Mauer/Sano: Double Standard on Strength/Conditioning?

[Squirrel]

 

I think that the over riding point in all of this is that Joe Mauer had free reign to do whatever he pleased in all facets of the game including, but not limited to, off season conditioning. A bubble was constructed around him and he was untouchable in all , repeat, all aspects of his employment as a Minnesota Twin. That included his hitting approach, when to play and when not to play or dh,and many other travel and off the field perks which I am sure have not been revealed.

No ... that isn't the overriding point ... the title specifically says there is a double standard. I want to talk about that double standard and identify what that is. We've already had many, many, many threads dedicated to both players and what they have or have not done in their off-season conditioning plans, whether we want to defend or criticize, there has been a difference in how the team has approached both players. That's the double standard ... let's talk about that instead of rehashing the same ol, same ol criticize/defend threads about what the players did/didn't do and talk about how the team's approach is different. This isn't about Joe Mauer and his plan and this isn't about Sano and his plan. This is about the FO and how they have approached each player and why they have approached their off-season in such drastically different ways. Why do you suppose Mauer was given such a bubble while Sano isn't getting the same? Could it be ... dare I say it ... that one is the nice, white boy with means from a nice private school and 'local hero' ... and the other, well, isn't? The purpose of this thread according to the title and to the OP, is to point out there's a double standard. But no one is talking about it. All they are talking about is what Mauer or Sano has or hasn't done and not what the team is doing or didn't do about it. Don't you wonder why one was treated with kid gloves while the other is being so scrutinized? Maybe it's as simple as the FO learned a lesson with how they treated Joe so they are now altering their approach. Different FO, different direction ... makes some sense. They weren't going to start with the long-term veteran when they took over a couple years ago, knowing that his time was coming to an end, so they started with present and future assets rather than past assets. Or ... perhaps there is something to how each player is viewed ... one a nice white boy from Minnesota, the other, well, not. If there's a double standard, as the OP has pointed out ... address it. Otherwise, let's stop doing the praise/criticize tired old nonsense that has been done to death.

 

What do you think of that? Is there a double standard at play here, or is there just a different approach? Why is that?

[D. Hocking]

Maybe they would have been more concerned about Mauer after 2011 if he had shown up out of shape in 2012.  He actually had a bounce back year and while was not 2009 level, was again an all-star catcher.  He followed that up with having an even  better season in 2013 both offensively and defensively, until that foul tip took him out for the year and changed everything.

 

It is possible his conditioning program could have been different and made a difference post-concussion, or it might not have made a difference.    After 2013 it is harder to say what was due to conditioning, what was due to simply getting older, and what was due to a brain injury that actually caused him to retire when he realized it was still not completely healed five years later.  

 

I am not sure there is a double standard, more like a different standard.  It was under a different regime and Mauer was an established player with a number of successful seasons under his belt.   Plus, while people here don't agree with his workout program the last few years, it was something he did all year long and kept the Twins in the loop of what he was doing.  I do recall what an earlier poster said, that supposedly Joe's trainer was in contact with the Twins.  It is not like he went completely rogue and off the grid and kept the Twins in the dark.

 

 

 

 

[ewen21]

 

No ... that isn't the overriding point ... the title specifically says there is a double standard. I want to talk about that double standard and identify what that is. 

 

Is there a double standard at play here, or is there just a different approach? Why is that?

I took a pretty good stab at it last night in two different posts.  What do you think?  Were my two posts out of line? Inaccurate?  Unfair?

[old nurse]

 

Where are "a lot of assumptions" being made in my post?  Why in the heck do I need to have surveillance on him to know whether or not he did adequate strength training?  He came into camp looking like hell and I started a thread in mlb.com about it because it was that alarming to me.  I am not going to cite articles because I have been down that road and some people just refuse to see what they do not want to see.

 

The fact is, he needed to "build strength" DURING the 2011 and the world renowned Mayo Clinic could only diagnose him with bi-lateral leg weakness.  He was so inactive during that off season his legs atrophied.  That is their diagnosis and not mine. However, it was fairly obvious to me within seconds of seeing him in that camp that something wasn't right.  How does it come to that?  Through a comprehension strength and conditioning program?  

 

As far as Sano goes, that investment in him was made back in 2009 by an entirely different regime and it is about 175 million dollars shy of the investment the Twins made in Joe.  

