The Denard Span Non-DL Watch

[Highabove]

And frankly, it's not that uncommon for a team to keep let a banged up player sit for a week so they don't have to lose him for another week. Most teams do it.

 

I have no problem with this. If you know that he'll be back in 7 days or less, of course you don't DL him. But once it gets to that 7 days and there still is no certainty on when he'll return, DL only makes sense.

 

This just in from the Keystone Kops on Day 9 of the Denard Death Watch:

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166844536.html

 

"Span had an magnetic resonance imaging exam of his neck on Monday, which came back negative. On Tuesday he will have an MRI of his right clavicle.

Span injured himself Aug. 12 trying to make a falling catch in center field. He thought he would be ready in a few days, but continues to feel discomfort.

The Twins still won't say he's a candidate for the disabled list, but they ordered the exams to make sure nothing more serious is bothering him."

 

TR usually breaks out Antony for the really ridiculous PR fluff that you just can't make up:

 

"Basically we're doing that just to make sure we're not missing anything," Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony said. "We want to rule everything out and give him peace of mind."

 

 

 

 

The Front Office told Baker to get a second opinion, just for his peace of mind.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Now we add this to the mix: Span didn't do his MRI today - he's claustrophobic.

[powrwrap]

Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

[jokin]

Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...[/QUOTE]

 

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...

 

I don't mind the delay so much - you can go up to 10 days retroactive, and the only thing we're losing is a bench spot, which we don't need as we're not playing for anything.

 

What get's disturbing is not having accurate diagnosis in the first place, or treatment plans that don't show result. Are we any different than other MLB clubs in that area? I don't know. But it's a legitimate question.

[Top Gun]

That's how mangement works, they tie Gardy hands in hope that he quits, because they don't have the balls to fire him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...[/QUOTE]

 

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

 

We all know you have TR on speed dial and intricate knowledge of the inner workings of the front office.

 

Nobody here has any idea what Ryan is thinking or what he's going to do with the medical staff. It doesn't make sense to fire people with less than two months left in the season. After all, you still need doctors to treat players if the season is happening.

[jokin]

Didn't we just see this act with Trevor Plouffe? He's got a sore thumb, he's still got a sore thumb, he's still got it, yep still sore. After 8 days of this they retroactively put him on the DL. I sense a pattern here...[/QUOTE]

 

Terry Ryan has assured us since coming back on board last November that he is doing a comprehensive review of the situation and will verify if your wildly speculative assertion has any merit whatsoever...when he gets around to it.

 

We all know you have TR on speed dial and intricate knowledge of the inner workings of the front office.

 

Nobody here has any idea what Ryan is thinking or what he's going to do with the medical staff. It doesn't make sense to fire people with less than two months left in the season. After all, you still need doctors to treat players if the season is happening.

 

Nothing in my comment connotes that I have Ryan on speed dial. I did reference his very comments from 9 months ago upon resuming his role as GM. I have not advocated firing people with less than two months left in the season, but you would have to admit that this is a systemic problem that goes back quite a while and now borders on tragi-comic. To pretend that this doesn't call for a greater sense of urgency to reassure the players and fans alike that they are fully focused on getting a better handle on this issue is burying one's head in the sand.

[deanlambrecht]

At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

 

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

[John Bonnes]

At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

 

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

 

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

[jokin]

At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

 

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

 

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

 

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

[Craig Arko]

At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

 

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

 

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

 

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

 

Followed by the asteroid impact and the end of all life on Earth.

[jokin]

At this point in the season, who cares? Rochester is fighting for a playoff spot. Mastroianni is getting a good look filling Span's spot.

 

While I, too, question the medical staff of this team (see the Pavano article), I think luckylager's post is about right.

 

So essentially the answer is: "We just don't care that much."

 

....Which is an early indicator of soon-empty stadiums, bags over the heads of the dwindling actual attendees, falling TV ratings and ultimately long-term rearrangement of the professional team pecking order in a given market.

 

Followed by the asteroid impact and the end of all life on Earth.

 

Someone apparently wasn't around when the asteroid hit the Twins club in 70's.... and again in the 80's........followed by the 90's......and the early 2000s......Scorched Earth time, empty stadiums, 7 year battle to contract the team that ended up in court- which was led by the owner.

