racism is a "big problem" - CNN

[gunnarthor]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/us/racism-problem-cnn-kff-poll/index.html

 

Interesting poll by cnn/kaiser which found that 43% of whites think racism is a big problem and nearly two-thirds of blacks and hispanics do too.

 

The article noted the number of police shootings around the country, the racial strife in campus in Oklahoma but also at Duke (and could have mentioned Yale and Harvard).

 

"Gauging changes in racial attitudes is complicated, says Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a professor of sociology at Duke University. Bonilla-Silva has a phrase he uses to describe the situation he sees today: "new racism."  

"After the 1960s and early 1970s, somehow we developed the mythology that systemic racism disappeared," he says. Racism remained, according to Bonilla-Silva, but became more covert."

 

The article also discusses how some people can see racism while others don't - something that came up here at TD a few times with our view of Torii Hunter.

 

""Is the guy out or safe? Well, it depends who you're rooting for," [said Professor Adams]. "Sometimes it's clear in either direction, but we tend to see it how we want to see it."

It's likely the level of racism in the United States is more or less the same, Adams says. "What's changed," he says, "is that more people are aware of it." Knowledge of history, having friends who've experienced racism and personal background are all factors that can contribute to a greater awareness of racism."

[Craig Arko]

The situation in Minneapolis is pretty bad, too.

[TheLeviathan]

The north Minneapolis situation is a microcosm of a lot of problems we have right now.  We have deep and justified mistrust in olice by one community as well as a a police force tasked with the near impossible.  We have a bad situation made worse by a rush to determine what happened without facts and an investigation union driven that has little interest in much more than protecting the cops.  

 

And that ****-storm and others like it are the framework for most of our racial conversations today.  Ugh.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

The north Minneapolis situation is a microcosm of a lot of problems we have right now. We have deep and justified mistrust in olice by one community as well as a a police force tasked with the near impossible. We have a bad situation made worse by a rush to determine what happened without facts and an investigation union driven that has little interest in much more than protecting the cops.

 

And that ****-storm and others like it are the framework for most of our racial conversations today. Ugh.

Nailed it.

[drjim]

I don't want to comment too much on what people think are and are not big problems, what people think is legitimate.

 

My thought on racism in general is that the country is the least racist it has ever been and will almost certainly continue that trend.

 

What I think we are seeing is historically oppressed groups rising up and attempting to challenge this oppression. That is a good thing but also a messy thing and a destabilizing thing.

 

People are feeling uncomfortable, insecure and uncertain about the future in ways that they haven't in a while and traditional structures are much less stable (as they should be). This insecurity plays well to media companies that are desparate for ratings/clicks and have no incentive to be fair. The ability to take and spread video adds to that as well.

[formerly33]

Regardless of whether racism is at a record low in this country, there's enough of it (which translates to too much of it).

 

Just read comments on articles about black crime. "This is why there's still racism in the United States" is a classic (and might I add mild?) example of these.

 

Sure, it's just the typical multitude of *******s taking advantage of the present day's resources which enable them to show the world their idiocy, but...was any bigot at any point in time anything more than that?

 

Brock once shared a story about how he is frequently followed by police while out motorcycling. I was skeptical at first and found his conclusion that this behavior is rooted in racism to be a bit far fetched, but now I'll concede that he has a point. A very good point. Two months ago when I was in the car with some other family members on the way home from Duluth, my brother made a comment about how we were drag racing with the car in the left lane. It's not that we really were, but we were side by side for quite a while, probably going about 65-70 mph in a 60 zone. We ended up pulling ahead, and just as we were doing so, a horn honked aggressively behind us and then we momentarily heard sirens as a state patrol pulled over the other driver. It could have been for anything...who knows? Obviously not speeding as we were right there and going faster (and the cop changed lanes from behind us), but...there's a lot of things it could have been. Like I said, anything.

 

And the driver was black.

 

Just sayin'.

[stringer bell]

I'm a white man who grew up in an all-white village and really didn't meet another black person until I went to college. I have made the acquainance of several black people and have compared notes enough to see that their perception of events is often far different than mine. Ferguson, Baltimore, Cleveland and now Chicago, going back as far as the OJ trial shows that intelligent people can look at the same situation and see different things.

 

Media plays a role in this, as well. Skewed views of race are offered on the news and in entertainment. Realism just doesn't exist.

[Squirrel]

Meanwhile, in Chicago ...

