Worst 15 Game Start in Team History

[tlkriens]

The Minnesota Twins 4-11 start is tied for the worst 15 game start to begin a season in team history. You have to go back to the 1904 Washington Senators (1-14) to find a worse 15 game start in franchise history.

I'm sure at some point this team will win 4 or 5 in a row, but when do you start to make changes? The season is basically over before the middle of April. Series vs. the Mets, at Atlanta, vs. White Sox, vs. Angels. The only teams I got say they are better than right now is the Rockies and maybe Chicago.

[jaimedude]

4 hours ago, tlkriens said:

The Minnesota Twins 4-11 start is tied for the worst 15 game start to begin a season in team history. You have to go back to the 1904 Washington Senators (1-14) to find a worse 15 game start in franchise history.

I'm sure at some point this team will win 4 or 5 in a row, but when do you start to make changes? The season is basically over before the middle of April. Series vs. the Mets, at Atlanta, vs. White Sox, vs. Angels. The only teams I got say they are better than right now is the Rockies and maybe Chicago.

Last place in offense. This is a trend that started during the collapse last year. I saw Buxton watch pitches he crushed last year. Nobody is hardly hitting. Hard to win many games when your barely scoring 2 runs a game. We tried firing the hitting coach, what is next? At least now,  It's clear Rocco isn't getting the team to respond. Leadership is lacking on this roster. I don't know what a good answer is but it is not fun seeing the team you cheer for going the motions.  

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, jaimedude said:

Last place in offense. This is a trend that started during the collapse last year. I saw Buxton watch pitches he crushed last year. Nobody is hardly hitting. Hard to win many games when you’re barely scoring 2 runs a game. We tried firing the hitting coach, what us next? It's clear Rocco isn't getting the team to respond. Leadership is lacking on this roster. 

Only way to get manager and hitting coach fired is don’t come watching at Target Field.   

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, Irishman said:

Only way to get manager and hitting coach fired is don’t come watching at Target Field.   

Even better way to trigger a full rebuild like the White Sox are undergoing.

[Twodogs]

Divisions can't be won in April but they probably can be lost.  I don't think getting rid of the manager is going to do much.  I feel like when it's time for a change it's Falvey that'll need to go, or he will just replace Rocco with another Rocco.  Someone who does everything he tells him to do.  A lot of today's game is controlled be the GM's it seems like a lot of managers don't have complete control of their lineups and whatnot.  So if the Twins stay stagnant, that probably means that Falvey assembled a flawed team.  Which in turn would mean Falvey would need to go along with a new manager, etc..... hopefully a new ownership group too?

[laloesch]

9 hours ago, Twodogs said:

Divisions can't be won in April but they probably can be lost.  I don't think getting rid of the manager is going to do much.  I feel like when it's time for a change it's Falvey that'll need to go, or he will just replace Rocco with another Rocco.  Someone who does everything he tells him to do.  A lot of today's game is controlled be the GM's it seems like a lot of managers don't have complete control of their lineups and whatnot.  So if the Twins stay stagnant, that probably means that Falvey assembled a flawed team.  Which in turn would mean Falvey would need to go along with a new manager, etc..... hopefully a new ownership group too?

 

On 4/12/2025 at 8:51 PM, bean5302 said:

Even better way to trigger a full rebuild like the White Sox are undergoing.

That's the exit door I think as well.  They are just gonna have to unload all of these guys, along with Lopez, Ryan, and Ober to rebuild.  This team doesn't play well together, has no fire, can't rise to the occasion, and can't win.  And it's clear as night and day they can't hit the broad side of a barn, PERIOD. 

Correa and Buxton are the keystones this franchise is built around and they are failing miserably, along with Rocco.  Unfortunately, this is a well-defined pattern.  I'm sorry to say this again, but both those contracts are gonna haunt this franchise financially for at least 4-5 years, unless they get new owners or work out some miracle trades to rid themselves of both players. 

All that said, the new good news is that there's no way Correa gets enough at-bats in 2028 to vest, he's simply not capable of it.  I honestly think (aside from his defense) that Correa hurts the team more than he helps it (offensively speaking).  Buxton likewise is a complete lost cause.  He'll always play defense well, and occasionally has flashes of relevance on offense (like the game on Sunday against the Tigers), but then it's followed by 5 or 6 games of absolutely nothing.   

