Reusse column on Sano

[mazeville]

 

Byron Buxton was insane for 150 plate appearances.  That's it.  He was pretty good for another month.

 

Miguel did it for 250.  And was even better.  Then he did the same thing several other stretches of the last two years.  

 

And he has never been as putrid as Buxton has been for long stretches of seasons.  If we're going to go down the Sano vs. Buxton line....let's be real frank: Buxton has been worlds below Sano in his offensive contributions.

 

Yeah, except Buxton is an otherworldly defender and the best outfielder in the game. He is also the fastest player in the majors who could very well break the record for consecutive steals without being caught.

 

I, too, am frustrated by Buxton's bat and was not happy when the Twins DL's him over a migraine. But if Sano isn't hitting, he brings absolutely no value to the table. Buxton hitting .220 still changes the complexion of the game. So that's not remotely a fair comparison.

 

The thread should be about Sano, and what to do about his performance. Because it has not been good. 

[Doubles]

 

Byron Buxton was insane for 150 plate appearances.  That's it.  He was pretty good for another month.

 

Miguel did it for 250.  And was even better.  Then he did the same thing several other stretches of the last two years.  

 

And he has never been as putrid as Buxton has been for long stretches of seasons.  If we're going to go down the Sano vs. Buxton line....let's be real frank: Buxton has been worlds below Sano in his offensive contributions.

Buxton cleary has a long ways to go offensively- is anyone even questioning that?  

 

He's also pretty good at catching the ball, and perhaps his defense would improve the Twins chances of giving up less runs.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yeah, except Buxton is an otherworldly defender and the best outfielder in the game. He is also the fastest player in the majors who could very well break the record for consecutive steals without being caught.

 

I, too, am frustrated by Buxton's bat and was not happy when the Twins DL's him over a migraine. But if Sano isn't hitting, he brings absolutely no value to the table. Buxton hitting .220 still changes the complexion of the game. So that's not remotely a fair comparison.

 

The thread should be about Sano, and what to do about his performance. Because it has not been good. 

 

Someone else brought up how Buxton does everything right and gave a glowing comparison of him.  We have reasons to be concerned about both of our cornerstones.   Particularly if both of them keep finding a way to miss big chunks of the season.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Sano's, errrrr, 'level of conditioning' has been an issue for years now.  3 HRs in 5 games earlier this season notwithstanding, Sano was out of shape then, and is out of shape now.  

 

 I want him to be svelte enough to be cat-like at 3rd base, 

What are you basing that on other than Reusse articles? 

 

That very unlikely to ever be the case. Realistic expectations are important if we're going to criticize him. 

[Doubles]

Can someone please remind me again why it's become so taboo to want / expect a world-class athlete to be in peak physical condition, or something relatively close to it?  

 

All this 'sensitivity' about body-shaming or whatever the issue is here confounds me.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Can someone please remind me again why it's become so taboo to want / expect a world-class athlete to be in peak physical condition, or something relatively close to it?  

 

All this 'sensitivity' about body-shaming or whatever the issue is here confounds me.

 

I think it's the inconsistency that bugs people.  I see a lot of doughy baseball players.  

 

Only one guy seems to get a lot of threads about it.

[mazeville]

 

Someone else brought up how Buxton does everything right and gave a glowing comparison of him.  We have reasons to be concerned about both of our cornerstones.   Particularly if both of them keep finding a way to miss big chunks of the season.

 

I won't disagree with that at all. There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about both of them. Buxton's migraines are a bit more disconcerting, given his concussion history. 

 

But my point is that there is less to be concerned about regarding Buxton, because he has value that is not on the offensive end. Sano's problem even outside of the injuries has to do with the mediocre offensive output. And it has definitely been mediocre since the all-star game last year.

[mazeville]

 

I think it's the inconsistency that bugs people.  I see a lot of doughy baseball players.  

 

Only one guy seems to get a lot of threads about it.

 

What other guy on the Twins is doughy and is not meeting MVP-level expectations? 

 

Problem isn't just weight. It's performance. Perform and you won't have people publicly complain about your weight. It's pretty simple. 

