GOT season six (spoilers galore)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Is that where Varys went? Dorne?

 

Brock, that's fair on Dorne. To the earlier point on the thread....it's just another place, far away, that is like a string that was pulled and is now not part of the story. 

 

I tend to think Varys went back to KL.  (I have book reasons for believing that)  But his mission is rather interesting.

[Brock Beauchamp]

He's playing the game of thrones. You either win or you die, and I think he dies.

I also think he dies but it is interesting how the Littlefinger/Varys showdown looked inevitable but now... Maybe not so much.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I tend to think Varys went back to KL.  (I have book reasons for believing that)  But his mission is rather interesting.

 

I have no idea how you all remember things from the books. I am completely unable to do that.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I have no idea how you all remember things from the books. I am completely unable to do that.

 

My read on them was rather recent.  Plus I have other nerdy friends, a lot of your questions are ones we've already had our own discussions about.  

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I also think he dies but it is interesting how the Littlefinger/Varys showdown looked inevitable but now... Maybe not so much.

 

 

I think Sansa does him in actually.  He's going to make a mistake based on his affection for her.  Just my guess. 

 

Varys though... he's the one who is solely unpredictable.  Serving the realm, but doing so while serving both sides... rather interesting.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I tend to think Varys went back to KL.  (I have book reasons for believing that)  But his mission is rather interesting.

Yeah, at the end of the books he and some little birds kill a character that's still alive in the series (note, that I haven't seen every episode, so I could be wrong if said character was killed off)... 

 

I'll leave it at that.

[gunnarthor]

 

An undead dragon that breathes ice.......I kind of hope not. I would like the story to remain about the characters, not become a D&D game that levels up and the DM has to keep piling more cool stuff on to make it challenging......which I can't believe I just typed, frankly. The world is sorely lacking in good high magic fantasy.

I'm not sure if there will be an ice dragon but I don't think Dany's three dragons will be the only dragons in the books.  The books have hinted that other dragons are buried in stone.  Other dragon eggs have been mentioned.  And the books have also mentioned other monsters - krakens, sphinxes, griffins, unicorns and merfolk.  Obviously, some of those references are to houses, not the monster, but some may be.    

 

In any event, I think the others will meet Drogon in a battle but they'll have to have something to even it out a bit - maybe magic?  

[gunnarthor]

 

At some point you need to do more than have old ladies tell stories about your big villain. Showing Hardhome (an event the books glossed over) was brilliant. We do need to know the enemy, not just have them show up largely out of the blue.

Technically, I'm not sure Hardhome has happened fully in the books yet - we know the others have killed many rangers but I think the full extent of Hardhome is supposed to be in the next book.  

 

But even without "seeing" it, we do (or will) get to see the POV characters reactions to it.  That's been pretty standard through out the books - we don't usually get an omnipotent POV, we just know what the POV characters know.  We know that the others are killing rangers b/c the very first chapter showed it and it's been a continuing thing.  The author doesn't need to show us the battles since we know the results.  So the books have shown us that there is a very dangerous enemy north of the wall but hasn't shown us much about them, which is certainly a different way to tell the story but I think is fairly effective.  

 

Hardhome was certainly very good TV.

[Mike Sixel]

Meh, killing a ranger here and there, North of a 1000 foot wall, is hardly the stuff of nightmares, imo. I think the books are underselling that part of the story (so we can read 1000* pages about a guy that dies the moment he sees a dragon......).

 

*slight exaggeration, I'm sure.........

[TheLeviathan]

Plus, rumors of ranger deaths do nothing to dispell the idea they are a myth. Having a POV character and many others was a major turning point. In the books, even most of the Watch doesn't believe in them as of the end of the last book.

[gunnarthor]

 

Meh, killing a ranger here and there, North of a 1000 foot wall, is hardly the stuff of nightmares, imo. I think the books are underselling that part of the story (so we can read 1000* pages about a guy that dies the moment he sees a dragon......).

 

*slight exaggeration, I'm sure.........

What, you don't believe the internet rumors that he's alive and it was the tattered prince on the death bed?  

[TheLeviathan]

Speaking of wasted time on princes, anyone else think the show has all but confirmed that fake Aegon is also nothing but another long winded dead end?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Speaking of wasted time on princes, anyone else think the show has all but confirmed that fake Aegon is also nothing but another long winded dead end?

Hey, don't forget Gendry. Whatever happened to that guy anyway? He just dropped off the map, didn't he?

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KudzuPlot

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hey, don't forget Gendry. Whatever happened to that guy anyway? He just dropped off the map, didn't he?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KudzuPlot

 

Still rowing.

 

Davos could've at least pointed his butt in the right direction....

[gunnarthor]

 

Still rowing.

 

Davos could've at least pointed his butt in the right direction....

Well, the show combined Edric Storm and Gendry.  In the book Gendry is at the inn near the trident protecting other orphans and Edric Storm was sent to the free cities.  On TV, Gendry was given that storyline.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

Well, the show combined Edric Storm and Gendry.  In the book Gendry is at the inn near the trident protecting other orphans and Edric Storm was sent to the free cities.  On TV, Gendry was given that storyline.  

 

I know, was just playing around,

 

I don't think he's important or will be important.  I think that may have been something GRRM changed his mind on mid-stream.

[gunnarthor]

 

Speaking of wasted time on princes, anyone else think the show has all but confirmed that fake Aegon is also nothing but another long winded dead end?

He's (almost certainly) a Blackfyre, not a Targaryian and he'll probably take over King's Landing before Dany gets there (the prophecy of the mummer's dragon being cheered by a crowd).  The only reason I have doubts is b/c Varys told Keven his origin and, since Keven was going to be killed, it made no sense to lie.  So, maybe his is Aegon or maybe Varys doesn't know - although I'm not sure how that would work.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I know, was just playing around,

 

I don't think he's important or will be important. I think that may have been something GRRM changed his mind on mid-stream.