With Lewis being an almost permanent fixture on the injured list, there's no path forward, but to shed players via trades and just rebuild.  Just my opinion. 

[insagt1]

Talk about a dead team. This lineup that failed in September is mostly the same one that is failing now...except that both Correa and Buxton are also failing and constant complainer/perpetual injury Lewis hasn't played yet. This is a terrible team and is likely to 'battle' the Chisox for the basement. I don't see where the turnaround exists. Hope I'm wrong but the Twins are unwatchable.

[bean5302]

1 hour ago, laloesch said:

...All that said, the new good news is that there's no way Correa gets enough at-bats in 2028 to vest, he's simply not capable of it...

Current Twins players (or players who were on the Twins) over the past 4 completed seasons who qualified for batting title based on 504+ PA
2021 - Ty France (650)
2021 - Carlos Correa (640)

2022 - Ty France (613)
2022 Carlos Correa (590)

2023 - Ty France (665)
2023 Carlos Correa (580)

2024 - Willi Castro (635)
2024 - Ty France (535)

 

[laloesch]

6 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Current Twins players (or players who were on the Twins) over the past 4 completed seasons who qualified for batting title based on 504+ PA
2021 - Ty France (650)
2021 - Carlos Correa (640)

2022 - Ty France (613)
2022 Carlos Correa (590)

2023 - Ty France (665)
2023 Carlos Correa (580)

2024 - Willi Castro (635)
2024 - Ty France (535)

 

2024? - 366 PA

He needs 575 plate appearances in 2028, that's not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination given his injury history.

And in his previous seven seasons with the Astros he only made 575 + plate appearances TWICE and five of those seasons he was well below 500 PA.

[bean5302]

1 minute ago, laloesch said:

2024? - 366 PA

He needs 575 plate appearances in 2028, that's not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination given his injury history.

There's a fair chance Correa gets to 575 considering he's done it 3 of the past 4 years. There's a strong sentiment in the forums labeling Correa as injury prone like Buxton, but Correa has been one of the more durable players in MLB over the past few years.

Personally, I think it's probably 50/50 he gets there.

[laloesch]

1 minute ago, bean5302 said:

There's a fair chance Correa gets to 575 considering he's done it 3 of the past 4 years. There's a strong sentiment in the forums labeling Correa as injury prone like Buxton, but Correa has been one of the more durable players in MLB over the past few years.

Personally, I think it's probably 50/50 he gets there.

Fair enough, but still by 2028 he'll be 33? Good chance he's going downhill in that timeframe so the 575 PA will become more difficult given his injury history and age at that point.  I still think it's a lot less than a 50/50 chance by 2028. 

I've had plantar fasciitis and it's no joke.  It never completely goes away either especially if your arches have collapsed in the past and or the individual is flat footed.  Plantar fasciitis typically goes hand in hand with back troubles which I also suffer from.  I also used to be an avid runner and can't do it anymore at 45.  It's also lead to arthritis in both of my feet that started to appear in my 30's. 

He may get lucky and be spared until his early 40's but the fact that he's had back and foot issues long before his age 30 season is not a good sign, it's all linked together (back, legs, feet). 

[bean5302]

11 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Fair enough, but still by 2028 he'll be 33? Good chance he's going downhill in that timeframe so the 575 PA will become more difficult given his injury history and age at that point.  I still think it's a lot less than a 50/50 chance by 2028. 

I've had plantar fasciitis and it's no joke.  It never completely goes away either especially if your arches have collapsed in the past and or the individual is flat footed.  Plantar fasciitis typically goes hand in hand with back troubles which I also suffer from.  I also used to be an avid runner and can't do it anymore at 45.  It's also lead to arthritis in both of my feet that started to appear in my 30's. 

He may get lucky and be spared until his early 40's but the fact that he's had back and foot issues long before his age 30 season is not a good sign, it's all linked together (back, legs, feet). 