Assumption one was equating Martins knee to Mauer's knee. 

The second assumption you make  is anything to do with Mauer in 2011 was a lack of conditioning.  There are plenty of medical reasons. The Twins, or Mauer released the symptom of bilateral leg weakness, not the cause of bilateral weakness. You can try to denigrate the health care system, but you thus far have shown only how little you know.

[Squirrel]

 

I took a pretty good stab at it last night in two different posts.  What do you think?  Were my two posts out of line? Inaccurate?  Unfair?

I want to hear from others ... the person I quoted basically said the same ol' stuff we've heard. I appreciate you gave a thoughtful response, but you are but one poster here.

[old nurse]

 

No ... that isn't the overriding point ... the title specifically says there is a double standard. I want to talk about that double standard and identify what that is. We've already had many, many, many threads dedicated to both players and what they have or have not done in their off-season conditioning plans, whether we want to defend or criticize, there has been a difference in how the team has approached both players. That's the double standard ... let's talk about that instead of rehashing the same ol, same ol criticize/defend threads about what the players did/didn't do and talk about how the team's approach is different. This isn't about Joe Mauer and his plan and this isn't about Sano and his plan. This is about the FO and how they have approached each player and why they have approached their off-season in such drastically different ways. Why do you suppose Mauer was given such a bubble while Sano isn't getting the same? Could it be ... dare I say it ... that one is the nice, white boy with means from a nice private school and 'local hero' ... and the other, well, isn't? The purpose of this thread according to the title and to the OP, is to point out there's a double standard. But no one is talking about it. All they are talking about is what Mauer or Sano has or hasn't done and not what the team is doing or didn't do about it. Don't you wonder why one was treated with kid gloves while the other is being so scrutinized? Maybe it's as simple as the FO learned a lesson with how they treated Joe so they are now altering their approach. Different FO, different direction ... makes some sense. They weren't going to start with the long-term veteran when they took over a couple years ago, knowing that his time was coming to an end, so they started with present and future assets rather than past assets. Or ... perhaps there is something to how each player is viewed ... one a nice white boy from Minnesota, the other, well, not. If there's a double standard, as the OP has pointed out ... address it. Otherwise, let's stop doing the praise/criticize tired old nonsense that has been done to death.

 

What do you think of that? Is there a double standard at play here, or is there just a different approach? Why is that?

Was there any difference in how Sano was treated prior to this year and this year?  If your answer is yes then the results of the last couple of years would compared to the first year of Sano's career might give people pause to think something different needs to be done.

[ewen21]

 

Assumption one was equating Martins knee to Mauer's knee. 

The second assumption you make  is anything to do with Mauer in 2011 was a lack of conditioning.  There are plenty of medical reasons. The Twins, or Mauer released the symptom of bilateral leg weakness, not the cause of bilateral weakness. You can try to denigrate the health care system, but you thus far have shown only how little you know.

What?  The Twins or Mauer released the bi-lateral leg weakness diagnosis??  That was the Mayo Clinic and Mauer totally bristled at the notion.  I will go with the Mayo Clinic and the cause of bi-lateral leg weakness is easily researched.  Please do that 

[Squirrel]

 

Was there any difference in how Sano was treated prior to this year and this year?  If your answer is yes then the results of the last couple of years would compared to the first year of Sano's career might give people pause to think something different needs to be done.

The OP claimed there was a double standard. He was quick to point out how Mauer's off-season workouts and conditioning were lax and yet no one from the FO did anything. Now we have Sano, who the OP has pointed out also has had lax off-seasons leading to improperly conditioned body ready to play. Yet the FO is scrutinizing him while never saying boo to Mauer. Okay ... so a double standard has been identified, I'm asking why is that? I'm wondering ... I mean ... gotta say it ... I think there's a reason for it ...

[ewen21]

 

The OP claimed there was a double standard. He was quick to point out how Mauer's off-season workouts and conditioning were lax and yet no one from the FO did anything. Now we have Sano, who the OP has pointed out also has had lax off-seasons leading to improperly conditioned body ready to play. Yet the FO is scrutinizing him while never saying boo to Mauer. Okay ... so a double standard has been identified, I'm asking why is that? I'm wondering ... I mean ... gotta say it ... I think there's a reason for it ...

