2021 Vikings Season Thread

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

The 2nd paragraph has nothing to do with what you replied to. You truly believe Zimmer is that much of a control freak to not allow a 10 year veteran QB call a timeout? If so, my goodness, we need to fire him immediately. 

Most coaches want to have that control because they have more information and more immediacy to a ref.  I don't think it's a good idea to put multiple different individuals in charge of clock management.  That's a recipe for disaster.

Zimmer should be the one calling timeouts.  Cousins is absolutely right to put that question on his coach.  That's where it belongs.  You don't ask the ST coach why the offense is dink and dunking to Ham.  You ask the person accountable to the issue.  Clock management is squarely on the HC.

We can criticize Cousins without inventing reasons to do so.

[TheLeviathan]

7 minutes ago, RpR said:

HE should know that is illegal and say no, REGARDLESS of what any coach says' this is not pee-wee football with little boys doing as told.

Cousins "knowing" it is illegal is utterly irrelevant to whether or not the guy who actually made the mistake did it or not.  What was he supposed to do?  Telepathically predict Zimmer being a moron, run down the sideline, and restrain him?  Calling a spade a spade....what kind of asinine logic is this?

[TheLeviathan]

17 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I don’t think Cousins has the attributes, to win a Super Bowl. But this team should still be 6-1 with him either way.

This.  Our talent is continuing to put us into positions to win.  Our coaching continues to turn that into losses.  That's really my takeaway at this point.  

That tells me it would be justified to let Spielman stay, but the coaching staff happened under his watch so he takes blame there too.  I'd be accepting to the idea of keeping him, but I'd rather see the whole thing blown up.

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

This.  Our talent is continuing to put us into positions to win.  Our coaching continues to turn that into losses.  That's really my takeaway at this point.  

That tells me it would be justified to let Spielman stay, but the coaching staff happened under his watch so he takes blame there too.  I'd be accepting to the idea of keeping him, but I'd rather see the whole thing blown up.

It is also possible the owners won't let him fire Zimmer, but I don't think that is what is going on, just possible.

[TheLeviathan]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It is also possible the owners won't let him fire Zimmer, but I don't think that is what is going on, just possible.

Agreed.  The Wilfs seem to favor consistency over all else.  I think we've reached the point where that is a negative.

[Vanimal46]

48 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Most coaches want to have that control because they have more information and more immediacy to a ref.  I don't think it's a good idea to put multiple different individuals in charge of clock management.  That's a recipe for disaster.

Zimmer should be the one calling timeouts.  Cousins is absolutely right to put that question on his coach.  That's where it belongs.  You don't ask the ST coach why the offense is dink and dunking to Ham.  You ask the person accountable to the issue.  Clock management is squarely on the HC.

We can criticize Cousins without inventing reasons to do so.

That’s fair. The coach should have ultimate authority over clock management. It bothers me that Kirk Cousins acts like he’s going to get in trouble or needs permission to do it himself. He’s a seasoned pro who should have the recognition to call his own timeouts or audibles if he sees something on the field that he doesn’t like. What’s Zimmer going to do, yell at him? Okay, it’s one time out in the first half. Or a timeout to stop the clock during a potential game winning drive. 

On another note, last night was kind of a blessing. It cements the thought that the Zimmer tenure is over. I read on CBS Sports today that teams are now allowed to interview head coaches during the last 2 weeks of the regular season, with the other team’s permission. Zimmer may not get fired by next Sunday, but it’s imperative to let him go before the season is over so we can start retooling for 2022 and beyond. 

[TheLeviathan]

34 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

That’s fair. The coach should have ultimate authority over clock management. It bothers me that Kirk Cousins acts like he’s going to get in trouble or needs permission to do it himself. He’s a seasoned pro who should have the recognition to call his own timeouts or audibles if he sees something on the field that he doesn’t like. What’s Zimmer going to do, yell at him? Okay, it’s one time out in the first half. Or a timeout to stop the clock during a potential game winning drive. 

