Is Defense Part of the Twins’ Problem?

[chpettit19]

8 minutes ago, old nurse said:

Smalley plaid in the 70s and 80s. Different time

I understand. My point is that the metrics we're talking about now that are measuring current players don't need to take into account positioning since other metrics are already positioning players in optimal spots. You said "There is what the statistics do not measure. That is the limitation of these statistics." And I'm saying it's not a limitation.

[Schmoeman5]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:50 AM, old nurse said:

Your logic here is why I am continually amazed by comments sections. A person who says that statistics can be manipulated has their statement manipulated to mean what they want

Statistics can be manipulated easily. Just by changing the variables or by changing the value + or - of a variable. 

[Schmoeman5]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:12 PM, RpR said:

Bundy pitched to Sanchez yesterday; there is zero way a catcher can make a pitcher good or bad..

Tell that to Steve Carlton 

[TheLeviathan]

9 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

DRS and UZR have Urshela right at average with OAA a tick below. I'll cede that it's possible he's undervalued a little but this season isn't a a stark departure from his career numbers.

Correa is another story. I think he's better than the numbers he has posted this year, but these same metrics loved him while he ascended towards the top of the SS mountain. 

I certainly am not defending the Bremergasms about Urshela.  It's just number likes that which solidify my skepticism on these metrics.  I haven't been won over by them in any kind of sample smaller than a full season.

[DTSB]

On 6/25/2022 at 8:43 AM, Game7-91 said:

Defense is 1 part athleticism and 2 parts commitment/repetition.

Polanco and Arraez initiated this FO trend of creating interchangeable infield parts. Polancos injuries necessitated a permanent shift to 2b, he has improved since. Arraez is treated like a positional wandering nomad, and the team suffers. His offensive contributions are mitigated by his defense. But its not all on him. 

Whats worrying is the number of guys being developed in the same way. Is Kiriloff a 1b or OF? If 1b, play him there. Regularly. Miranda? Ditto. Arraez? Ditto. Lewis...SS, CF, corner? Really? After how many years , still cant figure out where he plays? Martin? What are they doing with some of the other minor league infielders featured on this site? Advancing high level prospects to MLB roster and deploying them like 26th man utility players? IMHO it is not only depressing wins now, but if our team somehow navigates this god-awful division to make a playoff series, will most certainly cost runs and games when the pressure is really on. 

It is clearly an organizational philosophy, but its the wrong one, and is detrimental to individual player development and the actual MLB product. Identify their best positions, give them rep's in MiLB, let them develop. 

Unless MlB wants to do something really radical, and roster for designated defense and offense....but thats for another discussion?

I would agree. I think you need to hold the manager and coaches partially responsible. How does Correa go from a platinum glove to negative OAA?  I’ve noticed sloppy play all season (both base running and with defense). Baseball is more than just pitching and hitting and they need to practice that too. (Especially if you are going to play with 5 “utility guys” on the field at the same time) 

[RpR]

2 hours ago, DTSB said:

I would agree. I think you need to hold the manager and coaches partially responsible. How does Correa go from a platinum glove to negative OAA?  I’ve noticed sloppy play all season (both base running and with defense). Baseball is more than just pitching and hitting and they need to practice that too. (Especially if you are going to play with 5 “utility guys” on the field at the same time) 

Your first sentence covers it well, Correa is dealing with the defense alignment that all the coaches stick him with, they may not be forms that he flourished with in the past.

I still compare Correa to Simmons and Simmons range last year was HUGE, perhaps Correa's range is not as large and they are sticking him where he is most uncomfortable handi-capping his talent.

Without him the Twins would be in a world of hurt.

[Schmoeman5]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:58 PM, Doctor Gast said:

Do you have any idea what you you're talking about?

Nope

[Schmoeman5]

Why is it such an issue that Correas defensive measures are down. Not having bregman to his right or altuve to his left accounts for the range factor.  Are Keplers numbers down when Buxtons not in CF? I'll bet they are.