The reason is pretty obvious.  The Twins invested in Joe, not only to be a franchise player, but also because he was local talent.  He was a product and the Twins held him up on a pedestal.  They looked the other way a lot.  Even with the concussion issue.  Joe came out over two years after being cleared to play saying that he still had symptoms all that time.  Terry Ryan actually expressed frustration with Joe and that is saying something.

 

With regard to the lack of detail in offseason conditioning he was allowed to run his own show.  Sure, he wasn't fat, but simply not being fat doesn't make you STRONG which I feel Joe needed to address.  Why in the heck did he take a slap hitting approach after he busted out in 2009?  He drove like four or five home runs into the right field upper deck that year.  He totally stopped turning on the ball to the point where teams put an absurd opposite field shift on him  THAT didn't even motivate him to adopt a program to make him stronger.  Couldn't have hurt, but it was never explored.

 

The biggest problem with Mauer is no one had the sense to talk to him when he strayed and there were times he kept the time in the dark.  He did in 2011 in a huge way and then again in the three seasons that followed his concussion.  All that time he went through the protocols and no one notices?  He has these difficulties and no teammate or family member voices any concern?  He just keeps "getting at it"

OK.....that is pure insanity.

 

So, yes...in many ways Joe had his own rules.  So have a lot of players. Derek Jeter was pretty much left alone, but the difference there is Jeter held other players accountable and held himself to a high standard.   Joe sort of just wanted to blend in and be one of the guys.

 

In the case of Sano?  He has given the Twins no choice.  THey HAVE TO lean on him.

[old nurse]

 

The reason is pretty obvious.  The Twins invested in Joe, not only to be a franchise player, but also because he was local talent.  He was a product and the Twins held him up on a pedestal.  They looked the other way a lot.  Even with the concussion issue.  Joe came out over two years after being cleared to play saying that he still had symptoms all that time.  Terry Ryan actually expressed frustration with Joe and that is saying something.

 

With regard to the lack of detail in offseason conditioning he was allowed to run his own show.  Sure, he wasn't fat, but simply not being fat doesn't make you STRONG which I feel Joe needed to address.  Why in the heck did he take a slap hitting approach after he busted out in 2009?  He drove like four or five home runs into the right field upper deck that year.  He totally stopped turning on the ball to the point where teams put an absurd opposite field shift on him  THAT didn't even motivate him to adopt a program to make him stronger.  Couldn't have hurt, but it was never explored.

 

The biggest problem with Mauer is no one had the sense to talk to him when he strayed and there were times he kept the time in the dark.  He did in 2011 in a huge way and then again in the three seasons that followed his concussion.  All that time he went through the protocols and no one notices?  He has these difficulties and no teammate or family member voices any concern?  He just keeps "getting at it"

OK.....that is pure insanity.

 

So, yes...in many ways Joe had his own rules.  So have a lot of players. Derek Jeter was pretty much left alone, but the difference there is Jeter held other players accountable and held himself to a high standard.   Joe sort of just wanted to blend in and be one of the guys.

 

In the case of Sano?  He has given the Twins no choice.  THey HAVE TO lean on him.

You do not know what happened in the off season of 2011. Whatever happened led to a SYMPTOM of bilateral leg weakness.  Pretty hard to train if you are sick. You have said he looked bad on arrival to camp. Know of healthy people who look that way?

[drivlikejehu]

I think it's unfortunate that some people get satisfaction from inventing bias-related conspiracies. 

[Craig Arko]

The OP claimed there was a double standard. He was quick to point out how Mauer's off-season workouts and conditioning were lax and yet no one from the FO did anything. Now we have Sano, who the OP has pointed out also has had lax off-seasons leading to improperly conditioned body ready to play. Yet the FO is scrutinizing him while never saying boo to Mauer. Okay ... so a double standard has been identified, I'm asking why is that? I'm wondering ... I mean ... gotta say it ... I think there's a reason for it ...

What reason do you have in mind?

[old nurse]

 

 

The OP claimed there was a double standard. He was quick to point out how Mauer's off-season workouts and conditioning were lax and yet no one from the FO did anything. Now we have Sano, who the OP has pointed out also has had lax off-seasons leading to improperly conditioned body ready to play. Yet the FO is scrutinizing him while never saying boo to Mauer. Okay ... so a double standard has been identified, I'm asking why is that? I'm wondering ... I mean ... gotta say it ... I think there's a reason for it ...

