Vikings 2024 Season

[nicksaviking]

Things are looking pretty dang good, but the one thing that is bothering me is that this team doesn't seem capable of running a full allotment of short yardage plays specifically running up the middle.

There's probably some stats that I don't know how to find, but based on the game logs, it appears in the first two games of the season I count three times the Vikings were either 3rd or 4th and less than two yards where they ran it up the middle and succeeded. However, in the last two games, they've found themselves in 3rd or 4th and short nine times and they've dropped back to pass six of those times and tried to run off tackle or stretch it out three times. 

Questions about the run blocking skills of the interior O-Line is nothing new. Is it completely out of the question to stick someone like Quesenberry or whomever is a better run blocking reserve lineman in at center in these situations? I know you'd have to practice the snap, but if running behind Bradbury for a must-get yard isn't possible, you know that that is exactly what's going to happen when the season is on the line in the playoffs.

[gunnarthor]

No team is going to be perfect. The offense's weakness is the interior line but it's still a strong line. Top 10 by most accounts right now. That they can't do a dive play for a yard is troubling but things could be worse. Remember, KC won the super bowl with sub-standard tackles, the Bills receiving corp is still somewhat suspect, Dallas is built wrong, etc. 

The other issue is partly KOC - his strength as a play caller is not having any fear. But that creates problems, he thinks whatever we call can work so a jet sweep to the short side of the field on 4-1? No problem. I think KOC is a great play caller and a huge, huge asset to the team but he'll make some pretty weird play calls at time - remember when he wanted Cook to jump shot a pass into the endzone against Buffalo? 

[Mike Sixel]

In "defense" of KOC near the goal line, the Lions ran one of KOC's trick plays down there and scored last night......

I'd love a better blocking OL, but I don't know how many great OL there even are any more....

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

In "defense" of KOC near the goal line, the Lions ran one of KOC's trick plays down there and scored last night......

I'd love a better blocking OL, but I don't know how many great OL there even are any more....

Only Detroit from where I sit.  I think the line we just played in Green Bay looks pretty damn good too.  They held our pass rush in check better than anyone else has and they were opening some gaping holes against our front.

I do think concerns about Bradbury getting run over alters our 4th down play calling.  I guess my takeaway was...Nailor....fall your butt forward the moment you can.

[cHawk]

They've blown me away thus far. Hopefully this isn't just a repeat of 2016.

[nicksaviking]

16 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Only Detroit from where I sit.  I think the line we just played in Green Bay looks pretty damn good too.  They held our pass rush in check better than anyone else has and they were opening some gaping holes against our front.

I do think concerns about Bradbury getting run over alters our 4th down play calling.  I guess my takeaway was...Nailor....fall your butt forward the moment you can.

That's why I was wondering if it's out of the question to sub in a better run blocker for just those situations. Even if it's a tackle or a guard.

No team seems to do that, but outside of practicing the snap, I'm not sure why.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

That's why I was wondering if it's out of the question to sub in a better run blocker for just those situations. Even if it's a tackle or a guard.

No team seems to do that, but outside of practicing the snap, I'm not sure why.

Might give away your play call?  Not sure.

If the fear about Bradbury is that intense....that's really saying something.  I thought he has played pretty well so far, even if Lawrence ate him a few times.

[nicksaviking]

I wouldn’t be against trading Addison for LT help. I’m not convinced he’s even better than Nailor. Addison still has tons of control, he’d be attractive to a rebuild team. Not sure what else I’d want back in addition to what’s likely only an average at best tackle, but I wouldn’t be terribly stubborn about it.
 

And if he’s whining now, it’s not going to help his value later. Does Montana have a team? That state famously has no speed limit.

[gunnarthor]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

 

I wouldn’t be against trading Addison for LT help. I’m not convinced he’s even better than Nailor. Addison still has tons of control, he’d be attractive to a rebuild team. Not sure what else I’d want back in addition to what’s likely only an average at best tackle, but I wouldn’t be terribly stubborn about it.
 