[greengoblinrulz]

Lot of the problem with DLing Span is who do you call up.

MN has made it clear they will not call up Parmelle, Arcia, Benson right now as they are in the playoff hunt :roll:and they need Escobar to play 3B....who else is there. They cannot help the MLB team since it would hurt their minot league teams too much!!!

[joeboo_22]

If your argument is there isn't anyone worth calling up and playing with 24 is just as good as playing with 25 even thought I should say 23 is just as good as 24 because Butera is 1 of the 25, and he plays about as much as he deserves to (not much), you have a losing argument.

 

It's a bad trend. Look at it over the year. It started with Baker in the off season/spring training. And then its been Mourneau, Walters, Pavano, Plouffe, as well as others.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Nothing in my comment connotes that I have Ryan on speed dial. I did reference his very comments from 9 months ago upon resuming his role as GM. I have not advocated firing people with less than two months left in the season, but you would have to admit that this is a systemic problem that goes back quite a while and now borders on tragi-comic. To pretend that this doesn't call for a greater sense of urgency to reassure the players and fans alike that they are fully focused on getting a better handle on this issue is burying one's head in the sand.

 

I've long believed that the medical staff needed an overhaul. The problem is that Ryan wasn't GM during that time...

 

I'd love to see the medical staff get the boot. But when you're new to the GM spot and have about 5,000 other things to worry about (like assembling a roster and determining strengthes/weaknesses of the org) before the season starts, it's impossible to do everything right off the bat. If I was in JR's spot, I'd also want some time to analyze what is wrong and where changes need to be made. All of that takes time and it's not as if Ryan has the time to sit down in the middle of the season, figure out who needs to go, interview capable candidates, and make a change. He's busy running a team, getting ready for the draft, making roster changes, etc. Now that the season is near an end, he might want to keep the current staff on just so he isn't rushed finding a new hire to replace them. After all, players still need these doctors on a daily basis. If you fire a guy, you better have a new guy on staff the next day. After this disaster, do you really want a decision like that to be rushed?

 

None of us know what is happening behind the scenes and while it may have filled an emotional need to see the entire staff fired last January, it wouldn't have been the intelligent thing to do.

 

Like most here, I'm all for sweeping changes to be made. The only difference is that I have a reasonable timeline in mind to do it. I'd love for it to have been done immediately but that probably wouldn't have been a good idea. These things take time. If big changes aren't made before Spring Training starts next season, I'll be the first in line complaining.

[Top Gun]

He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

 

He was busy running a Major League Baseball franchise. I doubt he has a ton of time to interview medical staff and determine their worth while preparing for the draft, making roster moves, trying to move guys at the deadline, and doing any number of other things required by a general manager, especially one of an awful team that is ping-ponging players up and down the system.

[jctwins]

He had all season and did nottin. A couple more season of nottin is still nottin. Maybe he should find more help to do nottin.

 

He was busy running a Major League Baseball franchise. I doubt he has a ton of time to interview medical staff and determine their worth while preparing for the draft, making roster moves, trying to move guys at the deadline, and doing any number of other things required by a general manager, especially one of an awful team that is ping-ponging players up and down the system.

 

I agree with everything you're saying. With that said, you'd think they could spend $100k to hire a consultant just to do an analysis and determine a course of action. The person would need medical expertise anyway.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I agree with everything you're saying. With that said, you'd think they could spend $100k to hire a consultant just to do an analysis and determine a course of action. The person would need medical expertise anyway.

 

I'd be surprised if it hasn't been done already and would consider it a failure on the part of JR and the front office. At the very least, they should have a guy "looking over the books", so to speak, to see where this franchise has gone wrong (assuming they've gone wrong at all).

[Top Gun]

The Pohlads can't be happy, I'm sure they are hearing it. The GM has committees of people helping him, it shouldn't take him long at all to decide what to do. It's time to wake up good old boy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Pohlads can't be happy, I'm sure they are hearing it. The GM has committees of people helping him, it shouldn't take him long at all to decide what to do. It's time to wake up good old boy.

 

I don't think I've ever seen an indication that the GM has a committee of medical experts available to give him feedback on the status of the ballclub.