This is Falvey and Levine's second full off season in command of the organization. It is pretty hard to hold them accountable for what happened before they took over.   Did Mauer come in shape for 2018? Did Sano? Mauer retired after the season, Sano did not.  That would be  a difficult supposition t off from two off seasons that they are treated differently

Do all players have the capability to be monitored? Did Sano want his off season progress monitored? Nobody has written a story that Sano is angry about it or did not want to do it. He doesn't have to pay a trainer, more money for him.  The assumption without proof is that Sano was forced to do it.

 

[DrNeau]

 

No ... that isn't the overriding point ... the title specifically says there is a double standard. I want to talk about that double standard and identify what that is. We've already had many, many, many threads dedicated to both players and what they have or have not done in their off-season conditioning plans, whether we want to defend or criticize, there has been a difference in how the team has approached both players. That's the double standard ... let's talk about that instead of rehashing the same ol, same ol criticize/defend threads about what the players did/didn't do and talk about how the team's approach is different. This isn't about Joe Mauer and his plan and this isn't about Sano and his plan. This is about the FO and how they have approached each player and why they have approached their off-season in such drastically different ways. Why do you suppose Mauer was given such a bubble while Sano isn't getting the same? Could it be ... dare I say it ... that one is the nice, white boy with means from a nice private school and 'local hero' ... and the other, well, isn't? The purpose of this thread according to the title and to the OP, is to point out there's a double standard. But no one is talking about it. All they are talking about is what Mauer or Sano has or hasn't done and not what the team is doing or didn't do about it. Don't you wonder why one was treated with kid gloves while the other is being so scrutinized? Maybe it's as simple as the FO learned a lesson with how they treated Joe so they are now altering their approach. Different FO, different direction ... makes some sense. They weren't going to start with the long-term veteran when they took over a couple years ago, knowing that his time was coming to an end, so they started with present and future assets rather than past assets. Or ... perhaps there is something to how each player is viewed ... one a nice white boy from Minnesota, the other, well, not. If there's a double standard, as the OP has pointed out ... address it. Otherwise, let's stop doing the praise/criticize tired old nonsense that has been done to death.

 

What do you think of that? Is there a double standard at play here, or is there just a different approach? Why is that?

 

Why is it for me to explain and provide the reason of Twins having double standard here? I simply noted the obvious and well-documented different set of standards. The content I raised in the links was factual. The onus is not on me to me to explain the reason for it. The thread was created in efforts to demonstrate there is seemingly now a different standard, and then after that, to discuss. You want to know the reason why? I also would like to know the reason.

 

"If there's a double standard, as the OP has pointed out ... address it. Otherwise, let's stop doing the praise/criticize tired old nonsense that has been done to death."

 

Sounds like you wish to want to completely shut down the discussion until I make a claim as to the reason for all of this. It's a pretty extreme position to take, especially when I'm the only person on the whole website to even bring it up.

 

While I cannot definitively demonstrate why these things have occurred, I can speculate why. Before I begin, I will first say that it is interesting to see you saying that Joe Mauer was "treated with kid gloves". Your words, not mine. 

 

If I were to guess, and if I were to explain on a macro-level, it is because Mauer came up as the golden boy, and received the golden treatment, and by the time the organization saw areas needed for improvement, the team had already invested $184 million in him, and decided it was worth more to the organization to ride out the Golden Boy Standard to perpetuity than to take any corrective action(s) against him. Why was he never asked tough questions by the media? Even after announcing in 2016 that he had been suffering with "blurred vision" since August of 2013, no one even asked him why he didn't tell the team. Why is that? We can only speculate. Protection of investment? Face of the Twins? Maybe every employee in the Front Office wanted to be able to brag they were close personal friends with Joe. Maybe it was carefully outlined in Pohlad's will. I have no idea.

 

Now, with the 2018 season recently finished, Mauer retires, and our young 3B who was an all-star in 2017 is being held accountable for conditioning. I already said I welcome the change. However, regarding this supposed “change”, it is yet to be seen as to how much accountability will be enforced, or if this is simply a player on a last chance agreement, I don’t know. As I already said, if it actually is an organizational change to implement a greater level of accountability with strength and conditioning, I wonder why it took until December of 2018 to start implementing it. If the team waited for Mauer to retire before implementing these things, as you conjectured, that would be super alarming. The FO took over in fall of 2016, so if they intentionally waited 2 entire years for Mauer to retire before making organizational changes on strength & conditioning, as you suggested the possibility for, that is super weak, and sort of supports the idea that the special treatment of Mauer has significantly hurt this entire organization.

