Official Scoring Questions Thread

[Oldgoat_MN]

Stew - This thread is really great. Thank you!

[SweetOne69]

I have a question regarding 2 similar plays.

 

Friday Plouffe was credited with an error for his wild throw while fielding a bunt bare handed, which I believe was the correct call.

 

On the other hand, a similar play with Burton on Monday was ruled a hit. The only difference was that Burton's throw only pulled Morneau off of the bag instead of missing completely.

[stewthornley]

Stew - This thread is really great. Thank you!

From an old fart to an old goat, thanks for the nice words.

[stewthornley]

I have a question regarding 2 similar plays.

 

Friday Plouffe was credited with an error for his wild throw while fielding a bunt bare handed, which I believe was the correct call.

 

On the other hand, a similar play with Burton on Monday was ruled a hit. The only difference was that Burton's throw only pulled Morneau off of the bag instead of missing completely.

 

The error on Plouffe was for the additional advancement of the runner only. Machado got a hit, and there would have been no error had he not gotten to second. Burton could have received an error - judgment call and the scorer decided it was beyond ordinary effort - but there was no additional advancement.

[stewthornley]

Thank you for giving Plouffe an error.

Might have looked like an easy decision, but the play got sent in to MLB for review. I'm waiting to hear if it gets overturned - that's the context with which we get to make these calls.

[nicksaviking]

Stew, I thought I saw that you were put on a commitee by the commisioners office to straighten out the wayward officiating that has suddenly plagued the game. Is this correct, or am I mistaken? I could have sworn I saw somthing about this during some broadcast but I can't find any info online?

[stewthornley]

Stew, I thought I saw that you were put on a commitee by the commisioners office to straighten out the wayward officiating that has suddenly plagued the game. Is this correct, or am I mistaken? I could have sworn I saw somthing about this during some broadcast but I can't find any info online?

I was put on the three-member official scoring advisory committee, but it doesn't deal with appeals. We're kind of a resource for the other scorers to bounce things off, we're involved in the creation of a manual/casebook for scorers, we help to organize and lead the annual meeting we have. However, we're still subject to the same challenges as anyone else. Teams and players can appeal scoring decisions, and MLB makes the final decision on whether to uphold the scorers' decision or overturn it. This process has been in place for a while, but in the last collective bargaining agreement, players got the right to submit appeals on their own--without team approval. The players most concerned are those who go to arbitration (typically 3-to-6 year players, since free agency is an option for them although some of the veterans still use arbitration). As it was explained to us, the players were concerned about pressure teams were putting on their scorers. I interpreted that in a positive way to mean that players thought the scorers were qualified and wanted them left alone to do their jobs--as long as the players still had some recourse if they didn't like a call. This system is supposed to take the teams out of it, at least in terms of pressuring scorers. And it has resulted in a lot more plays being submitted for review.

 

So I guess that means the scoring is no more wayward than it has been in the past.

 

This might come across as too smarmy, but I hope it gives a look at the scrutiny we face. I know this job was a lot easier when I was an arm-chair official scorer. From the hot seat it's different. I can't just call errors all day long from an arm chair like I used to. Of course, we hear about it if we go too light and call a hit. My experience, including of when I was in the arm chair, is that the arm-chair scorers want more errors. Doing it from the hot seat requires more refinement. Thanks.

[snepp]

+1 like for the use of 'smarmy.'

[nicksaviking]

Well regardless of my limited initial understanding of the role, congrats. Obviously your selection shows that your efforts are recognized leaguewide.

 

Our Twins DO have upper echelon talent within the orgainzation!

[stewthornley]

+1 like for the use of 'smarmy.'

 

How many points to a get for gnarly?

[snepp]

How many points to a get for gnarly?

 

Many are convinced that the 80's never actually happened, so I have to go with none.

[nicksaviking]

Many are convinced that the 80's never actually happened, so I have to go with none.

 

Yet your avatar provides compelling evidence.

[snepp]

Yet your avatar provides compelling evidence.

 

That's Delmonatello.

 

[notoriousgod71]

The Hicks play today?

[notoriousgod71]

The Hicks play today?

 

Ciriaco?

[stewthornley]

The Hicks play today?