 

Sigh.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

  Two months ago when I was in the car with some other family members on the way home from Duluth, my brother made a comment about how we were drag racing with the car in the left lane. It's not that we really were, but we were side by side for quite a while, probably going about 65-70 mph in a 60 zone.

 

And the driver was black.

 

 

I could care less about the color of his skin, but cruising at 65-70 in the left lane while not passing is something that people can (and should) get tickets for (and note this comes from a driver who would be going the same speed).  [/Pet Peeve]

 

On a more serious note, I think Levi nailed this one.  I do think that as a whole racism is less than what it was.  That's not an excuse to simply ignore it, but it is something that needs to be recognized.  The real issue here though is that there's so many different groups with agendas that absolutely love to use the race card.  It's Democrats, Republicans, reporters, cops, lawyers, unions, and anyone else, and most of it is very self serving.  Most of the solutions bandied about by people aren't meant to actually solve this problem but to inflame it (and honestly, I'm not sure how solvable this problem is through any other solution than time and cross cultural exposure).

[Squirrel]

I disagree that it's less a problem than it used to be.

[TheLeviathan]

Meanwhile, in Chicago ...

 

Sigh.

Working as a cop in Chicago is nothing short of a nightmare job. I lasted four months in the juvenile system before my confidence in humanity was so shaken I had to leave.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I disagree that it's less a problem than it used to be.

I definitely think it's less of a problem - rounding up a posse and lynching black folk is no longer a past time of the south - but it's still a very big problem.

 

We're still facing problems that stem from those bad ol' days with housing and artificial ghettos being the root of the problem, at least in my opinion.

 

Everything stems from where black people live in this country. For decades, white people did everything they could to avoid integrated neighborhoods, forcing black people into small areas of extreme poverty. That means the schools sucked. That means people didn't get a quality education. That means no good jobs, especially neighborhood jobs. That means no tax base to lift the neighborhood and education system. That means the cycle of poverty continues.

 

Add in the general difficulty of simply "being black" in America and the police issues, job potential, etc. problems and here we are today.

 

The only fix is education and our system is so broken I'm not sure how we do that.

[Squirrel]

 

I definitely think it's less of a problem - rounding up a posse and lynching black folk is no longer a past time of the south - but it's still a very big problem.

 

We're still facing problems that stem from those bad ol' days with housing and artificial ghettos being the root of the problem, at least in my opinion.

 

Everything stems from where black people live in this country. For decades, white people did everything they could to avoid integrated neighborhoods, forcing black people into small areas of extreme poverty. That means the schools sucked. That means people didn't get a quality education. That means no good jobs, especially neighborhood jobs. That means the cycle of poverty continues.

 

Add in the general difficulty in simply "being black" in America and the police issues, job potential, etc. problems and here we are today.

 

The only fix is education and our system is so broken I'm not sure how we do that.

Maybe I should clarify what I meant. It's not the same, but I don't think it's less. Okay, marginally, yes. But not sweepingly less. IMO. But I think your take on things is very accurate, but for me, I don't think it's 'less enough' to be considered 'less.' Maybe it's a matter of semantics or degrees or ... I don't know. But it really doesn't seem that much 'less.' Just different.

[formerly33]

 

I could care less about the color of his skin, but cruising at 65-70 in the left lane while not passing is something that people can (and should) get tickets for (and note this comes from a driver who would be going the same speed).  [/Pet Peeve]

The point was that we were going noticeably faster by the time she was pulled over.

[formerly33]

 

Maybe I should clarify what I meant. It's not the same, but I don't think it's less. Okay, marginally, yes. But not sweepingly less. IMO. But I think your take on things is very accurate, but for me, I don't think it's 'less enough' to be considered 'less.' Maybe it's a matter of semantics or degrees or ... I don't know. But it really doesn't seem that much 'less.' Just different.

And just because there's less lynching these days, it's not because of a widespread change in feeling but rather a widespread change in justice.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Maybe I should clarify what I meant. It's not the same, but I don't think it's less. Okay, marginally, yes. But not sweepingly less. IMO. But I think your take on things is very accurate, but for me, I don't think it's 'less enough' to be considered 'less.' Maybe it's a matter of semantics or degrees or ... I don't know. But it really doesn't seem that much 'less.' Just different.