Almost certainly. Gendry was a big plot point in A Game of Thrones and looked to be a key piece of Ned's plans.

[gunnarthor]

 

I know, was just playing around,

 

I don't think he's important or will be important.  I think that may have been something GRRM changed his mind on mid-stream.

When I was first reading the books I figured that he'd end up marrying Arya and link the two great houses. It's kind of fun going over the books and think, "oh, this will happen" just to see, "ohhh, nope." Usually followed by "oh, that dude is dead."  

[TheLeviathan]

 

He's (almost certainly) a Blackfyre, not a Targaryian and he'll probably take over King's Landing before Dany gets there (the prophecy of the mummer's dragon being cheered by a crowd).  The only reason I have doubts is b/c Varys told Keven his origin and, since Keven was going to be killed, it made no sense to lie.  So, maybe his is Aegon or maybe Varys doesn't know - although I'm not sure how that would work.

 

I think you're probably right.  But I think he basically gets smashed by Dany when she comes over.  So, for TV purposes, having her come over and take out the Lannisters instead makes for a much better story.  Having some fresh faced dude that we barely know take out the Lannisters, only to get promptly demolished doesn't work as well for me.

[Mike Sixel]

Dang, now you guys have me down a rat hole trying to remember all this stuff.....stupid internet and it's hundreds* of pages on GoT....

*understatement....

[gunnarthor]

 

Dang, now you guys have me down a rat hole trying to remember all this stuff.....stupid internet and it's hundreds* of pages on GoT....

*understatement....

While you're in that rat hole, check out the Jojen paste theory, the Eldritch Apocalypse theory and read the new chapter that was released.  

[TheLeviathan]

I actually agree about the Jojen paste theory.....I'm less convinced about Euron.  And if it is true, we could probably do with less catastrophic coming apocalypses.  If you need more than one, you're probably not selling any of them well enough.  That or you're threatening to nuke what's left from a meteor.  At some point it's just like "meh"

[diehardtwinsfan]

speaking of GRRM... rumor has it the book might be on a lot of Christmas lists...

 

http://www.jobsnhire.com/articles/44137/20160620/winds-winter-release-date-final-author-george-rr-martin-finishing.htm

 

Though I for some reason thought there was another book coming out after WoW.

[Mike Sixel]

Great googly moogly.....don't mix Lovecraft into ASoIF....

[TheLeviathan]

 

speaking of GRRM... rumor has it the book might be on a lot of Christmas lists...

 

http://www.jobsnhire.com/articles/44137/20160620/winds-winter-release-date-final-author-george-rr-martin-finishing.htm

 

Though I for some reason thought there was another book coming out after WoW.

 

Hmmm, this isn't being widely reported.  I mean, I hope this happens.  But I also hope if he's just finishing his last chapter that the editor spends at least 6-8 months cleaning it up.  

 

The last two books eliminated any wiggle room he has on that front.

[jimmer]

I just checked....Jon Snow still knows nothing :-)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Hmmm, this isn't being widely reported.  I mean, I hope this happens.  But I also hope if he's just finishing his last chapter that the editor spends at least 6-8 months cleaning it up.  

 

The last two books eliminated any wiggle room he has on that front.

At this point, it's probably too late for editing to save the series. Martin needs to start tying together story threads or the mess will continue and editing can't tell him what to write, it can only alter what he has already written (unless the editor has the power to force a complete re-write, which is highly unlikely at this point).

 

If editing was going to save the series, it needed to happen in book four. That's when things went off the rails and Martin started world-masturbating. Before that point, he had plenty of time to handle the still large but manageable number of storylines running through the books.

 

If Martin spends book six working on the white walker threat, tying together the Iron Islands, Dorne, Gendry, fake Aegon, and the entire north storyline, book seven could still be great.

 

In other words, I don't expect much from book six but if Martin smartly starts reeling in past mistakes, it could lead to an amazing book seven.

 

When I started reading book three, I started worrying that Martin was going to fall into a common writer trap, one occasionally displayed by even some great writers like Stephen King; thousands of pages of discordia wrapped up with a series-ending deus ex machina in the final 5-10% of the book/series. Thus far, Martin has only fueled that concern.

 

But it's not too late to fix it, I'm just not sure he realizes it's a problem... Though with how well the show has played out in season six, I hope that was a wake-up call to him.

[TheLeviathan]

 

When I started reading book three, I started worrying that Martin was going to fall into a common writer trap, one occasionally displayed by even some great writers like Stephen King; thousands of pages of discordia wrapped up with a series-ending deus ex machina in the final 5-10% of the book/series. Thus far, Martin has only fueled that concern.

 

Book 4 is where the Dark Tower also started to spin off the rails.....trilogies man, just stick with a trilogy!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Book 4 is where the Dark Tower also started to spin off the rails.....trilogies man, just stick with a trilogy!

Yep, but King managed to reel it in... Now, he reeled it in by using the most bizarre mechanism possible (himself), but he reeled it in.

 

Normally, I would despise what King did in later books of the Dark Tower but it was such a fascinating character examination that I was all on board. Was it the best story element? No, not at all. It was questionable at best... But damn, watching King eviscerate himself on the written page was some pretty engaging stuff. I spent large parts of books 5-7 in complete bewilderment, but in a (mostly) good way.

 

My least favorite part of the series wasn't the King section, it was the death of Flagg. It felt so punchless after that character was such a menace throughout the earlier books. Maybe King meant it to be punchless but I still didn't like the decision.