And if he’s whining now, it’s not going to help his value later. Does Montana have a team? That state famously has no speed limit.

I think he's a lot better than Nailor. I don't think he's untradeable but I don't think there are many LT worth trading him for. Darrisaw should be back next year so it would just be a rental. 

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, gunnarthor said:

I think he's a lot better than Nailor. I don't think he's untradeable but I don't think there are many LT worth trading him for. Darrisaw should be back next year so it would just be a rental. 

If there's a controllable OL who can play a passable tackle this year, and move inside next year, I'd be pretty interested.

But not sure who that player would be. Honestly, I probably look to trade Addison this off season anyway. I don't like how he's trending, both on the field and off.

[gunnarthor]

11 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If there's a controllable OL who can play a passable tackle this year, and move inside next year, I'd be pretty interested.

But not sure who that player would be. Honestly, I probably look to trade Addison this off season anyway. I don't like how he's trending, both on the field and off.

Yeah, I'd be ok moving him for a LB or DT that has a few years under contract but, again, not sure who that would be.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd deal him for a big time DT or RG with at least one year of control past this year, that they can re-sign. I'd consider dealing him for a first. 

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd deal him for a big time DT or RG with at least one year of control past this year, that they can re-sign. I'd consider dealing him for a first. 

What do you have to add to Addison to get Maxx Crosby?

[TheLeviathan]

I'd bet they move Brandel to LT and put Risner at LG.

That's my prediction.  I think they deal one of their 5th rounders for a DT, OL, or CB.  (Probably get a 6th or a 7th back with the guy)

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

What do you have to add to Addison to get Maxx Crosby?

The owner has made it clear they aren't trading him.....

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'd bet they move Brandel to LT and put Risner at LG.

That's my prediction.  I think they deal one of their 5th rounders for a DT, OL, or CB.  (Probably get a 6th or a 7th back with the guy)

I think that's likely. Yuck. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 10/27/2024 at 3:04 PM, nicksaviking said:

What do you have to add to Addison to get Maxx Crosby?

2 first round picks.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Addison has played in 5 games this year, and put up a 14/231/1 line.  That's 48/785/4 over a 17 game season, which is not awful, but certainly is not what you want from your #2 receiver, and therefore not someone you're going to pick up the 5th year on.  As such, if Addison doesn't get things turned around, WR has to be added to C, LG, RG, RB, DLx2, and CBx2 as positions that really need to get figured out.  That's 9 players we need-Kwesi is gonna have to find a bunch more Grennards and Van Ginkels.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On 10/1/2024 at 1:23 PM, gunnarthor said:

No team is going to be perfect. The offense's weakness is the interior line but it's still a strong line. Top 10 by most accounts right now. That they can't do a dive play for a yard is troubling but things could be worse. Remember, KC won the super bowl with sub-standard tackles, the Bills receiving corp is still somewhat suspect, Dallas is built wrong, etc. 

The other issue is partly KOC - his strength as a play caller is not having any fear. But that creates problems, he thinks whatever we call can work so a jet sweep to the short side of the field on 4-1? No problem. I think KOC is a great play caller and a huge, huge asset to the team but he'll make some pretty weird play calls at time - remember when he wanted Cook to jump shot a pass into the endzone against Buffalo? 

Disagree.  Since KOC took over, the Vikings have gone from 7th, to 10th, to 19th in yards (in Zimmer's last 3 seasons, which are not considered to be exemplars of great offensive play, they were 16th, 4th, and 12th).  The true barometer of how KOC teams fare is actually TO margin; 12th in 2022 and 6th this year, but 30th last year.