Equally likely the Twins fire Baldelli for a manager who doesn't believe in musical chairs for who gets playing time or so many scheduled days off. Foot injuries can be troublesome for sure, but when you have $35MM a year of income to address issues, you can get some pretty amazing solutions to address those issues. If I recall, the plantar issue was in different feet in 2023 and 2024. It's crazy how one foot can be so troublesome while the other foot never has the issue, but I've had it happen running as well.

If Correa doesn't produce during the 2028 campaign, the solution is just to bench him more. If he does produce and the contract vests, it was worth it. That's years away, though. The problems the Twins have right now are:
1) Ownership
2) Front office
3) Manager
4) Other things

[tony&rodney]

How many people on Twins Daily are actually thinking a full scale White Sox, Orioles, Astros, Tigers, etc. type rebuild is necessary or acceptable? I'm not sure I can stomach 3-5 100+ loss seasons.

I sat right behind Dusty Baker when the Twins were eliminated just a couple of years ago. The team needed some changes then to take another step forward. That step was not adding the two guys most commonly named: Jordan Montgomery and Rhys Hoskins. The Twins needed an infusion of speed, defense, and athleticism. This was and remains my thought. The problem wasn't ownership spending, although the ownership group seems to totally be out of place when it come to running public relations or a business. The problem was identifying and acquiring players. This is always a bit of a gamble and creates some anger and disagreement at times. There were thousands of angry comments when Luis Arraez was traded. My suggestion in October of 2023 was to trade Royce Lewis and Edouard Julien. That would have really pissed off some people. So here we are with the team that Falvey has put together. The Twins added Coulombe, Bader, France, and Gasper. Falvey professed great confidence in this team. How far will this team go?

Next, what changes will result in positive change if you think change is needed? My best guess is that 3-4 moves could be made but the cost may be high. What players does the team keep from the current group or target from other teams? Realism is needed. Gambling can always result in a worse situation. This where the team is now.

Personally I'm still going to wait until June before getting too excited. The Twins are 5-12 today. Game #60 is on June 2nd. If the Twins are playing the same at 18-42, there is a real serious problem. If the team is at 25-35, a sliver of light is still visible. Going 20-23 from now until then is not exactly crushing it but there may then be a few changes made to at least restore some positive vibes. Until then I am hoping for the best and thinking positive.

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

How many people on Twins Daily are actually thinking a full scale White Sox, Orioles, Astros, Tigers, etc. type rebuild is necessary or acceptable? I'm not sure I can stomach 3-5 100+ loss seasons.

Clearly, the manager needs to go. They've tried to change the coaches but that hasn't done the job. If the guy they want is still under contract elsewhere, they can wait until the end of the season.

Next, they need to trade anyone who is a free agent or might get non-tendered. That's Bader, France, Castro, Paddack, Vazquez, Tonkin, Stewart, Topa, and Coulombe. They can lose with or without those guys this year. Some moves might be addition by subtraction. Bring up Austin Martin, Jair Camargo, Luke Keaschall and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Next, sell high on players who are older but might get a premium in trade. That's Jax, Ober. Lopez and Ryan. However, I wouldn't sell more than one of the top 3 starting pitchers. They need to open up spots for Festa and Matthews. Paddack will be gone but that only opens one spot.

I think that's enough for now. That's subtracting 7 arms and 4 position players. Use the rest of the season to evaluate who you got in trade and whoever is still remaining on the roster.

Edited April 15, 2025 by DJL44
Forgot Willi Castro

[jaimedude]

14 hours ago, Twodogs said:

Divisions can't be won in April but they probably can be lost.  I don't think getting rid of the manager is going to do much.  I feel like when it's time for a change it's Falvey that'll need to go, or he will just replace Rocco with another Rocco.  Someone who does everything he tells him to do.  A lot of today's game is controlled be the GM's it seems like a lot of managers don't have complete control of their lineups and whatnot.  So if the Twins stay stagnant, that probably means that Falvey assembled a flawed team.  Which in turn would mean Falvey would need to go along with a new manager, etc..... hopefully a new ownership group too?

