Twins Moving on From SP Trade Targets?

[howeda7]

If you're going to do Romo and nothing, you might as well have done nothing or even sold. The rotation/bullpen as currently constructed has almost no chance against the Astros/Yankees in a 7 game series, IMO.

 

This would be very underwhelming, but would there be any point to getting someone like Leake and then shutting down Pineda for a month so he'd be available in the post-season?

[KirbyDome89]

 

Every team falls short on players they are rumored with.  We are just don't follow them as closely.  I seriously doubt this is unique to the Twins, considering a FA can only sign with one team, and a player can only be traded to one team, despite all the rumors.

As fans we won't always agree with FO/ownership rationale in decision making, but it's also an accepted part of fandom IMO. For me the largest irritation is the spin, rather than some of the decisions made. At some level it just becomes insulting. The expectation has never been that they acquire everybody they show interest in; I just don't need the "woe is me," explanation or the goalposts conveniently moved after every failed attempt. 

 

The starting staff could use a boost. They aren't interested in Stroman? Fine, turn your attention to another starter or at the very least load up on bullpen arms. Spare me the "we're pissed," and "the rug was pulled out from under us," tweets from a FO mouthpiece. We all saw what NY paid for Stroman, if the Twins wanted him they could've. Period. 

 

I don't want to hear about how "rough," the market is right now. We knew the bullpen needed help before the season started. The FO elected not to do anything via FA or trades. It was spun as giving them flexibility to decide which way to go (an angle I completely disagreed with) Well here we are, at the trade deadline, with a winning team, and reading articles about "internal answers," to the problems in the pen, and "a lack of reasonably priced arms." This FO isn't the victim of circumstance here, they chose this situation. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

As fans we won't always agree with FO/ownership rationale in decision making, but it's also an accepted part of fandom IMO. For me the largest irritation is the spin, rather than some of the decisions made. At some level it just becomes insulting. The expectation has never been that they acquire everybody they show interest in; I just don't need the "woe is me," explanation or the goalposts conveniently moved after every failed attempt. 

 

The starting staff could use a boost. They aren't interested in Stroman? Fine, turn your attention to another starter or at the very least load up on bullpen arms. Spare me the "we're pissed," and "the rug was pulled out from under us," tweets from a FO mouthpiece. We all saw what NY paid for Stroman, if the Twins wanted him they could've. Period. 

 

I don't want to hear about how "rough," the market is right now. We knew the bullpen needed help before the season started. The FO elected not to do anything via FA or trades. It was spun as giving them flexibility to decide which way to go (an angle I completely disagreed with) Well here we are, at the trade deadline, with a winning team, and reading articles about "internal answers," to the problems in the pen, and "a lack of reasonably priced arms." This FO isn't the victim of circumstance here, they chose this situation. 

All that is fair.  But I don't think it's unique to the Twins.  What do you think the Yankees are saying to their fanbase right now? The same kind of spin. 

 

Where I have an objection is those who want to take "always being in on guys" and not getting them to equate to incompetence.  

 

Literally, like only a handful of competing teams have made deals, and the Twins are one of them (Romo).  The biggest name to go, went a team not even competitive.  I get that we're frustrated, but that frustration probably isn't unique to our fanbase, and probably isn't a direct result of the front office's unique strategy. 

[jkcarew]

This article should garner La Velle the additional year of unfettered clubhouse access he was seeking.

[Darius]

 

This is exactly what I was talking about. And this is the reaction that Lavelle's source was likely looking for by naming Buxton (a reaction they probably weren't getting 4 days ago after the initial report naming Lewis/Kirilloff).

Nailed it. The sad part is it’s working.

[Mr. Brooks]

If you're going to do Romo and nothing, you might as well have done nothing or even sold. The rotation/bullpen as currently constructed has almost no chance against the Astros/Yankees in a 7 game series, IMO.

 

This would be very underwhelming, but would there be any point to getting someone like Leake and then shutting down Pineda for a month so he'd be available in the post-season?

There is no reason to think Pineda won't be available for the postseason.

Innings limits aren't really things you see on a veteran of his age.

[howeda7]

 

There is no reason to think Pineda won't be available for the postseason.
Innings limits aren't really things you see on a veteran of his age.

I thought I read somewhere that they were going to cut him off around 150?

[Mr. Brooks]

I thought I read somewhere that they were going to cut him off around 150?

If so, that's news to me. Haven't heard anything like that before.

 

A quick Google search for Michael Pineda innings limit didn't bring anything of relevance either.

 

If he's healthy, which by all accounts he is, it'd be near impossible to shut him down until September, when rosters expand.

 

You can't send him down, and he can't be IL'd if he's healthy and pitching well. And you obviously can't carry him on the active roster if he isn't going to pitch.

 

Moving him to the bullpen could be an option, but you'd have to do it immediately. Even one more start would make it pretty tough to keep his innings under 150.