On another note, last night was kind of a blessing. It cements the thought that the Zimmer tenure is over. I read on CBS Sports today that teams are now allowed to interview head coaches during the last 2 weeks of the regular season, with the other team’s permission. Zimmer may not get fired by next Sunday, but it’s imperative to let him go before the season is over so we can start retooling for 2022 and beyond. 

I might suggest an alternative. Maybe he's just done falling on his sword for bad coaching decisions.

[LVTwinsfan]

5 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Excuse??

If the head coach says "I call the TOs," you expect the QB to ignore that?

 

Was it also Cousins' fault when the Vikings were penalized for calling consecutive TOs on 3rd and 16 on the Cowboys last drive? 

Sheesh.

You call the time out and have it out with the coach later, what’s he gonna do, bench him?

[cHawk]

Spielman and Zimmer are essentially tied together. It’s pretty obvious.

Zimmer should go. There’s absolutely no question about that. That means Spielman should go too.

[nicksaviking]

11 hours ago, cHawk said:

Spielman and Zimmer are essentially tied together. It’s pretty obvious.

Zimmer should go. There’s absolutely no question about that. That means Spielman should go too.

If we could keep Spielman just for his acumen in drafting skill position players I totally would. But he's been unable to acquire offensive lineman in any fashion, his ability to evaluate draftable QBs is terrible and his determination to stick with and pay aging vets over more talented and cheaper younger players is killing this club. Those things are just too essential.

[Mike Sixel]

Confirmed Hunter is out for the year.....sigh. 

This team is not going to be good......

I wonder how this effects his value? Two straight years not playing half the games (or none)......

[cHawk]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

If we could keep Spielman just for his acumen in drafting skill position players I totally would. But he's been unable to acquire offensive lineman in any fashion, his ability to evaluate draftable QBs is terrible and his determination to stick with and pay aging vets over more talented and cheaper younger players is killing this club. Those things are just too essential.

He’s made a bit of progress in the OL department (Darrisaw, O’Neill, hopefully Wyatt Davis to come).

But yeah, I don’t have any trust in him to draft the QB of the future. I also don’t trust to him to hire the next HC.

[Mike Sixel]

I think Zimmer was worth a shot. I have no issue with the hire. I do have an issue with sticking with him the last two years, when it was clear, imo, that he was not learning and adjusting on offense and special teams.

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Confirmed Hunter is out for the year.....sigh. 

This team is not going to be good......

I wonder how this effects his value? Two straight years not playing half the games (or none)......

 

You would think they still pick up the option and either negotiate a new deal or trade him. He’s the best player on the defense, arguably the best on the team. Regardless, we can’t let him walk for nothing in return. 

[Danchat]

10 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

You would think they still pick up the option and either negotiate a new deal or trade him. He’s the best player on the defense, arguably the best on the team. Regardless, we can’t let him walk for nothing in return. 

I think there are two options with him - A) give him a pricey extension (but not as pricey as it would have been since he's been hurt so much recently) or B] trade him, because teams would absolutely go after him. He wouldn't fetch as high of a price due to injuries, but they'd probably still get a 1st for him. They really can't afford to give Hunter that big bonus since their 2022 cap is so inflated, so it's a nice deal for him or he's gone.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd bring him back.....unless someone makes an insane offer. He's just that good. That said, two season ending injuries is tough. It is like he and Buxton are the same person.....

[nicksaviking]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'd bring him back.....unless someone makes an insane offer. He's just that good. That said, two season ending injuries is tough. It is like he and Buxton are the same person.....

I'm here too; I'd prefer to build with him. But if they do clean house with new coaches and a GM and purge all the expensive veterans maybe you move him and wish him luck. I'm so ready for a fresh start I probably wouldn't hold it against a new regime if they wanted to get some draft capital.

Does Hunter still work if the team decided to go to a 3-4 defense? He's a bit light for a 3-4 end, I assume he's athletic enough to be an edge/hybrid guy?

[Vanimal46]

58 minutes ago, Danchat said:

I think there are two options with him - A) give him a pricey extension (but not as pricey as it would have been since he's been hurt so much recently) or B] trade him, because teams would absolutely go after him. He wouldn't fetch as high of a price due to injuries, but they'd probably still get a 1st for him. They really can't afford to give Hunter that big bonus since their 2022 cap is so inflated, so it's a nice deal for him or he's gone.