[Doubles]

 

What are you basing that on other than Reusse articles? 

 

That very unlikely to ever be the case. Realistic expectations are important if we're going to criticize him. 

I vehemently disagree with anyone that contends Sano's current physical condition is optimal for a Major League third baseman.  I don't need newspaper articles or anything beyond my own two eyes and a frame-of-reference over decades of knowing what a Major League infielder looks like.

[Doubles]

 

I think it's the inconsistency that bugs people.  I see a lot of doughy baseball players.  

 

Only one guy seems to get a lot of threads about it.

That one guy could make all those threads disappear by a) performing, which I can concede lends itself to a certain level of subjectivity and staying in the lineup.  

 

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

I vehemently disagree with anyone that contends Sano's current physical condition is optimal for a Major League third baseman.  I don't need newspaper articles or anything beyond my own two eyes and a frame-of-reference over decades of knowing what a Major League infielder looks like.

Optimal is relative. You and I haven no idea what constitutes a healthy weight for Sano.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

It wouldn't just be weight related. 

 

Hiring one specifically for one individual is a little out of the ordinary but the company is already investing in training and development so you might as well keep investing. 

 

Smart organizations don't draw lines. Saying that you will invest this much but not this much is a good way to guarantee sunk cost. 

 

Not having a limit on investment is also a good way to throw good money after bad.

[Riverbrian]

 

Does it need to be THE cause?  It has been identified as an issue that has effected him adversely so that being the case should there not be an attempt on his part to rectify this situation?

 

I'm not sure that it has been identified as an issue that has effected him adversely. 

 

Finely tuned athletes blow hamstrings. Finely tuned athletes foul balls off of their body parts. Finely tuned athletes have been considered injury prone from nagging to chronic. When it happens to Byron Buxton it can't be tied to weight so it never is but when the same thing happens to Sano... it seems that some just reach for the easy button and call it case closed. .

 

I'm concerned that many make natural assumptions based on his weight, fixate on those assumptions and then leap to conclusions drawn from those assumptions. 

 

To be fair... it would also be an assumption to assume that weight isn't effecting him but I'm not aware of anything that clearly connects the dots from his size to performance. 

 

I watch him move... he can move. He isn't slow, he moves decently to his left and right, he gets down on grounders, he has a rocket arm, he hits the ball hard.

 

He's 24 years old... 24 year old's can eat Styrofoam and process it. They can carry that weight but yeah... that will most likely change incrementally when his metabolism starts slowing down. Then it becomes a Beatles song... "Boy... you're gonna carry that weight... carry that weight a long time".

 

It would be best for him over the long haul to get things under control but he's 24... I don't think he's on some sort of health cliff yet.

 

His plate discipline on the other hand... that's what fell off the cliff at age 24. I'd like to see him spend some time in the film room, I'd like him to focus on contact and start a personal war against striking out. I have a suspicion that if stopped chasing crap that he just might explode into something we like watching. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Not having a limit on investment is also a good way to throw good money after bad.

 

Well Yeah... if you are going to not be prudent about it.

 

You wouldn't consider this type of thing for a 42nd round draft pick. You'd expect the 42nd round draft pick to do what it takes and if he can't get it together on his own... you move on because you have similar talent replacements waiting in line. 

 

But it makes no sense for the Twins to not consider an extra mile or two with a player of Sano's reported potential.

 

His ROI is off the charts according to the scouts and when you consider the investment and potential return. If any organization just sat back and left the fate of that ROI to the hands of a misguided 24 year old kid. That would be just as much on the Twins as on Sano. 

 

Problem: You have a tremendously gifted player not taking his talents seriously. 

 

Solution A: Declare that it is up to him and hope he stops doing that.

 

Solution B: Hire a personal assistant to help keep him focused. 

 

I'm going with B. 

 

Solution A isn't a solution... it would be like buying a plot of land hoping to strike oil. The geologists all issue reports saying that there is tons of oil and they tell you that you are going to be rich. So you drill down 25 feet and stop because you always only go 25 feet and you don't strike oil.

 

Keep going... at least see if the geologists are right. 