[Twodogs]

Ray is definitely pretty intriguing with his high strikeout numbers. However, throwing a lefty against power hitting righties of the Yankees and Astros always feels like a risk, but surprisingly the Yankees are just 16-14 vs lefty starters this year, and have the league's best record vs righites, although the Astros are an amazing 23-7 against left handed starters. The other concerns about Ray are his .776 OPS vs RHB, his high HR rate (1.6 per 9 which is about on track with his career pace when you adjust to the ball being juiced) and high walk rate (4.0 per 9) that might make it hard to go deep in to postseason starts. Still, I think he probably slots in at number 2 in the rotation for now. As for the inning restrictions, I don't expect much if anything for Perez, since he got a total of 102 when you include the minors, and had pitched at least 185 in the 2 years before that. The reason he only got 85 in the majors last is just that he was terrible. With Pineda, however, I think they'll be much more cautious coming down the stretch like we saw at the beginning of the year. If he shows any signs of regression or decreased velocity in September, or we're in a comfortable spot in the standings, they'll probably shorten his starts where he can stay in his groove but not get overused, and they'll have the expanded rosters to pick up his innings.

Left handed starters are so important against teams like the Yankees and Red Sox because of the band boxes they play in. The Right field wall is within spitting distance of home plate, so lefties help in those situations. If Pineda is a FA at the end of the season why would the Twins be worried about innings?? I totally understand when you got a guy who is young or under control for 3 or 4 more years you want to save a dude like that, but we are talking about a guy who might be gone at the end of the year why not use him up? Also the more innings he throws probably helps him in free agency. Like see, ain't nothing wrong with my arm. Etc....

[Shaitan]

 

Not really a fair assessment.   The other two we gave up were picked up and no way the rest of the pen would   have cleared waivers.    Romo should help and I am hoping for Kennedy.    I would also really like Lance Lynn if not too costly.   16 of 22 quality starts is ridick.    Also, although I have been told we won't see Brusdar Graterol this season he just had a clean inning in rehab with reports of constant 100 mph.    He was absolutely on track before going on the IL.    If he stays healthy I can't imagine he won't be up here for the stretch run in September.

 

Did they make any changes to the roster rules involving post-season (along with the deadline change)?

[Twodogs]

I'd like to see Giles and Kennedy. 7 8 and 9 are taken care of with those two and Rogers. Then you have Duffy, May, Harper and Romo for 5th and 6th and someone like Perez who I assume is the 5th starter for in case of extra innings etc... The asking price on Giles can't be that much if the gave up Stroman for nothing?

 

If they for some reason made the WS and they had to play National League then you drop one of Duffy, Harper or May so as to add another bench player??

[KirbyDome89]

 

All that is fair.  But I don't think it's unique to the Twins.  What do you think the Yankees are saying to their fanbase right now? The same kind of spin. 

 

Where I have an objection is those who want to take "always being in on guys" and not getting them to equate to incompetence.  

 

Literally, like only a handful of competing teams have made deals, and the Twins are one of them (Romo).  The biggest name to go, went a team not even competitive.  I get that we're frustrated, but that frustration probably isn't unique to our fanbase, and probably isn't a direct result of the front office's unique strategy. 

The spin certainly isn't, I'm sure every club has a certain amount of local media in their pocket, but I would add that markets like NY tend to hold their clubs more accountable. 

 

Agreed, it's unrealistic to expect them to hit 1.000, especially when we're talking FA. I also think they FO has talked themselves into corners at times and that's added to the fire. 

 

I'd argue the opposite on your last point. The frustration isn't unique, but the situation the Twins are in certainly is. How many first place teams, or potential playoff teams for that matter, could DFA their 8th inning set up man, and watch him go unclaimed by the rest of the league just before the deadline? In that regard I don't think it's accurate to use other teams as the measuring stick for the deadline activity of the Twins. Their current situation is a direct result of the FO's bullpen strategy. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'd argue the opposite on your last point. The frustration isn't unique, but the situation the Twins are in certainly is. How many first place teams, or potential playoff teams for that matter, could DFA their 8th inning set up man, and watch him go unclaimed by the rest of the league just before the deadline? In that regard I don't think it's accurate to use other teams as the measuring stick for the deadline activity of the Twins. Their current situation is a direct result of the FO's bullpen strategy. 

Look, I agree on this last point, but that's different from evaluating how they approach the trade deadline.  They clearly boxed themselves in on their failure to acquire more bullpen help in the offseason.  And that's inexcusable. 

[jdoffing11]

 

Left handed starters are so important against teams like the Yankees and Red Sox because of the band boxes they play in. The Right field wall is within spitting distance of home plate, so lefties help in those situations. If Pineda is a FA at the end of the season why would the Twins be worried about innings?? I totally understand when you got a guy who is young or under control for 3 or 4 more years you want to save a dude like that, but we are talking about a guy who might be gone at the end of the year why not use him up? Also the more innings he throws probably helps him in free agency. Like see, ain't nothing wrong with my arm. Etc....

That is true, probably partly why the Yankees are 16-14 vs lefties. I think we'll be cautious about innings with Pineda because he missed all of last year and hasn't ever thrown 180 in one season. As we would want with all of our starters, we'll want to make sure he's fresh and ready for the playoffs, because if he's overused after taking a year off he could lose velocity, and right now you could argue he's been our second best pitcher for the last month or so.