GOT season six (spoilers galore)

[TheLeviathan]

Yup, worst literary boss battle ever.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

 

But it's not too late to fix it, I'm just not sure he realizes it's a problem... 

Well, a very sizeable chunk of readers don't agree with you.  He's already stated that he thinks there might be two more books (after TWOW).  So I think the next book will introduce several new characters and locations - including Willis Tyrell, Oldtown, the Stormlands.  I imagine the Dornish sections will be large with chapters focusing on Arianne and "Aegon."  And it looks like the Greyjoys are playing a bigger part than the books had previously suggested.  

 

My guess is that TWOW ends with the wall falling when someone blows the horn of winter, which should be fun.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm sure many readers agree that things are fine, but I think some objective perspective helps see that he created some major initial problems and he's struggled with the narrative since then.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well, a very sizeable chunk of readers don't agree with you.

Sure, but people also watched crap like Grimm for five seasons.

 

Not that I'm comparing ASoIaF to Grimm. Grimm was ****ing terrible while ASoIaF is quite good.

 

I'm hard on the books but only because they're *so close* to being great. Overall, the series is quite good (A Game of Thrones is possibly the finest fantasy novel I've ever read, even better than Tolkien... and A Storm of Swords isn't far behind it) but that only makes the failures more aggravating.

 

Being critical of something doesn't mean it's bad... If the series was truly bad, I'd say "that was ****ing horrible" and get on with my day. The fact I care about the series means it's doing something right (in this case, many things).

 

A Storm of Swords was the last really good book written in the series. It was published in the year 2000. That's approaching 20 years ago.

 

I love Star Wars. LOVE IT. Combined, I've seen the seven SW movies approximately 1,000 times (not exaggerating). I've read at least 75 Star Wars novels and hundreds (if not thousands) of Star Wars comics.

 

But that doesn't mean I give Lucas a pass for the prequels. In fact, I'm harder on them because the others were so good. He convinced me to love something, to invest my emotion into his world, and then royally screwed the pooch.

[jimmer]

 

. Overall, the series is quite good (A Game of Thrones is possibly the finest fantasy novel I've ever read, even better than Tolkien...

Blasphemy!  I can't even look at you right now  :-)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Blasphemy!  I can't even look at you right now  :-)

What can I say? A Game of Thrones is a really ****ing good book.

 

But I also adore Tolkien so six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Mike Sixel]

A lot of LotR suffers from boringness........a lot......

 

Brock (or others), have you read The Lies of Locke Lamora? Great book.....book 2 is good, book 3 is between ok and good....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Brock (or others), have you read The Lies of Locke Lamora? Great book.....book 2 is good, book 3 is between ok and good....

No, I haven't read it. I haven't read a ton of fantasy... I've read quite a bit but science fiction has always been my preferred genre. I have some pretty big gaps in fantasy.

 

I know more about fantasy from reading tabletop RPG books than novels. 

[jimmer]

 

A lot of LotR suffers from boringness........a lot......

 

 

If you haven't seen Clerks II, you should.  There's a discussion about Star Wars VS Lord of the Rings trilogies.  Based on your post, you'll love it.

[Mike Sixel]

Lies of Locke Lamora is a great book, with little "fantasy" in it. It is also on sale on Google Play for 1.99 right now......

[gunnarthor]

Well, that was a surprisingly fun finale.  Cercei sitting on the Iron Throne, Arya killing Walder Frey (and baking pies), North uniting and Dany heading to Westeros.  Pretty darn good.

[kydoty]

Tommen had one hell of a Kings Landing.

[jimmer]

I liked that episode more than last episode.  For me, it's one of my favorite episodes ever.  Great season ender.  Is it next year yet?

[TheLeviathan]

That was a really good episode.  They tied together so many plots!  The Tyrells, Martells, Greyjoys, Unsullied, and the Khalasaar all escorting Dany and her dragons to Westeros is really satisfying.  How in the hell can the Lannisters fight off a force that size?  It's going to have to be an absolute butt-kicking right?

 

Not to mention that the entire south is basically without heirs - the Baratheons, Tyrells, and Martells all have basically had their lines wiped off the planet.  Freys, Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers are on that list too.  And the Arryns and Lannisters may not be far behind.  Suddenly the Starks are looking alright.....

 

So here are my lingering questions/thoughts:

 

1) Benjen talked about the magic that keeps the wall up and the White Walkers out.  Is it the same magic the Three-Eyed Raven used at his tree?  If so, is Bran basically the Night King's free pass into Westeros if he passes the wall?

 

Also, what good is Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven at this point?  We know Jon is a Targ now, but where does that go?

 

2) What's Arya's next stop?  To see Jon or to cross Cersei off her list?

 

3) Littlefinger won't abide by Jon and Dany rising up to take what he thinks is his, so what's next for his schemes?