[Doubles]

Optimal is relative. You and I haven no idea what constitutes a healthy weight for Sano.

To be brutally honest, I couldn’t care less.

 

I want my third baseman to be on the field and to look more like a Major League infielder than an NFL lineman.

[ewen21]

 

 

 

I'm concerned that many make natural assumptions based on his weight, fixate on those assumptions and then leap to conclusions drawn from those assumptions. 

 

To be fair... it would also be an assumption to assume that weight isn't effecting him but I'm not aware of anything that clearly connects the dots from his size to performance. 

 

Seems as you're saying because you see no evidence there is a connection between his weight and hitting that other people shouldn't see it either.  

 

I can tell you from firsthand experience that I have been through several body transformations in my life.  I have participated in 90 day transformations and there is a reason why it is called that.  In 90 days you can literally change your life through a healthy diet plan and with weight training.  If a middle aged guy working full time like me (and literally thousands of other ordinary folks) can do this, shouldn't a professional athlete be able to at least approach something on that level?  He has months to accomplish this.

 

He will never know until he actually tries something on that level.  You could say you don't see a connection between that and his hitting all day long, but the guy has gained no less than 50 pounds in the last five years and that isn't a good thing for anyone.   If he were to slim down to about 245lbs and be in better condition he'd experience increased energy levels and probably would be more motivated to make other changes in his life.  You can all this notion silly, but as I said, I have experienced this phenomenon.  Based off my own personal experience (and unimpeachable facts about being overweight) it is pretty easy to draw a simple conclusion about what fitness can do for a person.  Asking a professional athlete to make that kind of commitment shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

A year or two ago, I didn't mind Sano's weight.  Well.....it's gotten out of hand.  

And finally, the underlined above is a poor characterization of people of the opinion he should lose weight.  I'm making assumptions and am fixed on it?

Uh, no.

[Thrylos]

 

Sano has been pathetic relative to expectations.

 

If you feel that a career .252/.344/.493 line, .356 wOBA, 122 wRC+, 124 OPS+ is "pathetic", for a 24 year old, I'd love to hear how you feel about the rest of the Twins, including the guy who was ranked ahead of him in almost all the prospect lists...

 

 

[Doubles]

 I'm concerned that many make natural assumptions based on his weight, fixate on those assumptions and then leap to conclusions drawn from those assumptions. 

 

I clearly am making assumptions that Sano’s play at third base, the position which he holds by far the highest value in the field, would benefit from dropping some poundcake. Does it really take a PhD to think a 260lb 3rd baseman would be quicker & more agile than a 300 pounder? I also am assuming his chances of staying healthy would increase as well.

 

I don’t expect Sano to lose 60 pounds, and I highly doubt he’ll drop below 240 ever again. But I believe it is entirely reasonable to expect some level of fitness, and to expect an increased level of performance relative to fitness.

 

If those assumptions weren’t widely accepted, if not absolute truths, then why are so many professional athletes dedicated to nutrition and fitness at off-the-chart levels?

[Riverbrian]

 

Does it really take a PhD to think a 260lb 3rd baseman would be quicker & more agile than a 300 pounder? 

 

To think it... No it doesn't.

 

To Prove it... It does. 

[ewen21]

 

To think it... No it doesn't.

 

To Prove it... It does. 

Gain 30 pounds and then get back to us.

 

There is a difference

 

 

[ewen21]

 

I don’t expect Sano to lose 60 pounds, and I highly doubt he’ll drop below 240 ever again. But I believe it is entirely reasonable to expect some level of fitness, and to expect an increased level of performance relative to fitness.

If those assumptions weren’t widely accepted, if not absolute truths, then why are so many professional athletes dedicated to nutrition and fitness at off-the-chart levels?

 

Not too much to ask, imo

[Doubles]

To think it... No it doesn't.

 

To Prove it... It does.

 

If we truly believe carrying around the equivalent of a bag of salt pellets wouldn’t inhibit a Major Leaguer from being the best infielder he can be, we have truly lost the forrest in the trees.

[Riverbrian]

 

Gain 30 pounds and then get back to us.

 

There is a difference

 

I'm way ahead of you.     