 

PS - I don't think race really needs to come into the discussion.

[Squirrel]

 

Why is it for me to explain and provide the reason of Twins having double standard here? I simply noted the obvious and well-documented different set of standards. The content I raised in the links was factual. The onus is not on me to me to explain the reason for it. The thread was created in efforts to demonstrate there is seemingly now a different standard, and then after that, to discuss. You want to know the reason why? I also would like to know the reason.

 

"If there's a double standard, as the OP has pointed out ... address it. Otherwise, let's stop doing the praise/criticize tired old nonsense that has been done to death."

 

Sounds like you wish to want to completely shut down the discussion until I make a claim as to the reason for all of this. It's a pretty extreme position to take, especially when I'm the only person on the whole website to even bring it up.

 

While I cannot definitively demonstrate why these things have occurred, I can speculate why. Before I begin, I will first say that it is interesting to see you saying that Joe Mauer was "treated with kid gloves". Your words, not mine. 

 

If I were to guess, and if I were to explain on a macro-level, it is because Mauer came up as the golden boy, and received the golden treatment, and by the time the organization saw areas needed for improvement, the team had already invested $184 million in him, and decided it was worth more to the organization to ride out the Golden Boy Standard to perpetuity than to take any corrective action(s) against him. Why was he never asked tough questions by the media? Even after announcing in 2016 that he had been suffering with "blurred vision" since August of 2013, no one even asked him why he didn't tell the team. Why is that? We can only speculate. Protection of investment? Face of the Twins? Maybe every employee in the Front Office wanted to be able to brag they were close personal friends with Joe. Maybe it was carefully outlined in Pohlad's will. I have no idea.

 

Now, with the 2018 season recently finished, Mauer retires, and our young 3B who was an all-star in 2017 is being held accountable for conditioning. I already said I welcome the change. However, regarding this supposed “change”, it is yet to be seen as to how much accountability will be enforced, or if this is simply a player on a last chance agreement, I don’t know. As I already said, if it actually is an organizational change to implement a greater level of accountability with strength and conditioning, I wonder why it took until December of 2018 to start implementing it. If the team waited for Mauer to retire before implementing these things, as you conjectured, that would be super alarming. The FO took over in fall of 2016, so if they intentionally waited 2 entire years for Mauer to retire before making organizational changes on strength & conditioning, as you suggested the possibility for, that is super weak, and sort of supports the idea that the special treatment of Mauer has significantly hurt this entire organization.

 

PS - I don't think race really needs to come into the discussion.

Why not? If you want to know why the double standard, why is that not a possibility? It seems a reasonable possibility. Are Sano and Mauer viewed differently because of race and that is why one is receiving more scrutiny now than the other ever did? I don't know why you think that shouldn't be a part of the discussion when it very well could be the underlying reason. You are the one that pointed out the double standard yet you don't want to discuss it? Seems to me you are the one trying to shut down discussion here ... or direct it on one path.

[DrNeau]

Why not? If you want to know why the double standard, why is that not a possibility? It seems a reasonable possibility. Are Sano and Mauer viewed differently because of race and that is why one is receiving more scrutiny now than the other ever did? I don't know why you think that shouldn't be a part of the discussion when it very well could be the underlying reason. You are the one that pointed out the double standard yet you don't want to discuss it? Seems to me you are the one trying to shut down discussion here ... or direct it on one path.

I just don’t want it to evolve into the idea that it is MY assertion that the different treatment is based upon race.

 

You want to talk about it? Fine... have at it. Go ahead an insert race into the discussion, then. I didn't really think it was applicable, but if you think it is a "reasonable possibility", I can concede that it is conceivable that it race is the reason for different treatment. 

 

Those kid gloves, though...

 

[Squirrel]

 

I just don’t want it to evolve into the idea that it is MY assertion that the different treatment is based upon race.

You want to talk about it? Fine... have at it. Go ahead an insert race into the discussion, then. I don’t really think it’s applicable, but I can concede that it is a conceivable that it race is the reason for different treatment.

