The Bench

[Brock Beauchamp]

There is nothing wrong with putting a guy on waivers. Nunez and Santana are redundant. They both have essentially the same skills and are average at best at those skills. The Twins decided to keep both anyway. At least Quentin would have brought something a little different than those two.

Well, then you have to put Santana on waivers because he can't be relied upon as an injury back up. Are you prepared to do that?

[jorgenswest]

I think the Twins could have made a different decision about the bench in the winter. They can't really change it up now.

 

As a side, the decision to construct this bench will make it more difficult to go to 13 pitchers. A decision to go to 13 pitchers and reducing the bench by one will expose Arcia, Nunez or Santana to waivers. I guess they could theoretically option Sano, Buxton, Park or Rosario for a 13th pitcher. That doesn't seem very practical.

[kab21]

 

There is nothing wrong with putting a guy on waivers. Nunez and Santana are redundant. They both have essentially the same skills and are average at best at those skills. The Twins decided to keep both anyway. At least Quentin would have brought something a little different than those two.

Nunez and Santana are actually nothing alike and possess very different skills.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Nunez and Santana are actually nothing alike and possess very different skills.

How so?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Well, then you have to put Santana on waivers because he can't be relied upon as an injury back up. Are you prepared to do that?

*hesitates*

 

Well, to make the best use of a top farm system, there will need to be a path for the younger guys to reach the majors. Ryan will need to be a little more proactive in moving guys while they have value. Ideally trading them while they have value. My gut tells me the Hicks trade will work out. Even without Hicks, the path for Kepler is unclear.

 

Does that answer your question?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

*hesitates*

Well, to make the best use of a top farm system, there will need to be a path for the younger guys to reach the majors. Ryan will need to be a little more proactive in moving guys while they have value. Ideally trading them while they have value. My gut tells me the Hicks trade will work out. Even without Hicks, the path for Kepler is unclear.

Does that answer your question?

No, but I get the gist of it.

 

It's a tough call. If someone believes releasing Santana is the right move, that's a viable option... But I've seen a lot of people suggest Nunez is the expendable one and that simply *is not* the case.

 

Danny Santana was possibly the worst player in all of baseball last season. He can't be Option B on a team with aspirations of postseason glory.

 

It's a tough call. I don't mind the route the Twins took but I can see the argument for releasing Santana... Though I'd prefer to let Polanco get some appearances, grade how Santana looks, and then consider releasing Nunez in late May or June.

[kab21]

 

How so?

The better question should be how are they alike.  Nunez is a better hitter and a very different kind of hitter.  Nunez isn't nearly as good of a defender as Santana (at least Santana's tools) although he is capable at SS/2B.  Santana fills the important role of backup CF but has never played 3B (and very little 2B).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The better question should be how are they alike.  Nunez is a better hitter and a very different kind of hitter.  Nunez isn't nearly as good of a defender as Santana (at least Santana's tools) although he is capable at SS/2B.  Santana fills the important role of backup CF but has never played 3B (and very little 2B).

There is some truth to this. I admit I wasn't thinking of Santana's experience in CF. Though I think if Buxton needed a couple days off you might see Rosario out there. Otherwise I still feel Nunez and Santana bring similar skills, though at different stages in their career. They are most similar to each other even if you include Arcia (lefty bat and experienced 4th outfielder) and Quentin (very good right hand bench bat) to make it a group of four. We can disagree.

[d-mac]

 

Dude, he produced at basically that same level lllllaaaasssttt season. The numbers are right there in the post you quoted.

 

OPS of .610 last year. That's not basically the same level as his career. 

[d-mac]

 

Zuke has an OK line as a Twin (.666 OPS, 85 OPS+) and it is much better than that vs. LH pitching. Let's not ignore the good to emphasize the bad. I don't want to argue to eternity about a player I am not that fond of, but he is a legit major league player who was pretty good just two years ago. In this thread, people have been asking for Quentin, who hasn't been good for a lot longer than Suzuki and Santana who was way worse last year than the Twins catcher.

 

Based on his production from 2012 on, the first half of 2014 seems like a complete outlier. I doubt he'll reach that production ever again in his career.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

OPS of .610 last year. That's not basically the same level as his career. 