Sad, but true. If he still wants Joey Bosa money ($27 million AAV) I’m not sure we do it. We’re going to have to make some tough decisions, starting with finding the new HC and potentially new GM. We have a ton of expiring contracts on defense - Richardson, Griffen, Peterson, Woods, Barr, Vigil, Mack Alexander, Breeland. Our defense could look totally different in less than 12 months. 

[TheLeviathan]

20 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Sad, but true. If he still wants Joey Bosa money ($27 million AAV) I’m not sure we do it. We’re going to have to make some tough decisions, starting with finding the new HC and potentially new GM. We have a ton of expiring contracts on defense - Richardson, Griffen, Peterson, Woods, Barr, Vigil, Mack Alexander, Breeland. Our defense could look totally different in less than 12 months. 

The worst part of this is that a year ago was the time to reset this roster.  Now we've got lots of dumb contracts.

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The worst part of this is that a year ago was the time to reset this roster.  Now we've got lots of dumb contracts.

That's why Spielman needs to go too. I can't see him willingly resetting the roster since his job will continually be on the line.

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

That's why Spielman needs to go too. I can't see him willingly resetting the roster since his job will continually be on the line.

It's the best argument I have against him too.

[cHawk]

9 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

I think Zimmer was worth a shot. I have no issue with the hire. I do have an issue with sticking with him the last two years, when it was clear, imo, that he was not learning and adjusting on offense and special teams.

Apparently the Lions fell for the same trap we did.

[TheLeviathan]

1 hour ago, cHawk said:

Apparently the Lions fell for the same trap we did.

How so?  It's hard for me to judge Dan Campbell because that Detroit roster is hot garbage.

[cHawk]

6 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

How so?  It's hard for me to judge Dan Campbell because that Detroit roster is hot garbage.

I was talking about Matt Patricia (in that they hired a DC to be an HC)

[nicksaviking]

7 hours ago, cHawk said:

I was talking about Matt Patricia (in that they hired a DC to be an HC)

Patricia really seemed like one of those rare coaches where if you fired him after one season, there would have been no second guessing and everyone would have just nodded their head and said, "Yeah, I get it."

[nicksaviking]

So it turns out that Aaron Rodgers is a terrible person after all? Who knew!

If he was not wearing the masks, going to team meetings, traveling with the team and not getting more frequently tested when other unvaccinated QBs around the league were held to these restrictions and inconveniences, Rodgers needs to be suspended for the year and GB needs to lose draft picks. That's no more of an unfair advantage than deflating footballs.

If he also avoided more frequent testing prior to that Cardinals game when the team knew half of the receiving corp had COVID, they should be forced to forfeit that game.

And I'm not saying any of this because I want the Vikings to have a shot at winning the division. Getting the HC and GM replaced are more important to me than winning a crappy division with 7 wins.

[Mike Sixel]

Why was he allowed to not follow protocol? 

It really is harder and harder to root in sports. I don't want to only root for cloth. It makes me feel like I'm rooting for the owner. OTOH, man, teams are made up of good and bad (to me) individuals.......and I'm less and less interested in rooting for (too) many individuals.

[TheLeviathan]

Quarterbacks even get soft treatment from league rules off the field!!!

Seriously though, this season is just such a mess.  It's laughable right now.

[nicksaviking]

It seems so weird how that despite the fact that the NFL is flaunting it's corruptness and laughing in everyone's face while they do these things, it's more popular than ever. I mean, I'm still a sucker so I'm part of the problem.

But now that they're so strongly linked to legalized gambling, congress HAS to step in. Making up the rules as they go along, having the TEAMS be in charge of enforcing those rules, leaking emails to sabotage particular franchises, hiding from reporters to avoid any in depth answers, this is all ripe for betting scandals.

 

[cHawk]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:35 AM, Mike Sixel said:

Confirmed Hunter is out for the year.....sigh. 

This team is not going to be good......

I wonder how this effects his value? Two straight years not playing half the games (or none)......

Probably negatively. *sigh*