What was Gardy talking about/referring to?

[ThePuck]

The issue this time is that you have a guy without any dominant stuff, with a one run lead, who has only completed three games ever in his career and, regardless of the PR stuff, is NOT an innings eater. It just didn't make much sense to me to have him even go out for the 8th with all those combined factors.

 

Correia, last year, had his best year in three years. He NEVER pitched more than 7 innings last year and he only pitched 7 innings 3 times. He only pitched more than 6 innings 5 times.

 

Burton is our 8th inning guy. He should have been ready to start the inning and let him go do his thing. If he blows it, he blows it, but we've been told the 8th inning is his and there's little sense in letting Correia go back out there in that situation.

 

Having said that, while I don't think it's unheard of to expect a shutout every once in awhile..to win the occasional 1-0, 2-0 game...but, it's true, the offense also didn't step up. That's not on Gardy.

[Mike Sixel]

Of course I've seen starters pulled while they still look effective. I've also seen sacrifice bunts in the third inning.....

[jokin]

The issue this time is that you have a guy without any dominant stuff, with a one run lead, who has only completed three games ever in his career and, regardless of the PR stuff, is NOT an innings eater. It just didn't make much sense to me to have him even go out for the 8th with all those combined factors.

 

Correia, last year, had his best year in three years. He NEVER pitched more than 7 innings last year and he only pitched 7 innings 3 times. He only pitched more than 6 innings 5 times.

 

Burton is our 8th inning guy. He should have been ready to start the inning and let him go do his thing. If he blows it, he blows it, but we've been told the 8th inning is his and there's little sense in letting Correia go back out there in that situation.

 

Having said that, while I don't think it's unheard of to expect a shutout every once in awhile..to win the occasional 1-0, 2-0 game...but, it's true, the offense also didn't step up. That's not on Gardy.

 

Yup. As I stated yesterday, with the way he was going and the pitch count being what it was, I would have probably sent him out to start the 8th. But for heavens sake, how do Gardy and Andy not have a better feel for what Correia has been as a pitcher over his career? And such a delayed reaction to obvious laboring, like they thought the score was 5-0, not 1-0.

[Shane Wahl]

Gardenhire doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Also, we know Correia is not actually a good pitcher. There is zero reason to let him try to get out of the 8th. Burton should have been brought in to start the inning. You get 7 innings like that out of a mediocre pitcher . . . you don't test fate.

[LewFordLives]

Correia's pitch count should have had little influence on the decision. He'd been through the KC lineup three times, sooner or later they were going to get to him. Combine that with his bad spring and the fact that Burton and Perkins have been solid in the pen so far, and there's no way he should have come out to pitch the 8th. I've tended to Gardenhire the benefit of the doubt in the past, but it seems like he's always pulling the wrong levers. Maybe he's just unlucky.

[Guest USAFChief]

I said in the game thread yesterday, and still feel: I had no problem with sending KC out for the 8th. I would have had at least one reliever ready though, and IMO he should have had both a RH and LH up in the pen, ready to come in if Correia gives up any baserunners.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact I'm sort of defending Gardy, therefore, I'm not sure I can continue to make cogent arguements in this thread....

[ashbury]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact I'm sort of defending Gardy, therefore, I'm not sure I can continue to make cogent arguements in this thread....

 

"Continue"?

/ Just funnin', my brother.

[jay]

I said in the game thread yesterday, and still feel: I had no problem with sending KC out for the 8th. I would have had at least one reliever ready though, and IMO he should have had both a RH and LH up in the pen, ready to come in if Correia gives up any baserunners.

 

I agree completely. I could swear you were just arguing against this approach in the other thread related to the Orioles game?

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

Point is, you want your players to feel good about their contributions. Corriea had it in spades. At most you let him pitch into the 8th until a runner gets on. At that point, the pitcher CANNOT lose the game. The definition of success for a starting pitcher. Gardy fell in love with the idea of Correia being unbeatable in this game. His fantasy likely cost the Twins the game.

 

This is managing 101--I saw it here in MD with the Earl and Palmer. If you are winning a game in the 8th inning--your starter CANNOT lose the game. First baserunner on--you pull the starter.

 

I am a Gardy fan. But this was a HUGE Blown game by Gardy.

[jokin]

I said in the game thread yesterday, and still feel: I had no problem with sending KC out for the 8th. I would have had at least one reliever ready though, and IMO he should have had both a RH and LH up in the pen, ready to come in if Correia gives up any baserunners.

 

Yup.

 

Has it come to the point with Burton's alleged fragility that perhaps Gardy was gambling on trying to let Jarrod skip a day of warming up and possibly having to make an appearance in the 8th?

[Guest USAFChief]

I agree completely. I could swear you were just arguing against this approach in the other thread related to the Orioles game?

How so? My point in the other thread was Perkins can't pitch every time there's a high leverage inning, and can't be warmed up and ready every time there's a need past the 5th inning of every game. How is that relevant to having a reliever (or two) ready in the 8th inning of a 1-0 game in which your starter is still in?

[Riverbrian]

I said in the game thread yesterday, and still feel: I had no problem with sending KC out for the 8th. I would have had at least one reliever ready though, and IMO he should have had both a RH and LH up in the pen, ready to come in if Correia gives up any baserunners.

 

I agree 100 Percent... Correia starting the 8th is not the issue in my mind. I would have told Correia to go get him in the 8th.

 

The Bullpen being late warming up is the issue and I won't hang Gardy for it.

 

Not directed at anyone in particular but if Gardy would have brought Burton in to start the 8th and Burton went on to give up 3 runs. Is it possible that we would have some TD Posters asking how Gardy could have pulled a guy cruising thru 7 at 84 pitches?