If Rocco doesn't have a say in his line-ups or team or control then why is he even the manager. The GM's job is to aquire, scout and bring in talent, then trust his people to develop the talent. Not set line-up , make starting or bullpen pitching decisions or hame day calls. Advance scouts analytics and coaches help, but the manager has final say.  I'm hoping at some point Rocco starts pushing the right buttons. I mean they hit the ball a lot harder than a last place team. At some point the dribbles and line drives should turn the Twins way some. At least statistically and modeling you would think so. I mean they are not without talent. Maybe we should wear the M caps more? Something needs to change, a stinky rally sausage, a holy striped tube sock, some sage. Something will break the current curse. Baseball is a game of doing the details and little stuff right. If Rocco doesn't turn it and pull the right strings he will not be here next year. 

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Clearly, the manager needs to go. They've tried to change the coaches but that hasn't done the job. If the guy they want is still under contract elsewhere, they can wait until the end of the season.

Next, they need to trade anyone who is a free agent or might get non-tendered. That's Bader, France, Paddack, Vazquez, Tonkin, Stewart, Topa, and Coulombe. They can lose with or without those guys this year. Some moves might be addition by subtraction. Bring up Austin Martin, Jair Camargo, Luke Keaschall and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Next, sell high on players who are older but might get a premium in trade. That's Jax, Ober. Lopez and Ryan. However, I wouldn't sell more than one of the top 3 starting pitchers. They need to open up spots for Festa and Matthews. Paddack will be gone but that only opens one spot.

I think that's enough for now. That's subtracting 7 arms and 3 position players. Use the rest of the season to evaluate who you got in trade and whoever is still remaining on the roster.

There were a number of folks on Twins Daily willing to gamble on a trade of Lopez, Ryan, or Ober last winter. My take is all three are really good but I did wonder what type of offers were out there for one of the three. The same was proposed for one of Duran or Jax. Others were also put forward as potentially bringing back some value to improve the roster. Most people would agree that trades which make the team more competitive are worthy. One must admit that we don't actually know the value of Twins players as perceived by other teams much less what return is possible. Falvey was happy to gain Gasper. The beating from the Cincy and Baltimore trades may have made DF forget the Miami and Tampa Bay trades. I guess it is really tough to know. One thing we can agree on is that it doesn't work to just release everyone. Win tonight ... feel better tomorrow.

[jaimedude]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Clearly, the manager needs to go. They've tried to change the coaches but that hasn't done the job. If the guy they want is still under contract elsewhere, they can wait until the end of the season.

Next, they need to trade anyone who is a free agent or might get non-tendered. That's Bader, France, Paddack, Vazquez, Tonkin, Stewart, Topa, and Coulombe. They can lose with or without those guys this year. Some moves might be addition by subtraction. Bring up Austin Martin, Jair Camargo, Luke Keaschall and Emmanuel Rodriguez.

Next, sell high on players who are older but might get a premium in trade. That's Jax, Ober. Lopez and Ryan. However, I wouldn't sell more than one of the top 3 starting pitchers. They need to open up spots for Festa and Matthews. Paddack will be gone but that only opens one spot.

I think that's enough for now. That's subtracting 7 arms and 3 position players. Use the rest of the season to evaluate who you got in trade and whoever is still remaining on the roster.

I'm not trading Ober, Ryan, Lopez. They do need those parts to win games. What we need most is a line up boost that opens up at bats a and fastball for more guys. A right handed guy that fouls off pitches, works counts and drives pitches into the gaps and doesn't just pull the ball. That guy used to be Correa, now C4 seems to just rely on his defense as a contributor. It's still elite defense but we could use him hitting balls to the gaps again.  You would think he would want a ring and ride with his guys. Right now he doesn't even look like a shadow or shell of that guy.  Kicker is, he works hard and it is in there. Buck os streakey but when he is on one he is a lot of fun to watch. We need a healthy confident Royce Lewis back also.  Could use another professional hitter to DH too. Not sure the source on that. 

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

I'm not trading Ober, Ryan, Lopez. 

Eventually they will either trade those pitchers or they will issue qualifying offers after 2027 and let them walk as free agents. I wouldn't trade all three, but if they really want to add a good bat, they will need to part with one of them.