 

4) Melisandre joins Dany's crew?  Or what's her purpose now?

 

5) Euron has to be the one to try and bail out Cersei right?  Otherwise how the hell can any force stand against what Dany is bringing across?

[gunnarthor]

 

That was a really good episode.  They tied together so many plots!  The Tyrells, Martells, Greyjoys, Unsullied, and the Khalasaar all escorting Dany and her dragons to Westeros is really satisfying.  How in the hell can the Lannisters fight off a force that size?  It's going to have to be an absolute butt-kicking right?

 

Not to mention that the entire south is basically without heirs - the Baratheons, Tyrells, and Martells all have basically had their lines wiped off the planet.  Freys, Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers are on that list too.  And the Arryns and Lannisters may not be far behind.  Suddenly the Starks are looking alright.....

 

So here are my lingering questions/thoughts:

 

1) Benjen talked about the magic that keeps the wall up and the White Walkers out.  Is it the same magic the Three-Eyed Raven used at his tree?  If so, is Bran basically the Night King's free pass into Westeros if he passes the wall?

 

Also, what good is Bran as the Three-Eyed Raven at this point?  We know Jon is a Targ now, but where does that go?

 

2) What's Arya's next stop?  To see Jon or to cross Cersei off her list?

 

3) Littlefinger won't abide by Jon and Dany rising up to take what he thinks is his, so what's next for his schemes?

 

4) Melisandre joins Dany's crew?  Or what's her purpose now?

 

5) Euron has to be the one to try and bail out Cersei right?  Otherwise how the hell can any force stand against what Dany is bringing across?

Yeah, the South is pretty much destroyed and if the Martells and Tyrells are teaming up with Dany, Cercei is SOL.  And Jaime didn't look pleased at all.  

 

1) I don't think Bran let the Night's King pass - the wall will have to come down (it will).  Probably in the last episode of next season.  I'm pretty sure Bran will warg into a dragon at some point.  

 

2) I have no idea what they are doing with Arya.  Her killing Walder Frey was fun but sort of out of the blue.  I've stopped guessing on her character arc.  

 

3) I figure Littlefinger kills off sweetrobin and somehow becomes Head of House Arryn (isn't that his plan in the books?).  Maybe he offers to marry Cercei in exchange for the Vale's forces against Dany?  

 

4) No idea.  Absolutely none.

 

5) He probably has a big role to play next season but I'm not sure what it is.  Maybe he hits her on the water and sinks a bunch of her Dorthraki warriors so she's not completely unbeatable?  

[Mike Sixel]

I thought the episode was super well written and directed. The whole time in King's Landing, even though you knew what was coming was great. The lighting the acting the music, all great. I did not expect both Margery and Tommen to die.....

 

This episode had those small moments I was "complaining" about last week for sure. It was really, really well done.

 

Other than Sansa bailing on the North.....it looks like my prediction of the women ruling the houses is coming largely true. 

 

However, it is looking more and more like a traditional western fantasy, with a big magic fight at the end where all the good guys win.....w/o much doubt about them winning. While I still expect small surprises here and there....I am wondering if there are any big surprises left.

 

I hope to be wrong on that. I hope Littlefinger does something smart (in the books, he's so much smarter than on the tv show, sigh) and cunning and unexpected. 

 

If there is 1 season left, I would have closed with the night king crossing the wall, not a hero shot of Dany (who I had started to become bored with, but her talk with Tyrion made her more human again).

[TheLeviathan]

I think Dany conquering Westeros while the North tries to defend the Wall is next season.  The defense at the Wall fails and Dany has to come north to help.  

 

But you were spot on about the women Mike, good call.  

[jimmer]

 

 

2) I have no idea what they are doing with Arya.  Her killing Walder Frey was fun but sort of out of the blue.  I've stopped guessing on her character arc.  

 

 

I didn't think Arya killing Walder Frey was out of the blue.   He would have been extremely high on her list and with girls always serving him it was set up for him to go down.  I expected it and was waiting for it.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think Dany conquering Westeros while the North tries to defend the Wall is next season.  The defense at the Wall fails and Dany has to come north to help.  

 

But you were spot on about the women Mike, good call.  

 

That makes sense, really.

 

I think my biggest bummer last night was not seeing the night king and his army approaching the wall....with some hint they could cross it. I mean, if they can't cross it, what threat are they? 

 

A horn, some magic item, something.

 

Actually, the worst part was Varys going back and forth that fast. I imagine that part of the books will be a lot better.

 

Does it matter that Margery was faking it, if she was just going to die a month after getting out? I don't know.....I'll miss her. One of the smarter leads, imo.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

Does it matter that Margery was faking it, if she was just going to die a month after getting out? I don't know.....I'll miss her. One of the smarter leads, imo.