I don't disagree that there is a double standard at play. That was the purpose of your thread, was it not, to assert that there is a double standard and then highlighting the two players to prove that? I'm not saying that you think it's due to race, I'm saying that it could have a part in it. You brought to light this double standard ... now that you did, I think it's fair for any of us to jump in on that and discuss the double standard rather than just go down a path we've been on many, many, many, many times before that leads to nowhere but two sides ... one criticizing a player (be it Mauer or Sano), the other defending. We all know what your feelings are about Mauer ... they are well documented, and then some. You've started many threads in the past to discuss this or inserted yourself in many more to drive the discussion there. But this thread is a little different and you've actually given us something different to discuss. It's not the same ol' same ol' and don't think it should be. If there is a double standard at play here, you said there was, and I don't disagree. Regardless of our differing opinions on the players involved, we agree on the double standard angle. All I'm saying, and it's my opinion, I'm not saying it's yours, but you did bring up this double standard, all I'm saying that race could very well play a part in the perception of need to give one player more scrutiny than the other. But then again, and I've said this, too ... this double standard could be as simple as ... it's a different FO trying to guide Sano to reach his potential than the FO of the past guiding Mauer to reach his. But, as you also pointed out, this FO was in place for a couple years, so why didn't they give Mauer this treatment when they took over? Well, they didn't give Sano this treatment then, either. And it could be that they saw an aging veteran at the end of his career and thought that their time and efforts were better spent guiding the future rather than bothering to try and change the past. That's really a huge difference, don't you think? I mean, they really started their hardcore scrutiny of Sano and his conditioning this past season ... do you think they should have done that to Mauer? I guess taking the approach of 'why bother with that now' is understandable whether or not you agree. And, well, this is the first off-season, that I know of, that they are filming and watching his workouts. So, maybe there really isn't a double standard being employed here. I'm not sure. But, I do know that one player is white, the other is black. It's a little difficult not to enter that information into an equation when discussing double standards employed on how this FO is going about guiding players' off-season training regimens.

[big dog]

big dog opens door...sticks head in, looks around...says "oops, wrong room". 

 

I'll be down at the bar if anyone needs me, hoping we sign a free agent whose name I recognize before too long.

[DrNeau]

I don't disagree that there is a double standard at play. That was the purpose of your thread, was it not, to assert that there is a double standard and then highlighting the two players to prove that? I'm not saying that you think it's due to race, I'm saying that it could have a part in it. You brought to light this double standard ... now that you did, I think it's fair for any of us to jump in on that and discuss the double standard rather than just go down a path we've been on many, many, many, many times before that leads to nowhere but two sides ... one criticizing a player (be it Mauer or Sano), the other defending. We all know what your feelings are about Mauer ... they are well documented, and then some. You've started many threads in the past to discuss this or inserted yourself in many more to drive the discussion there. But this thread is a little different and you've actually given us something different to discuss. It's not the same ol' same ol' and don't think it should be. If there is a double standard at play here, you said there was, and I don't disagree. Regardless of our differing opinions on the players involved, we agree on the double standard angle. All I'm saying, and it's my opinion, I'm not saying it's yours, but you did bring up this double standard, all I'm saying that race could very well play a part in the perception of need to give one player more scrutiny than the other. But then again, and I've said this, too ... this double standard could be as simple as ... it's a different FO trying to guide Sano to reach his potential than the FO of the past guiding Mauer to reach his. But, as you also pointed out, this FO was in place for a couple years, so why didn't they give Mauer this treatment when they took over? Well, they didn't give Sano this treatment then, either. And it could be that they saw an aging veteran at the end of his career and thought that their time and efforts were better spent guiding the future rather than bothering to try and change the past. That's really a huge difference, don't you think? I mean, they really started their hardcore scrutiny of Sano and his conditioning this past season ... do you think they should have done that to Mauer? I guess taking the approach of 'why bother with that now' is understandable whether or not you agree. And, well, this is the first off-season, that I know of, that they are filming and watching his workouts. So, maybe there really isn't a double standard being employed here. I'm not sure. But, I do know that one player is white, the other is black. It's a little difficult not to enter that information into an equation when discussing double standards employed on how this FO is going about guiding players' off-season training regimens.

If the team is drawing a line in the sand for accountability, I'd like to think that race is not a factor, and that the decision is purely limited to player development.

 

For that scenario to be true, though, it would be for Sano to be held to a higher standard because he is black, but then simultaneously refer to Buxton as the "starting Center Fielder" right after he just hit .156/0/4 and came out and publicly said how "pissed" he was at the Twins - while at a children's hospital charity event.

