Ryan's pre season statements.

[Badsmerf]

There is nothing wrong with being a casual fan. If you stick around and read a little bit you can pick up a lot of knowledge pretty quickly. Thats how many of us learned more about the game. Also, many of us have been on internet forums for 10+ years now (some, the same message boards for that long). A lot of inside jokes and snark. Don't be afraid to post, state opinions ect., it only makes it easier to teach when someone's position is known. Have fun. Great site... meh, I'd call it good... lol.

[Guest USAFChief]

Ryan provided a game changing theory to the game of baseball. He refused to trade prospects for vets and he demanded a high price in exchange for his vets. At the time teams were willing to make these moves because while clubs valued their very top young guys, any prospect that wasn't deemed elite was expendable and Ryan took advantage of other teams' "Win Now" mentality. This practice is widely adopted now which means he has lost his advantage. I don't know that Ryan has any other cards to play. He's too conservative and his hoarding of cheap young players seems to be the only revolutionary move that fits into his MO. The gig is up.

Uh, no. He didn't.

[drjim]

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

 

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.

[Riverbrian]

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

 

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.

 

More importantly... He'd also be crushed by the players because he just said publicly that these guys have no chance.

 

If I was owner and my GM said anything resembling no chance before the season started... I'd fire him on the spot.

 

Hey Escobar... You are on the roster but you have no chance of helping. Hey Pelfrey... I'm gonna spend a few million on you but you have no chance of helping.

 

I really don't get the expectation on this thread.

[TheLeviathan]

I don't see how it's any different to say "Well, I think we're building to the future" and limiting your off-season spending to Pelfrey and Correia.

 

Ryan had already said it figuratively. You might as well say it literally as well. The same argument works against players - I'm guessing Mauer and Morneau are "savvy" enough to realize this team wasn't going anywhere too.

 

So who in the hell are you hiding it from?

[drjim]

I don't see how it's any different to say "Well, I think we're building to the future" and limiting your off-season spending to Pelfrey and Correia.

 

Ryan had already said it figuratively. You might as well say it literally as well. The same argument works against players - I'm guessing Mauer and Morneau are "savvy" enough to realize this team wasn't going anywhere too.

 

So who in the hell are you hiding it from?

 

True. After back to back 90+ loss seasons I think the players knew they were facing an uphill climb.

[TheLeviathan]

Right - so the fans are savvy enough to know, the players are savvy enough to know, and the front office damn sure knows....so why not just be upfront? All this mass self-deception does is make the inevitable collapse all the more bitter for many.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think there was little else Ryan could say in the offseason and if you literally believed him you are not especially savvy.

 

This is another situation where Ryan would get crushed no matter what he said. He is getting crushed for saying what he actually said and he would have been crushed if he tried to sell a rebuild in a publically funded stadium that has eleventy billion dollars a year in revenue.

 

Of course I knew that the pre season statements were BS. Perhaps you should try actually reading the OP once.

 

My whole point is that there definately was something else he could say.

 

Please tell me what exactly is wrong with saying something like, "The organization is not where we want it to be, and I want to put a WS contender on the field. In order to do that we may have to take a step backwards to take two steps forward. We have a lot of exciting young players that will be coming up over the next couple years, and I really think the fans are going to want to come out and see the emerging talent that will define this team for years to come."

 

Frankly, I dont understand what is wrong with that type of honesty. They could do the whole, "get to know em" campaign all over again, and I really think it would go over a whole lot better than just flat out lying to the customer, which I think is very distasteful.

I'm simply not buying this 'there is nothing else he can say' theory.

[drjim]

Of course I knew that the pre season statements

were BS. Perhaps you should try actually reading the OP once.

 

My whole point is that there definately was something else he could say.

 

Please tell me what exactly is wrong with saying something like, "The organization is not where we want it to be, and I want to put a WS contender on the field. In order to do that we may have to take a step backwards to take two steps forward. We have a lot of exciting young players that will be coming up over the next couple years, and I really think the fans are going to want to come out and see the emerging talent that will define this team for years to come."

 

Frankly, I dont understand what is wrong with that type of honesty. They could do the whole, "get to know em" campaign all over again, and I really think it would go over a whole lot better than just flat out lying to the customer, which I think is very distasteful.

I'm simply not buying this 'there is nothing else he can say' theory.

 

I never said he couldn't say something else. I'm just saying no matter what he said he was going to get crushed.

[Mr. Brooks]

I never said he couldn't say something else. I'm just saying no matter what he said he was going to get crushed.