Nava's long single in the fifth? Wasn't my game today, but try calling that an error for real and see what kind of reaction you get. I'd love to witness it. (Same with Pedroia's homer off the heel of Willingham's glove in the ninth; could have been called a four-base error, but not by me.) Both times the guys are descending on a fence. I called an error on Span two years ago when he didn't hold onto a drive. He was farther away from the fence than either Hicks or Willingham was. The play got sent in, and the call was overturned to a hit. The committee that changed it said they thought Span was having to deal with the fence coming up on him.

[notoriousgod71]

Freeman boots a ball and then throws it away. Error overturned to a hit.

[GCTF]

Freeman boots a ball and then throws it away. Error overturned to a hit.

 

Between innings Freeman went to the scorekeepers area with a bat and suggested that it be changed. Happens all the time. Hope this has been enlightening.

[ThePuck]

anybody see the play by Brendan Ryan yesterday...he went far to his left, the ball took a weird bounce, while in stride he fielded it between his legs, spun and fired to first. Bad throw. Guy at first was safe, didn't advance, and he was charged an error. Horsecarp!

 

Edit: Either MLB network sportscaster got it wrong and he wasn't charged an error, or he was initially charged an error and MLB fixed that mistake real quick-like.

[stewthornley]

5-29 game? Who was the batter?

[SweetOne69]

I have a question about Saturday's (06-15) game against the Tigers.

 

Situation:

 

Cabrera on 2B, Fielder hits a grounder to Florimon (SS), Cabrera holds and Florimon throws the ball into the dugout. Fielder is awarded 2B and Cabrera is given Home Plate.

 

Why was Cabrera given 2 bases?

[greengoblinrulz]

I have a question about Saturday's (06-15) game against the Tigers.

 

Situation:

 

Cabrera on 2B, Fielder hits a grounder to Florimon (SS), Cabrera holds and Florimon throws the ball into the dugout. Fielder is awarded 2B and Cabrera is given Home Plate.

 

Why was Cabrera given 2 bases?

thats not an official scorers decision but an umpiring one

[Guest USAFChief]

thats not an official scorers decision but an umpiring one

...governed by MLB rule 7.05 (g). to wit:

 

"Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, (may)

advance—Two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into thestands"

 

MLB rules can be found at:

 

Official Rules | MLB.com: Official info

[SweetOne69]

thats not an official scorers decision but an umpiring one

 

I'm aware of that

[SweetOne69]

...governed by MLB rule 7.05 (g). to wit:

 

"Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, (may)

advance—Two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into thestands"

 

MLB rules can be found at:

 

Official Rules | MLB.com: Official info

 

Since Fielder hadn't reached 1st at the time of the wild throw by Florimon, in actuality he was awarded 2 bases as well. So both players were awarded 2 bases for Florimon's wild throw.

 

That makes sense now, Thanks

[notoriousgod71]

Dozier drops a looping pop up (even though it was ruled a catch). Stubbs tags and comes home. There's no way an error shouldn't be called on that. Stubbs wouldn't even think of coming home if Dozier doesn't let the ball drop.

[notoriousgod71]

Arcia hits a ground ball to second base. The ball bounces of Dietrich's glove as he moves to his left. Base hit. Ugh...

[jay]

9/11 vs A's:

Bases loaded, Lowrie hits a ball down the first base line that is initially ruled a foul (and dead) ball. Upon protest, umpires confer and award him second base with two runners scoring.

 

How is this scored? On what basis do the umpires decide which bases to award? Can a dead ball really be overturned? If so, Cuzzi??

[stewthornley]

9/11 vs A's:

Bases loaded, Lowrie hits a ball down the first base line that is initially ruled a foul (and dead) ball. Upon protest, umpires confer and award him second base with two runners scoring.

 

How is this scored? On what basis do the umpires decide which bases to award? Can a dead ball really be overturned? If so, Cuzzi??

 

Easy scoring call - double and two RBIs. The play was handled properly by the umpires. Bill Miller made the call while jumping out of the way of the ball, and he asked for help. The umpire manual (case book) covers this, and Miller was wise to ask for help in that situation. (As for Cuzzi, who by the way hardly cost the Twins the 2009 playoffs, he didn't ask for help--nor did Jim Joyce in the Galarraga game.) The umpires will decide on where the runners would have ended up, just as they do if there is fan interference. And this could become more common next year when replay is expanded. It's possible that with replay umpires will be less likely to make their calls and will make the call that keeps the ball in play--saving them from having to place runners. But just wait until that happens and someone gets hurt on a play that's nullified by review. That will be interesting.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Stew and the TD crew. Thank you so much! Most enlightening!