I don't think KOC is bad, and we certainly could have a much worse person running the offense, but he's also not great.  He's not paddling backwards, but I don't know that he's paddling forwards either.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Colts are turning to Flacco.  Should give Richardson the time to take a cat nap or two.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42074936/sources-colts-bench-anthony-richardson-turn-joe-flacco

[TheLeviathan]

8 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Disagree.  Since KOC took over, the Vikings have gone from 7th, to 10th, to 19th in yards (in Zimmer's last 3 seasons, which are not considered to be exemplars of great offensive play, they were 16th, 4th, and 12th).  The true barometer of how KOC teams fare is actually TO margin; 12th in 2022 and 6th this year, but 30th last year.

I don't think KOC is bad, and we certainly could have a much worse person running the offense, but he's also not great.  He's not paddling backwards, but I don't know that he's paddling forwards either.

I mean....you acknowledge that last year's 19th has some factors in it beyond KOC right?  Were you here for last year?  Do you not remember what last year entailed?

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

I mean....you acknowledge that last year's 19th has some factors in it beyond KOC right?  Were you here for last year?  Do you not remember what last year entailed?

Last year was 10th.  This year is 19th.  Try again.

[TheLeviathan]

27 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Last year was 10th.  This year is 19th.  Try again.

You think after 7 games (which includes the most difficult stretch of their season) is a good time to make year by year comparisons?

Also...we finished 10th with Mullens and Dobbs at QB......and you still want to toss out that kind of claim?

KOC can be criticized, I've done so myself here on TD, but criticisms should attempt fairness.  Yours is deliberately cooking the stats to fit an agenda.

[Mike Sixel]

Yards shmards. They are seventh in scoring. Way more important.

[Parfigliano]

2 hours ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

Colts are turning to Flacco.  Should give Richardson the time to take a cat nap or two.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/42074936/sources-colts-bench-anthony-richardson-turn-joe-flacco

No luck.  Get to face competent Flacco instead of draft bust Richardson.

[Cap'n Piranha]

Vikings trading for Cam Robinson, LT, from Jax.  No word yet on what draft compensation is going the other way, as far as I can tell.

He’s a FA after the year, and since he’s been tagged twice, it would be almost impossible to tag him again.  So unless the Vikings sign him to an extension before the season is done (which doesn’t make much sense), this is a true rental.

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Yards shmards. They are seventh in scoring. Way more important.

Right, two of the Vikings lowest yardage games came when the game was over before half time. You usually don’t get yards in those kinds of games.

Detroit just scored 52 points and only totaled 225 yards total.

[Mike Sixel]

Vikings somehow give up a fourth round pick for an OT. Compared to the other deals, this is not impressive. I'm having real doubts about the GM . Sure, it could be a fifth, but if he's good at all it's a fourth.

Edit... It's in 2026.... So I love this trade if he's good at all

[Cap'n Piranha]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Yards shmards. They are seventh in scoring. Way more important.

On the season, sure.  Over the last 14 quarters?  5 offensive TDs.  That’s literally half of the season to date, everything since half time of the GB game.  They could certainly snap out of this, but the offense struggling is no longer a small sample issue.

[Cap'n Piranha]

3 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

You think after 7 games (which includes the most difficult stretch of their season) is a good time to make year by year comparisons?

Also...we finished 10th with Mullens and Dobbs at QB......and you still want to toss out that kind of claim?

KOC can be criticized, I've done so myself here on TD, but criticisms should attempt fairness.  Yours is deliberately cooking the stats to fit an agenda.

I think that 7 games is more than 40% of the season, which is in no way a small sample—it’s equivalent to almost 70 games in an MLB season.

if he’s so good that he can turn Dobbs and Mullens into the 10th best offense by yards, what does it say about Darnold that they’re now 19th?  Is Darnold that much worse, and if so, shouldn’t we turn to Mullens since he’s still on the roster?

im not criticizing KOC per se.  I’m saying sometimes it feels like posters on this board just assume he’s a great offensive mind because he came from LA.  I’m saying to this point he hasn’t really done anything to make me think he’s in the McVay, Shanahan, Reid tier, or anywhere close to that.  He’s not bottom 10, but I don’t think he’s top 10 either, and non-top 10 offensive minds aren’t going to win a Super Bowl without a dominant defense.