 

Oh, wait, he does... It's called the "Twins Medical Staff", the very people so many want to see fired. If you want someone to fire their consultants, do you honestly expect them to have a second team of consultants to consult on the consultants' performance already on hand?

[Top Gun]

Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

 

It's not hard to find a medical expert to look through an entire organization, review medical documents thoroughly, evaluate the problem, recommend a solution, and find qualified candidates to replace the current staff? Really? That doesn't take long?

 

The point is that you don't make these moves quickly or you'll end up exactly where you began (or worse). It takes time to solve problems and going with a knee-jerk reaction rarely delivers the desired result.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Even with everything you are saying Brock, I highly doubt they go and fire the whole staff. This problem is a culture/management issue (at least from here), and I suspect they start at the top relieving the person in charge of them and bringing in someone who will change the culture. The rank and file that resist will go.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Even with everything you are saying Brock, I highly doubt they go and fire the whole staff. This problem is a culture/management issue (at least from here), and I suspect they start at the top relieving the person in charge of them and bringing in someone who will change the culture. The rank and file that resist will go.

 

I see that being the course of action as well. You put in a new lead and let that person decide what adjustments to make. The trick is finding out whether the old lead is the problem in the first place and finding a competent replacement who won't make the same mistakes. The way people on this forum talk about hiring and firing people leads me to believe they've never had to do it in their own profession. It's not as if you can just flip open the phone book and find "your guy" in a couple of minutes. Finding good employees is hard.

[powrwrap]

Don't try to be funny. It isn't that hard to find someone to look in to it, or to find someone to replace Span. This board and a fantasy teams has more brains than him. You make moves quickly or you end up in last place and the teams down the toliet for years to come.

 

It's not hard to find a medical expert to look through an entire organization, review medical documents thoroughly, evaluate the problem, recommend a solution, and find qualified candidates to replace the current staff? Really? That doesn't take long?

 

The point is that you don't make these moves quickly or you'll end up exactly where you began (or worse). It takes time to solve problems and going with a knee-jerk reaction rarely delivers the desired result.

 

Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

[Rosterman]

Happily, it seems, the Twins haven't needed this bench spot. Butera isn't playing. Casilla isn't getting played. Carson seems to be a decent bench guy. Hopefully Span is back in Minneapolis and the Twins save on the West Coast hotel room. But it doesn't really make sense, except when you ask "who should they promote." With Rochester and New Britain in the playoff hunt, you don't want to take their best players to sit on the bench (hopefully Blackburn pitching instead of Hendriks doesn't blow it for the Red Wings). Maybe if there was some grizzled oldtimer in the minors, you would do that. But right now, the Twins are playing with what they have...although it would be interesting to see what fun Arcia would have if he was promoted early.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

 

A completely sane and reasonable expectation. I was surprised that it took this long to get Pavano outside of the organization for review. After Baker, you'd think that's something they would have done in June.

 

A failing on the part of the front office? Possibly, maybe even likely.

[powrwrap]

Terry Ryan could send a message to the medical staff by requiring every diagnosis to be confirmed or denied by an outside medical professional. Get a 2nd opinion, or a 3rd one, if necessary. Pavano's actual injury was diagnosed by an outsider. I believe Scott Baker's was also. This isn't expensive, you don't have to hire anyone onto the staff, and the current medical staff gets the message that they are being watched. Then in the off season do a complete evaluation using the data gathered using these outside pros compared to your inside staff. How many times were the Twins doctors wrong? How many times were they right? Works for me.

 

Upon further review, based on new information, it seems this is exactly what the Twins did with Pavano:

 

New York specialist Dr. David Altchek said Pavano has a bruise on the humerus bone, an injury that likely would have recovered in a few weeks had he rested it. Instead, Pavano worked three months on rehabilitating what was believed to be a strained shoulder capsule.

Altchek saw every MRI the Twins did on Pavano during the season and concurred with their diagnosis. He even remarked in May that he noticed Pavano's shoulder gaining strength.

Twins Assistant General Manager Rob Antony admitted to being surprised by the new diagnosis on Tuesday.

"All along our doctors and Altchek have conferred on everything," Antony said. "To me, I'm not sure how many more medical opinions you can get on this guy, or more tests done or whatever, than we did."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/166993736.html?refer=y