 

Not sure... but I think that someone(s) would have. Matter of Fact... I would have complained about that.

[ThePuck]

I agree 100 Percent... Correia starting the 8th is not the issue in my mind. I would have told Correia to go get him in the 8th.

 

The Bullpen being late warming up is the issue and I won't hang Gardy for it.

 

Not directed at anyone in particular but if Gardy would have brought Burton in to start the 8th and Burton went on to give up 3 runs. Is it possible that we would have some TD Posters asking how Gardy could have pulled a guy cruising thru 7 at 84 pitches?

 

Not sure... but I think that someone(s) would have. Matter of Fact... I would have complained about that.

 

The issue this time is that you have a guy without any dominant stuff, with a one run lead, who has only completed three games ever in his career and, regardless of the PR stuff, is NOT an innings eater. It just didn't make much sense to me to have him even go out for the 8th with all those combined factors.

 

Correia, last year, had his best year in three years. He NEVER pitched more than 7 innings last year and he only pitched 7 innings 3 times. He only pitched more than 6 innings 5 times.

 

Burton is our 8th inning guy. He should have been ready to start the inning and let him go do his thing. If he blows it, he blows it, but we've been told the 8th inning is his and there's little sense in letting Correia go back out there in that situation.

 

Having said that, while I don't think it's unheard of to expect a shutout every once in awhile..to win the occasional 1-0, 2-0 game...but, it's true, the offense also didn't step up. That's not on Gardy.

 

Oh, and why exactly don't you put the blame on Gardy for the bullpen warming up late? He tells the pitching coach to call down to the pen to get them warming up. It's directly on his shoulders. What kind of stuff DO you put on Gardy exactly? Cause that is directly his responsibility and yet he's guiltless?

[Willihammer]

Another postgame thought from Gardy:

 

“That’s his ballgame. To let somebody else come in and give up his run is really not good.

 

Correia's dazzling outing outdone by Royals' Santana | StarTribune.com

 

Its a long season, I know, to be second guessing so many of Gardy's move already. But, come on, we can't bring in a reliever if he will inherit someoen else's baserunner? Is that a policy now?

[Riverbrian]

The issue this time is that you have a guy without any dominant stuff, with a one run lead, who has only completed three games ever in his career and, regardless of the PR stuff, is NOT an innings eater. It just didn't make much sense to me to have him even go out for the 8th with all those combined factors.

 

Correia, last year, had his best year in three years. He NEVER pitched more than 7 innings last year and he only pitched 7 innings 3 times. He only pitched more than 6 innings 5 times.

 

Burton is our 8th inning guy. He should have been ready to start the inning and let him go do his thing. If he blows it, he blows it, but we've been told the 8th inning is his and there's little sense in letting Correia go back out there in that situation.

 

Having said that, while I don't think it's unheard of to expect a shutout every once in awhile..to win the occasional 1-0, 2-0 game...but, it's true, the offense also didn't step up. That's not on Gardy.

 

Oh, and why exactly don't you put the blame on Gardy for the bullpen warming up late? He tells the pitching coach to call down to the pen to get them warming up. It's directly on his shoulders. What kind of stuff DO you put on Gardy exactly? Cause that is directly his responsibility and yet he's guiltless?

 

The National league game is a little different... That pitchers spot in the order influences things. Besides... Gardy needs to know if his new pitcher hits a wall or not. This is how you find out. Two starts into 2013 and 7 innings both times and good performances to boot.

 

He was cruisin yesterday.

 

As for why I don't blame Gardy... I do blame Gardy... I'm just not going to hang him for it.

 

Why? Because sometimes I've been late taking the Garbage out and the truck goes by and I have to hold that Garbage until next week. It doesn't mean I'm not a good garbage putter outer. Just missed that one.

[ashbury]

I agree 100 Percent... Correia starting the 8th is not the issue in my mind. I would have told Correia to go get him in the 8th.

 

The Bullpen being late warming up is the issue and I won't hang Gardy for it.

 

Not directed at anyone in particular but if Gardy would have brought Burton in to start the 8th and Burton went on to give up 3 runs. Is it possible that we would have some TD Posters asking how Gardy could have pulled a guy cruising thru 7 at 84 pitches?

 

But that's because it's not a choice between hanging KC out to dry in the 8th, versus putting in the reliever. IMO both those options can be criticized without it being second guessing.

 

That's because it's almost standard practice to do what has already been suggested:

• Get Burton and Duensing up and warming up while the Twins are batting (if Duensing is not available that day, pick your best option for getting lefties out, maybe that's Burton anyway);
  
• Send Correia out there and tell him "go get 'em";
  
• At the first baserunner, send in the correct-handed reliever; go from there.
  

This is not rocket surgery - managers do it all the time. And it gives you the chance at the better of both worlds: if your mediocre starter is having one of the games of his life, he has a chance to finish his complete game shutout if he gives up no hits in the 8th (and maybe his team scores a few in the 9th to give him a better cushion for when he goes out for the bottom of that inning), and if his run of luck is up, it costs you only a baserunner (hopefully not a home run).

 

I'm not saying I thought this through, as I watched the game unfold. But it's what Gardy is paid to have figured out ahead of time. And his explanations afterward continue to sound to me like a rationalization for something else going on under the surface.

[TheLeviathan]

But, come on, we can't bring in a reliever if he will inherit someoen else's baserunner? Is that a policy now?

 

Yeah, "his run" bothers me. How about no run instead?

[diehardtwinsfan]

Ok, lets stay on topic though.

What exactly is in Gardy's pipe, for him to see this pitch as "almost over his head"?

I mean, maybe he just has a VERY liberal definition of the word 'almost'?

 

Juuuuuuuuuuuust a bit out side.