 

Why would he crushed for saying something to the effect of what I posted above? I disagree big time, I think he would actually score some points for the honesty.

[notoriousgod71]

Rangers claimed OF Joe Benson off waivers from the Twins

 

Brilliant move! JR said he wanted Arcia to play every day and now he can.... in Rochester.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Because it wasn't hard to see that much of that 18-17 record was accomplished with smoke and mirrors. I was hopeful that the Twins would be a 75 win team but it was hard to envision them staying around .500 with Worley and Pelfrey stinking up the joint.

 

And once the magical pixie dust wore off Correia and the bullpen, we saw the true ugliness of this team.

Well, the bullpen is just good. Correia was always going to regress to the mean, but we have replacement options (Deduno, Walters, Gibson) that would have kept our starting staff ducktaped together. IF the hitters had progressed and performed as anticipated we could have run at .500 for the year.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, the bullpen is just good. Correia was always going to regress to the mean, but we have replacement options (Deduno, Walters, Gibson) that would have kept our starting staff ducktaped together. IF the hitters had progressed and performed as anticipated we could have run at .500 for the year.

 

Can we please stop pretending that we have '27 Yankees talent in our lineup?

Outside of maybe Doumit, who is really hitting much worse than could have been reasonably expected?

Morneau is not the same player as pre concussion, his OPS is nearly identical to last year, right about what should have been expected.

Given Willingham's age, and the fact he is coming off a career year, his OPS is pretty darn close to where it should have been expected to be. Sorry to say he wasnt going to repeat 2012.

Mauer is right in line with his career norms.

The entire rest of the lineup is basically guys with not enough experience or track record to have any expectation of coming into the year other than 'TBD'.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Can we please stop pretending that we have '27 Yankees talent in our lineup?

Outside of maybe Doumit, who is really hitting much worse than could have been reasonably expected?

Morneau is not the same player as pre concussion, his OPS is nearly identical to last year, right about what should have been expected.

Given Willingham's age, and the fact he is coming off a career year, his OPS is pretty darn close to where it should have been expected to be. Sorry to say he wasnt going to repeat 2012.

Mauer is right in line with his career norms.

The entire rest of the lineup is basically guys with not enough experience or track record to have any expectation of coming into the year other than 'TBD'.

 

In what way does '27 Yankees equate to .500 in an average division? No one is claiming we are an offensive powerhouse, simply that it was reasonable to expect better offensive numbers from a variety of guys in our lineup. Not All-Star numbers, just a little better than we have gotten so far. Slightly better than middle of the pack offense + below average starters + above average bullpen = .500 baseball.

[Highabove]

You can fill up a Barn with all the Straw that's blowing around.

[old nurse]

You can fill up a Barn with all the Straw that's blowing around.

To continue a farm theme, here is an awful lot of stuff that is best used as fertilizer floating here too.

[Mr. Brooks]

In what way does '27 Yankees equate to .500 in an average division? No one is claiming we are an offensive powerhouse, simply that it was reasonable to expect better offensive numbers from a variety of guys in our lineup. Not All-Star numbers, just a little better than we have gotten so far. Slightly better than middle of the pack offense + below average starters + above average bullpen = .500 baseball.

 

1) Because we would need the '27 Yankees lineup just to finish at .500 with this horrible pitching rotation. Our starting pitchers literally turn every hitter they face into Joe Mauer. (The stat comparison is posted by someone in another thread.)

 

2) Again, outside of maybe Doumit, name these hitters who should have been expected to hit better than they have? I don't think you can include any of the young guys (Hicks, Parm, Plouffe, Dozier, Florimon, etc.), because the expectation from all of them should have been no more than 'TBD', based on their lack of experience and track record.

 

3) To call our starting pitching "below average" is a slap in the face to the term "below average". If our starting staff is just "below average", then I'd like to know your definition of what a terrible starting staff would be.

[Vespasian]

There is nothing wrong with being a casual fan. If you stick around and read a little bit you can pick up a lot of knowledge pretty quickly. Thats how many of us learned more about the game. Also, many of us have been on internet forums for 10+ years now (some, the same message boards for that long). A lot of inside jokes and snark. Don't be afraid to post, state opinions ect., it only makes it easier to teach when someone's position is known. Have fun. Great site... meh, I'd call it good... lol.