 

To me, it doesn't seem to add up.

 

I just want us to be competitive in all areas - including player development. If that means that in order to get there, there needs to be a line drawn in the sand when it comes to strength and conditioning, then so be it. I want this team to win!

[ewen21]

Not sure it's up to us to say the WHY as far as the double standard goes.  I did my level best to explain it, but there surely existed a double standard for Mauer and all others.  I don't see how this can even be disputed.  All teams have players who are above the fray and Joe pretty much was above the fray.  When he inexplicably bunted in that game against Cleveland everyone should remember the Gardenhire quote.  

 

Joe had pretty much free reign to do as he does.  It isn't like he was an idiot running amok destroying things.  He was, however, amiss in some areas.  Not only was his off season training not up to standard, but also his approach to hitting was never tweaked.  Even when he was taking more strikes than anyone in the league and slapping an overwhelming majority of airborne balls to left he barely said peep.  I was absolutely stunned when Bert finally had the balls to mention it on the air  That was only when Dick Bremer said something like, "there isn't a player in the league that has lost more hits than Mauer to the shift" or some such silliness.  That was when Bert chimed in and said, "Well, he has to ADJUST"

What a novel concept.  Why didn't he?  Why couldn't he?

 

I know a lot of people aren't liking what I have said here, but let's be honest folks. These are not "assumptions".  Nor is (was) the fact that he needed to build strength IN SEASON during 2011.  Mauer pretty much admitted he figured he'd rest after surgery and that wreaked havoc on him.  He made a mistake.  I think the Twins trusted he'd do something to rehab the thing on his own and he simply dropped the ball.  Either way, there was poor communication from Mauer to the Twins,  It happened again with the concussion thing.  I took him three years to say he was STILL suffering from symptoms after he was cleared.  That makes no sense whatsoever.  This assumes the doctors, his family, his teammates Twins officials of any kind were either complicit in some charade, Joe kept it a secret (not possible) or it was something he said to explain why he hit so poorly for a few seasons.

 

Who knows?  Joe is a pretty mysterious cat.

[ewen21]

http://www.startribune.com/laudner-on-fsn-ballplayers-do-stupid-things/98912509/

Ron Gardenhire in his postgame press conference: "I don't ever tell a hitter what to do. He tried a drag bunt. Ask Joe about that, what his thoughts were."

That was in a season where we were competing against a division rival for the top spot.

 

Juxtapose that between Gardy's reaction to Aaron Hicks flipping a ball in a game in Boston where we were ahead 8 runs in the 8th inning in a meaningless game.

 

 

[ewen21]

 

big dog opens door...sticks head in, looks around...says "oops, wrong room". 

 

I'll be down at the bar if anyone needs me, hoping we sign a free agent whose name I recognize before too long.

My..... a lot of weather we've been having lately

 

[ashbury]

big dog opens door...sticks head in, looks around...says "oops, wrong room". 

 

I'll be down at the bar if anyone needs me, hoping we sign a free agent whose name I recognize before too long.

 

My..... a lot of weather we've been having lately

Moderator's note: I started to say something, then decided to wait and see, but now it seems I needed to. We say to posters frequently, if you don't care for a particular topic, there's no obligation to comment on it. That seems the case here. Commenting in effect that a thread isn't worth commenting on just leads to bickering. (The response here was restrained, but still invites a direction away from constructive talk.)

[Squirrel]

 

If the team is drawing a line in the sand for accountability, I'd like to think that race is not a factor, and that the decision is purely limited to player development. 

 

For that scenario to be true, though, it would be for Sano to be held to a higher standard because he is black, but then simultaneously refer to Buxton as the "starting Center Fielder" right after he just hit .156/0/4 and came out and publicly said how "pissed" he was at the Twins - while at a children's hospital charity event.

 

It doesn't seem to add up, but I can accept and admit that it is at least a plausible reason. 

 

I just want us to be competitive in all areas - including player development. If that means that in order to get there, there needs to be a line drawn in the sand when it comes to strength and conditioning, then so be it. I want this team to win! 