I'll miss Margery because she's hot. Her smirk makes me feel kind of funny ;-)

[TheLeviathan]

 

That makes sense, really.

 

I think my biggest bummer last night was not seeing the night king and his army approaching the wall....with some hint they could cross it. I mean, if they can't cross it, what threat are they? 

 

A horn, some magic item, something.

 

Actually, the worst part was Varys going back and forth that fast. I imagine that part of the books will be a lot better.

 

Does it matter that Margery was faking it, if she was just going to die a month after getting out? I don't know.....I'll miss her. One of the smarter leads, imo.

 

I agree, a bone to the White Walkers would've been wise.

 

And I think the tease with the rose was to get us to think she had a plan and the way she talked to the Septon makes me think she did.  And Tommen was in on it.  But Cersei outfoxed them all and whatever schemes Margery was working were irrelevant after that.  

 

And the flexibility with time and travel this season was hard to ignore.  They were playing very fast and loose.  But my wife brought up a good point....so you stretch out some of those travels - then what?  Do we need to see Jon and company riding sulkenly through the snow?  Or Varys sitting on a ship?

 

I think given the choice between a fast and loose scheme for time/distance and dragging things out - I choose fast and loose.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'll miss Margery because she's hot. Her smirk makes me feel kind of funny ;-)

 

yes, a very beautiful woman for sure.

[jimmer]

We have no idea how much time passed between when Varys left Mereen, had his visit in Dorne, and returned.  We can't assume each part of each show is happening on the same timeline.  They could be days or weeks apart even though they are in the same episode.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I agree, a bone to the White Walkers would've been wise.

 

And I think the tease with the rose was to get us to think she had a plan and the way she talked to the Septon makes me think she did.  And Tommen was in on it.  But Cersei outfoxed them all and whatever schemes Margery was working were irrelevant after that.  

 

And the flexibility with time and travel this season was hard to ignore.  They were playing very fast and loose.  But my wife brought up a good point....so you stretch out some of those travels - then what?  Do we need to see Jon and company riding sulkenly through the snow?  Or Varys sitting on a ship?

 

I think given the choice between a fast and loose scheme for time/distance and dragging things out - I choose fast and loose.

 

That's all fair. I think in the books, where he can take time on some of this, those parts will read better.

 

To you and jimmer.....we do have no idea when things are happening, that's true.....but I just felt the Varys thing was a bit off. 

[gunnarthor]

I forgot to mention but the best part of the episode was how the show's theme music played (slowly at first) when the Northerners made Jon king in the north.  That music is awesome.

[Mike Sixel]

The music was awesome the entire episode. It should win some award just for that, imo.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And the flexibility with time and travel this season was hard to ignore.  They were playing very fast and loose.  But my wife brought up a good point....so you stretch out some of those travels - then what?  Do we need to see Jon and company riding sulkenly through the snow?  Or Varys sitting on a ship?

 

I think given the choice between a fast and loose scheme for time/distance and dragging things out - I choose fast and loose.

Yep, sometimes - particularly in a story this large - it's best to just ignore travel and timelines if it gets in the way of the story. In a perfect world you wouldn't have to do that but there were too many dangling threads to escape it in this world.

 

Think about The Empire Strikes Back. The Falcon has no hyperdrive and is using sublight to get to Bespin. Boba Fett is following. Luke is training on Dagobah.

 

It doesn't make a lick of sense... But no one cares because showing travel time and/or explaining away why Boba Fett doesn't call the Executioner to pick up the Falcon is a waste of time. That sequence may be the biggest plot hole in all of Star Wars but no one noticed because what was happening on-screen was so damned interesting.

 

Sometimes, it's better to push reality to the side and just get on with things.

[Brock Beauchamp]

As for this episode, wow.

 

I didn't think it was possible for GoT to get me back on board this completely. After the last few seasons, I only watched the show when I got around to it... After this season, I can't wait to see more.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not asking them to show LotR scenes of walking and running thru the mountains......no one needs more of that, imo.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm not asking them to show LotR scenes of walking and running thru the mountains......no one needs more of that, imo.

I agree that I'd like to see a *little* more consistency IF the series had better managed seasons four and five.

 

Go back to the end of season three, rearrange a few pieces, delete a few others, and you'd have a more leisurely pace in which to address all these plot points.

 

But that didn't happen. I'd prefer to see them fix as many "errors" as possible now, timelines be damned, and set up the show for the biggest finale possible.

 

The alternative is to have a slow creep of Dorne, King's Landing, Highgarden, and all that political crap into season seven. They got it all out of the way in (almost) a single episode and hats off to them for it.

 

The show needed to set itself up for the end game. They've now accomplished that goal and that means we get to focus on the demise/triumph of every character, not more political intrigue and alliance-building/breaking. All that **** is out of the way and that's a good thing.