds are he is a significant part of our starting rotation for the next 5 years.  

[bunsen82]

On 9/2/2025 at 10:19 PM, tony&rodney said:

What is done is done. I'm hoping for miracles. 

 

On 9/2/2025 at 9:06 PM, tony&rodney said:

Not more than a few PA and an inning here and there. No thoughts on him at this time.

FWIW, Tait was not good at the plate but good behind it tonight. He handled his chores very well tonight for his pitcher. The path to MLB is long. 

Tony - curious if you were able to watch Tait and Jimenez more and what you thought, specifically on the defensive side.  

As to miracles, I stated before we don't need miracles we just need players continuing to improve.  Both Abel and Bradley showed their upside in each of their last starts.  Tait - appears to have a very nice swing with immense power.  Jimenez with more of a power profile looks like a legitimate catcher option.   Throw in Mendez and Rojas.   In my opinion those are the 6 players that will have a long term affect for this organization.   Anything you get from Roden, Horn, and Gallagher is gravy.  

[tony&rodney]

31 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

 

Tony - curious if you were able to watch Tait and Jimenez more and what you thought, specifically on the defensive side.  

As to miracles, I stated before we don't need miracles we just need players continuing to improve.  Both Abel and Bradley showed their upside in each of their last starts.  Tait - appears to have a very nice swing with immense power.  Jimenez with more of a power profile looks like a legitimate catcher option.   Throw in Mendez and Rojas.   In my opinion those are the 6 players that will have a long term affect for this organization.   Anything you get from Roden, Horn, and Gallagher is gravy.  

There is probably someone on Twins Daily who has seen Tait or Jimenez play in person numerous times. That person could give a better account. I watch a ton of minor league games, often skipping around with different screens to focus on specific pitchers and players. I do watch complete games too, to catch the flow of a game.

A and A+ ball is a long way from MLB. My impression of Tait is that he is pretty athletic, something I prioritize. He looked good behind the plate on the occasion I remarked on but generally was very raw. He has quite a ways to go to improve behind the plate. He could be ready by 2028 or 2029. The bat can be ferocious but he doesn't control his plate appearances. It is just a lack of experience. I think he is a solid prospect and well worth following. 

I only saw Jimenez a few times, around 6 games. I have no real thoughts on him based on limited viewing. My limited viewing of Rojas and Mendez made me think they could be helpful players in a couple of years.

All Twins fans want the team to be good next year but their roster is a mess. When one looks at each individual on the roster there are positive attributes that deserve positive thoughts. We can go over each player, which Doc often does, and highlight the best case scenario. However, the cumulative effect of the current team is probably a 65-75 win squad. 

The trades in July were a message of change. It would be rather unusual if the offseason did not bring 4-7 more trades. Adding veterans will not raise the team. Remember that the Twins received more than they dreamed from  Bader, France, and Coulombe. That was good for a 72 win season. Things can get much worse attempting different band aids.

The miracle is a making really good trades and getting solid performances from numerous inexperienced players, such EmRod, Jenkins, Gonzalez, Fedko, Abel, Festa, Matthews, Morris, and Prielipp. Baseball is a tough business and miracles seldom happen. Hopefully the Twins have a plan different than the last 9 years.

[bunsen82]

9 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

The trades in July were a message of change. It would be rather unusual if the offseason did not bring 4-7 more trades. Adding veterans will not raise the team. Remember that the Twins received more than they dreamed from  Bader, France, and Coulombe. That was good for a 72 win season. Things can get much worse attempting different band aids.

The miracle is a making really good trades and getting solid performances from numerous inexperienced players, such EmRod, Jenkins, Gonzalez, Fedko, Abel, Festa, Matthews, Morris, and Prielipp. Baseball is a tough business and miracles seldom happen. Hopefully the Twins have a plan different than the last 9 years.

"And you gotta keep moving forward, and trust that you’re making the right decision."  Joe Pohlad

If you are correct yes they keep trading but its not 4-7 trades.  Its really 1.   Ryan, which if that was the case they should have traded him to the Red Sox as you would have gotten more value at the deadline theoretically plus you would have ripped the band aid off all at once.   

We got a 72 Twin team because 1. we tanked at the end of year  2. Pablo got injured  3. We did not have enough contact hitters on the team that got on base enough.  Otherwise we were on pace for mid 80's win total Tony.    

You need at least 1 vocal veteran on any rebuilding team for fielders and starting pitching.   For the Twins I think that is Buxton and Pablo.  You won't trade Jeffers as we really don't have anyone to replace him with.  The only reasonable trade is Ryan, which as stated above I question the timing and value of not trading him at the deadline.   

As to getting solid performances from multiple inexperienced players it is not unheard of.  Just look at the Orioles from a couple years ago or Detroit.  I think people will be surprised how easily the bullpen can be rebuilt in the offseason.  If you can get a couple more hitters on this team in the vein of Keaschall yes the offense becomes much more potent and dangerous.  

I guess its the timeline.  No they won't compete for a World Series next year.  Could they get to the playoffs, absolutely.  As constructed yes this is probably a 70 win team.  I anticipate significant rearranging of the team,  1st in free agency and trades, and utilizing some of our excess prospects to supplement the MLB team.    I think once all said and done we will be in the 75-80 range with upside potential.   

[tony&rodney]

8 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

We got a 72 Twin team because 1. we tanked at the end of year  2. Pablo got injured  3. We did not have enough contact hitters on the team that got on base enough.  Otherwise we were on pace for mid 80's win total Tony.   

Where we differ is in our views of the roster. I had picked the Twins to win 83 games if everything went well. The Twins did not have nearly as many injuries as most squads.  My fears were the team would stumble with poor hitting and defense. Sadly, that came true. 

As a Twins fan I adopt the players and make every attempt to see the best in every player. However, decades of playing, coaching, and managing with some scouting along the way makes me also look critically at the roster. I see an unbalanced team. The pitching staff has real promise and probably only needs one or two bullpen arms to stabilize their unit. The position side is a wreck, imo. If everything went on my thoughts (at this time) only 2 regulars return, 2 regulars become utility players, and possibly 2 more on on a bubble; in other words change.

I do know that I don't know what the Twins plan and am very sure many of the same players will be back. I will still support the team, of course, but the team needs to vastly improve their defense. When one has followed the Twins since listening to their first game on the radio in 1961 there are always conflicting thoughts on the team.