This is reasonable and a standard we'd all like to see. But there is no longer a reason to post pictures and stories about Mauer moving forward as he is no longer part of the team and no longer represents that standard, or non-standard as you have implied for years now. I'm hoping that the standard they are holding Sano to is something they are doing moving forward for everyone. As I said, I think that it's plausible that it's not a true double standard as it's old regime v new regime with new staff and new trainers ... changes they've made recently. However ... while I hope that they concern themselves with training and conditioning standards for all their players, it does also seem reasonable that that won't/can't be exactly the same for everyone. What I want to see is results. I think Sano gave them reasons to apply more scrutiny to him. I don't know what they are doing about Buxton but he's a different player, with a different make up and a different level of skills. And I don't know what they are doing with everyone else, either, for that matter. And maybe with some they don't need to because those players are more disciplined and focused without additional help from the team. Not everyone has that same level of discipline and focus, no matter the level of talent, no matter the level of desire. While it might seem logical that when there is talent and desire, there should be equal amounts of discipline and focus behind. It just isn't always the case. In my career and business ... it is extremely talent oriented, almost always talent oriented. So many players who just have it vs those who don't. It's not to say that those with less talent can't do it ... their road is much more difficult and filled with extra hours upon hours of practice. But I've also seen some of the most talented practice less because they simply don't need to because they just have that much talent. I've also seen some of the most talented have careers that have ended badly because they didn't keep up, also. And I've seen some prolong their careers beyond belief because they took extra, special care. In the end ... players are different, talents are different, skills are different. You don't want to see someone with loads of talent, like Sano and Buxton, falter. When they do, you take whatever measures you feel you need to with each individually to hopefully get the most out of them for the longest possible amount of time. They aren't the same players or persons, so how they do that is going to differ, and look to be a double standard. But we don't know for certain it is because we don't know everything that goes on behind closed doors. <shrug> I always hope for the best, and hope that all involved are putting their best feet forward, and prepare for disappointment because I think it is sometimes impossible for some to meet fan expectations. But I think the changes they've made in training staff may make a difference and signal the change that you want. Time will tell.

[DrNeau]

 

I mean, they really started their hardcore scrutiny of Sano and his conditioning this past season ... do you think they should have done that to Mauer? I guess taking the approach of 'why bother with that now' is understandable whether or not you agree. 

 

Absolutely - they should have done that to Mauer. 

 

I cannot disagree more about the "why bother with that now" approach being understandable. 

 

By Falvey coming out last week and saying Buxton is the "starting CF", he is dangerously approaching the continuance of this "golden boy" treatment. We don't need any more golden boys... just some good old-fashioned hard work - across the board. 

[DrNeau]

 

You don't want to see someone with loads of talent, like Sano and Buxton, falter. When they do, you take whatever measures you feel you need to with each individually to hopefully get the most out of them for the longest possible amount of time.

 

Or, in the case of Joe Mauer, according to you, it is acceptable to just say "why bother with that now" and let it slide. 

[Squirrel]

Or, in the case of Joe Mauer, according to you, it is acceptable to just say "why bother with that now" and let it slide.

Because Joe is no longer on this team. He’s done and gone. You can’t hold him to a standard any longer. And those in charge of his training and conditioning are also no longer here. So he is no longer relevant. How they deal with players going forward is and I hope they take necessary and different steps going forward. Period. If that’s a different standard than what they held Joe to ... good, isn’t it? Isn’t that what you want?

[DrNeau]

 

But I think the changes they've made in training staff may make a difference and signal the change that you want. Time will tell.

I sure hope so! 

[ewen21]

 

Absolutely - they should have done that to Mauer. 

 

I cannot disagree more about the "why bother with that now" approach being understandable. 

 

By Falvey coming out last week and saying Buxton is the "starting CF", he is dangerously approaching the continuance of this "golden boy" treatment. We don't need any more golden boys... just some good old-fashioned hard work - across the board. 

I agree in a big way.  I see no reason why they needed to publicly announce that.  That won't placate Buxton and if it does it should not.  A private conversation (rather than a public declaration) should have sufficed.  I've no idea why they felt needed to do that.

[Lefty74]

Because Joe is no longer on this team. He’s done and gone. You can’t hold him to a standard any longer. And those in charge of his training and conditioning are also no longer here. So he is no longer relevant. How they deal with players going forward is and I hope they take necessary and different steps going forward. Period. If that’s a different standard than what they held Joe to ... good, isn’t it? Isn’t that what you want?

Agree, and BTW Joe took plenty of grief over the years, so enough is enough. Sano has brought this on himself and we as fans should expect a more mature and professional approach going forward.