[TheLeviathan]

 

I'm not sure that it has been identified as an issue that has effected him adversely. 

 

Finely tuned athletes blow hamstrings. Finely tuned athletes foul balls off of their body parts. Finely tuned athletes have been considered injury prone from nagging to chronic. When it happens to Byron Buxton it can't be tied to weight so it never is but when the same thing happens to Sano... it seems that some just reach for the easy button and call it case closed. .

 

I'm concerned that many make natural assumptions based on his weight, fixate on those assumptions and then leap to conclusions drawn from those assumptions. 

 

This is so well said.  Some are geting caught up in numbers with no idea of what Miguel Sano's health, body type, and other factors say is important.  

 

I've had people mistake me for 30 pounds lighter than I actually am.  Why?  Because I carry a significant amount of weight in areas people don't account for in looking at a person.  Miguel is a big boy with a lot of muscle on his frame, I'm not surprised at all he weighs more than people expect.

 

I think it's ok to feel the team needs to stay on his fitness levels, but reckless speculation based on rumors of weight and what you see are not particularly well founded IMO.

[ewen21]

 

This is so well said.  Some are geting caught up in numbers with no idea of what Miguel Sano's health, body type, and other factors say is important.  

 

I've had people mistake me for 30 pounds lighter than I actually am.  Why?  Because I carry a significant amount of weight in areas people don't account for in looking at a person.  Miguel is a big boy with a lot of muscle on his frame, I'm not surprised at all he weighs more than people expect.

 

I think it's ok to feel the team needs to stay on his fitness levels, but reckless speculation based on rumors of weight and what you see are not particularly well founded IMO.

 

Yes, but I came over to the other side this year.  He put on a few too many.

 

I'm 5' 10" 210 and people don't think I am that heavy.  I feel a big difference between 210 and the low 190s where I need to be.

[Doubles]

I think it's ok to feel the team needs to stay on his fitness levels, but reckless speculation based on rumors of weight and what you see are not particularly well founded IMO.

On top of my own reckless speculation, I have seen Sano himself quoted at multiple season’s ends, professing to lose weight in the off-season, only to come back heavier the following spring.

 

Not exactly what I would call ‘dedicated to his craft.’

 

And for those trumpeting “he’s only 24...”. It only sets trickier with age.

[TheLeviathan]

 

On top of my own reckless speculation, I have seen Sano himself quoted at multiple season’s ends, professing to lose weight in the off-season, only to come back heavier the following spring.

Not exactly what I would call ‘dedicated to his craft.’

And for those trumpeting “he’s only 24...”. It only sets trickier with age.

 

Has he come back heavier?  He doesn't look all that much different than last year IMO.

 

I just get annoyed when people run with some rather large assumptions in their argument.  We all want our Twins on the field and healthy and in the best shape to perform.  But that is not a simple, one-size-fits-all desire.

 

And I certainly wouldn't say "He's 300 pounds therefore he is lazy" (no one has expressly said this, but it is heavily implied) when you neither know if he is 300 nor do you have any idea of his work habits.

[Thrylos]

 

Gain 30 pounds and then get back to us.

 

There is a difference

 

Tell this to Aaron Judge.

[Doubles]

For the record, I have never called Sano, or any other Major Leaguer, lazy. I’ve seen firsthand up close & personal how hard Major Leaguers work at their craft. Would be impossible to be lazy and a Major Leaguer.

 

One of my assumptions, based on nothing more than understanding how much work goes into a Major League swing, is that Sano works extremely hard.

 

Another of my assumptions, based on reports that Sano’s weight climbs every time he reports to spring training, is that through better nutrition & an increased level of physical fitness, Sano could put himself in better position to be healthy & successful.

[Doubles]

Tell this to Aaron Judge.

No idea what the inference is here.

 

Never saw Judge before he was with the Yankees. Also have never heard anyone question his level of fitness. He played in 155 games last season. Has played in all 31 Yankees games this season. Either this is a completely absurd comparison, or I’m missing something in a major way here.

 

Again, to avoid the heat: get, and stay, in the lineup. Perform. It’s really that simple.