Come on. You're not even reading what I'm writing.

 

Kurt Suzuki was facing a left-handed pitcher.

 

Kurt Suzuki and Eduardo Nunez are essentially the same hitter against left-handed pitching, both in their careers and the 2015 season.

 

I'm not even sure why you're arguing with me and quoted my post. That's all I said.

[d-mac]

 

Come on. You're not even reading what I'm writing.

 

Kurt Suzuki was facing a left-handed pitcher.

 

Kurt Suzuki and Eduardo Nunez are essentially the same hitter against left-handed pitching, both in their careers and the 2015 season.

 

I'm not even sure why you're arguing with me and quoted my post. That's all I said.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought we had moved from talking about career splits to their full 2015 season stats. Either way, Nunez has slightly better career splits against LHP than Suzuki, not much of a difference, I'll give you that. But based on age I think that going forward Nunez has significant enough of chance to out-hit Suzuki vs LHP. And if you are going to bring in Nunez to run for Suzuki, then why not just let him hit for Suzuki. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought we had moved from talking about career splits to their full 2015 season stats. Either way, Nunez has slightly better career splits against LHP than Suzuki, not much of a difference, I'll give you that. But based on age I think that going forward Nunez has significant enough of chance to out-hit Suzuki vs LHP. And if you are going to bring in Nunez to run for Suzuki, then why not just let him hit for Suzuki. 

Against LHP, Suzuki has a slightly better OBP. In that situation, it wasn't a bad call... But yeah, the pinch-running move made less sense. If you're going to pinch-run, why not pinch-hit?

 

If it's a RHP, that should be a no-brainer decision. You go to Arcia almost every time, maybe Nunez on occasion.

[kab21]

 

There is some truth to this. I admit I wasn't thinking of Santana's experience in CF. Though I think if Buxton needed a couple days off you might see Rosario out there. Otherwise I still feel Nunez and Santana bring similar skills, though at different stages in their career. They are most similar to each other even if you include Arcia (lefty bat and experienced 4th outfielder) and Quentin (very good right hand bench bat) to make it a group of four. We can disagree.

You really haven't said how they are similar.  

 

Santana is on the roster because of his OF defense.  Nunez is on the roster because he is a steadier player that can fill in anywhere (almost) and not kill the team.

 

And is this really about Quentin who hasn't hit (and barely played) since 2013?  

[jorgenswest]

The Twins need at least one guy to back up at SS and 2B. Santana and Nunez are similar in that they can both fill that role. They are different from each other as well as different from Denny Hocking, Nick Punto and Jamey Carroll.

 

The Twins and most teams need a bench that can fill the following roles.

 

Back up catcher.

Back up 2B/SS

Back up CF

Pinch run

Left handed bat

Right handed bat

 

Both players can tick several of those boxes. The question is whether the Twins need some of those boxes ticked in multiple ways at the expense of a better bat. Can the two players at least be described as redundant?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

You really haven't said how they are similar.  

 

Santana is on the roster because of his OF defense.  Nunez is on the roster because he is a steadier player that can fill in anywhere (almost) and not kill the team.

 

And is this really about Quentin who hasn't hit (and barely played) since 2013?  

The previous poster said it better than I could. I grant you there are differences. Even as pinch runners, you might see Plouffe replaced only with Nunez, who can stay in the game to play 3B, and Santana can enter a game in CF if Buxton comes out of a game, which ironically is not likely given the construction of the bench and Molitor's tendency not to use pinch hitters.

 

I would call Nunez third string 3B behind Plouffe and Sano, and Santana as third string CF behind Buxton and Rosario, maybe even behind Mastroianni. We already have backups at those positions. If a middle infielder went on the DL, I would like to see Polanco called up, though I suppose either Nunez or Santana could fill in or trade off for a couple weeks.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

What the hell does Arcia have to do to get an at bat?

[kab21]

Just great people are advocating a Sano/Rosario/Arcia starting OF on days that Buxton needs a day off.

 

Did Sano play at 3B at all during spring training?  I find it unlikely that Sano will be getting occasional spot starts at 3B this year.