Freese Signs for 1 Year, 3 Million

[RedBull34]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/03/pirates-sign-david-freese.html#comments

 

I don't think there was any market for Plouffe at all.

 

Can we make it official:  Plouffe is now the new Duensing for trade scenario's (A player that is thought to have a market but in reality doesn't)?

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/03/pirates-sign-david-freese.html#comments

 

I don't think there was any market for Plouffe at all.

 

Can we make it official:  Plouffe is now the new Duensing for trade scenario's (A player that is thought to have a market but in reality doesn't)?

 

 

Alright.  Here is another way to state this: 

 

If someone can have Freese with a career 112 OPS+ and 109 OPS+ in 2015, why trade for Plouffe with a career 99 OPS+ and 99 OPS+ in 2015.

 

Step further:

 

If you are a GM why the hey would you offer and agree on $7.25M arbitration with Trevor Plouffe, if you can have Freeze for $3M  (and have $4.25M left to sign a real reliever.) 

 

Wonder what this says about Ryan and his chief contact negotiation/GM in waiting

 

[RedBull34]

 

Alright.  Here is another way to state this: 

 

If someone can have Freese with a career 112 OPS+ and 109 OPS+ in 2015, why trade for Plouffe with a career 99 OPS+ and 99 OPS+ in 2015.

 

Step further:

 

If you are a GM why the hey would you offer and agree on $7.25M arbitration with Trevor Plouffe, if you can have Freeze for $3M  (and have $4.25M left to sign a real reliever.) 

 

Wonder what this says about Ryan and his chief contact negotiation/GM in waiting

THAT is a better question. 

 

It seems that a lot of GM's (admittedly TR is an above average offender) will offer contracts to guy's in their last year or so of arb even though it isn't a bargain. (Duensing)

 

I assume it has something to do with control and stability.

 

BUT

 

The Twins could have had Freese and Bastardo for Plouffe's Salary + 2 Mil.

 

BUT

 

It wasn't apparent Freese would be available for so cheap (to me anyways)

 

 

[gunnarthor]

OPS+ of course doesn't tell the whole story.  Plouffe was the better player and should be the better player again this year.  That said, I'm really surprised Freese got so little. 

[DocBauer]

THAT is a better question. 

 

It seems that a lot of GM's (admittedly TR is an above average offender) will offer contracts to guy's in their last year or so of arb even though it isn't a bargain. (Duensing)

 

I assume it has something to do with control and stability.

 

BUT

 

The Twins could have had Freese and Bastardo for Plouffe's Salary + 2 Mil.

 

BUT

 

It wasn't apparent Freese would be available for so cheap (to me anyways)

Agreed. Bastardo signed for about what I thought, once it became apparent his price was coming down.

 

I can't say I'm a big fan of Freese, but he is a solid player. He signed a whole lot later and for whole lot less than I expected. But who could have predicted this with certainty. Additionally, buy in or not, but I think there is something about sticking with the guy you know sometimes. I think there is value in that.

[Thrylos]

 

OPS+ of course doesn't tell the whole story.  Plouffe was the better player and should be the better player again this year.  That said, I'm really surprised Freese got so little. 

 

So, better player based on what?  I gave an objective metric.  I'd love to see your objective metric, other than your subjective opinion...

 

Let me know if you have one...

(fWAR has Plouffe at 2.5 and Freese and 2.2,  and bWAR at 2.5 vs 2.3, which is a wash...)

[Willihammer]

Most projections like Plouffe to hit better in 2016. He is 3 years younger, has +1 year of control. He's probably at least as good of a glove. He's a liked guy in the clubhouse. I can understand the argument that Sano should have taken over but the Twins should not shipping away players like Plouffe for a bag of balls and $4m.

[RedBull34]

 

Most projections like Plouffe to hit better in 2016. He is 3 years younger, has +1 year of control. He's probably at least as good of a glove. He's a liked guy in the clubhouse. I can understand the argument that Sano should have taken over but the Twins should not shipping away players like Plouffe for a bag of balls and $4m.

Fair enough.  However if you were a team (let's say the Pirates) and needed a 3B, would you have traded anything for Plouffe or signed Freese?

 

I personally would have signed Freese.

[jimmer]

Plouffe's WAR the last two year: 6.1, Freese: 4.3.  Freese is very soon to be 33. Plouffe turns 30 this season.

[RedBull34]

Plouffe is projected for a 250/315/420 Line with varying returns on his D (I'm inclined to go for the positive side +3 Runs)

 

Freese is projected for a 255/320/390 Line with varying returns on his D (although they tend to be more negative.  apprx. -3 Runs)

 

The Difference in the bat is not huge.  There is a decent difference for their gloves but nothing huge.

 

Plouffe is the better player, but I just can't see any team trading a "B" Prospect for Plouffe when Freese is so readily available.

[bird]

If a poll were taken of managers and coaches who have seen Freeze and Plouffe play over the past two years, does anyone really think Freeze would get any votes as the better of the two? Especially looking forward to the 2016 season?

 

Raise your hand if you honestly think Freeze is going to produce more than Plouffe in 2016. Thought so. 

 

Should Terry Ryan have limited his arbitration offer to Plouffe to $3M? If so, on what basis? A glance into a crystal ball?

 

Is criticism of the offer to Plouffe based on what Freeze just signed for grasping for an excuse to be critical perhaps? The two events simply aren't connected in any remotely meaningful way.

[Rosterman]

Which showcases the problem with Plouffe. He still ahs some worth to the Twins at his current arbitration salary. They know him and have a good idea of what to expect of him. He may retain or increase value during the season. But the tell is what to do come season's end and his arbitration salary will push the $10 million mark. Is he worth it. Is he worth it to another team. If not to another team for a future signing, then what kind of worth do you get in trade for someone who might just be cut. Of course, he may tear the cover off the ball and the Twins wished they signed him for $33 million over three years with a 4th year option.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Should Terry Ryan have limited his arbitration offer to Plouffe to $3M? If so, on what basis? A glance into a crystal ball?

 

Is criticism of the offer to Plouffe based on what Freeze just signed for grasping for an excuse to be critical perhaps? The two events simply aren't connected in any remotely meaningful way.

Agreed.

 

I don't think anyone expected Freese to sign so cheaply either, I'm not going to blame a GM for not anticipating that.

 

That said, going forward, the Freese deal should put a damper on Plouffe extension talks, and probably even give us pause about an even higher arb salary for him in 2017 (pending 2016 results, of course).