 

Thanks for the warm welcome. I appreciate it. I guess I would sum up my position by stating that even those of us who loosely follow the team and enjoy the game, but maybe aren't tuning in for every inning of every game are still smart enough to know when we are being asked to pay major league prices to watch a AAA rotation. And for the front office to say at the beginning of the season that they expected this team to be competitive is to insult our intelligence. I saw someone in another thread - I think it was jokin - compare Joe Mauer's stat line vs. the league against our starting five, and the undeniable conclusion was that our starting five turns the entire league into Joe Mauer. This was an astonishing piece of evidence. It took me a minute to wrap my mind around it. But now that I think about it I guess I'm not surprised.

[Joe A. Preusser]

1) Because we would need the '27 Yankees lineup just to finish at .500 with this horrible pitching rotation. Our starting pitchers literally turn every hitter they face into Joe Mauer. (The stat comparison is posted by someone in another thread.)

 

2) Again, outside of maybe Doumit, name these hitters who should have been expected to hit better than they have? I don't think you can include any of the young guys (Hicks, Parm, Plouffe, Dozier, Florimon, etc.), because the expectation from all of them should have been no more than 'TBD', based on their lack of experience and track record.

 

3) To call our starting pitching "below average" is a slap in the face to the term "below average". If our starting staff is just "below average", then I'd like to know your definition of what a terrible starting staff would be.

 

1) Disagree. First, I already spoke about options in AAA that were upgrades over what we threw out there in the first quarter of the season. Second, I don't care what the stat lines say, raw numbers don't make a Joe Mauer, so let's forget the fallacy that our starters turn everyone into an All-Star hitter. It's much more likely upon breakdown that we are just letting the good hitters do that much better against us and still keeping the scrubs in check. 2) Yes, Parm, Plouffe, Dozier and of course Hicks are all on the list. Just because they're green doesn't mean they don't have reasonable expectations. Add in Hammer's struggles and Morneau's power issues and there is a significant case here. 3) Fine, call them junk, call them garbage, call them whatever makes you feel better. The point is that with the pitchers we have on the major league roster and in AAA, expected hitting which we didn't get, and a great bullpen we should have played .500 ball this year (and we still can). How can you even argue against this? .500 ball isn't success, it's mediocrity. No one is claiming a rousing franchise success, only what has been/could have been a nice step towards the future and a much better product to watch on the field than the last two years.

[Mr. Brooks]

1) Disagree. First, I already spoke about options in AAA that were upgrades over what we threw out there in the first quarter of the season. Second, I don't care what the stat lines say, raw numbers don't make a Joe Mauer, so let's forget the fallacy that our starters turn everyone into an All-Star hitter. It's much more likely upon breakdown that we are just letting the good hitters do that much better against us and still keeping the scrubs in check. 2) Yes, Parm, Plouffe, Dozier and of course Hicks are all on the list. Just because they're green doesn't mean they don't have reasonable expectations. Add in Hammer's struggles and Morneau's power issues and there is a significant case here. 3) Fine, call them junk, call them garbage, call them whatever makes you feel better. The point is that with the pitchers we have on the major league roster and in AAA, expected hitting which we didn't get, and a great bullpen we should have played .500 ball this year (and we still can). How can you even argue against this? .500 ball isn't success, it's mediocrity. No one is claiming a rousing franchise success, only what has been/could have been a nice step towards the future and a much better product to watch on the field than the last two years.

 

As the great Bill Parcells once said, you are what your record says you are.

Period.

You can make all the excuses you want. At the end of a 162 games, your record is going to be what it should be.

So, I guess we will revisit this in 4 months and see how we look then.

[70charger]

As the great Bill Parcells once said, you are what your record says you are.

Period.

You can make all the excuses you want. At the end of a 162 games, your record is going to be what it should be.

So, I guess we will revisit this in 4 months and see how we look then.

 

You're arguing hindsight when he was arguing pre-season expectations. This really isn't that hard to figure out. You can do it. Try.

[Mr. Brooks]

You're arguing hindsight when he was arguing pre-season expectations. This really isn't that hard to figure out. You can do it. Try.

 

No. What I am arguing is that if you looked at this roster before the season and thought it was a .500 club, you are not very good at evaluating your own talent, and should be fired.

What I'm saying is this club doesn't have .500 talent, because if it did, it would be a .500 ballclub.

Maybe, I'll be wrong, and we finish .500, but I don't think we will. And if we don't finish .500, it's because we are not .500 talent, not because we got unlucky, or whatever he is trying to argue.

[Guest USAFChief]

1) Disagree. First, I already spoke about options in AAA that were upgrades over what we threw out there in the first quarter of the season. .

If these guys in AAA are "upgrades" over what we threw out there to start the season, why weren't they in the major leagues at the start of the season?