It all depends on how you structure it, I suppose. Physical violence against black people is condemned by the overwhelming majority of the population... That wasn't the case 50 years ago. Black people can (mostly) vote without difficulty, at least without fear of physical retribution.

 

Racism has gone underground, I guess. It's more nefarious and shadowy now than it was in the past, which makes it easier to ignore... But at least the physical component and danger has greatly diminished. That's why I'd consider it "less", I suppose.

 

Tomato, tomahto.

[Craig Arko]

Indeed, now the focus has gone from being Black to being Muslim. The face of The Other may change, but they're still there and still treated with bigotry.

[TheLeviathan]

Well said Brock. We forced black communities into desperation and the consequences of that are profound and far reaching. There are some real issues in the black community that have to be addressed, but that's where today's racism comes in. The problem is that a strong segment of the white population thinks these problems are because the people are black not that they are the consequences of decades of institutional oppression against black people.

 

That line gets even more blurry when you are confronted every day with those consequences/desperate behaviors like many cops, teachers, and community leaders have to. And the problems just compound each other and keep racism alive and active.

[Squirrel]

 

 

Working as a cop in Chicago is nothing short of a nightmare job. I lasted four months in the juvenile system before my confidence in humanity was so shaken I had to leave.

The system here is just so ... corrupt ... from the top on down.

[Squirrel]

 

 

It all depends on how you structure it, I suppose. Physical violence against black people is condemned by the overwhelming majority of the population... That wasn't the case 50 years ago. Black people can (mostly) vote without difficulty, at least without fear of physical retribution.

 

Racism has gone underground, I guess. It's more nefarious and shadowy now than it was in the past, which makes it easier to ignore... But at least the physical component and danger has greatly diminished. That's why I'd consider it "less", I suppose.

 

Tomato, tomahto.

This, yes. That's exactly what I think. Not only does it make it easier to ignore, but it makes it more difficult to combat. Have attitudes really changed? Maybe ... or maybe they are just altered. I know it takes time, but ... the distrust out there is huge.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Well said Brock. We forced black communities into desperation and the consequences of that are profound and far reaching. There are some real issues in the black community that have to be addressed, but that's where today's racism comes in. The problem is that a strong segment of the white population thinks these problems are because the people are black not that they are the consequences of decades of institutional oppression against black people.

That line gets even more blurry when you are confronted every day with those consequences/desperate behaviors like many cops, teachers, and community leaders have to. And the problems just compound each other and keep racism alive and active.

What possibly bothers me the most is that people are too damned dumb (maybe not dumb... "intentionally ignorant" might be a better way to put it) to see what happened decades ago is still influencing our culture today.

 

If your parents (or grandparents) grew up with nothing, had the potential to own nothing, and saw the same outlook for their children, why are we surprised those people have an ingrained nihilism that pervades every aspect of the culture?

 

It's a different form of what we see with Islamic terrorism. If you put people in a ****ty situation for long enough, they simply stop caring. Crime goes up, people do terrible things to one another, maybe they organize and turn violent... The culture slowly bleeds to death because there's no reason it shouldn't bleed to death. We have beaten these people so far down they no longer give a **** about much of anything.

[TheLeviathan]

Nihilism is a good word, but maybe almost too "big" to capture the plight of many black families.  

 

I was truly scared by some of the things I heard 13 year old young black men saying about life and what mattered.  (And, maybe most scary, what didn't matter)  

[Willihammer]

Two months ago when I was in the car with some other family members on the way home from Duluth, my brother made a comment about how we were drag racing with the car in the left lane. It's not that we really were, but we were side by side for quite a while, probably going about 65-70 mph in a 60 zone. We ended up pulling ahead, and just as we were doing so, a horn honked aggressively behind us and then we momentarily heard sirens as a state patrol pulled over the other driver. It could have been for anything...who knows? Obviously not speeding as we were right there and going faster (and the cop changed lanes from behind us), but...there's a lot of things it could have been. Like I said, anything.

 

And the driver was black.

 

Just sayin'.

Right it could have been anything. The fact that a white cop (was the cop even white?) pulled over a black driver, does not make it a racist thing.

[formerly33]

Well, I know that this piece of **** I woke up to this morning is racist.

 

 

All I can say is this young man must flush gold down his toilet. And yes, even still, black lives are definitely worth that and more.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The problem here is that the color of their skin means absolutely nothing, and it makes things horribly worse when people focus on that instead of the crime that was committed. 

 

Those two individuals (if guilty) forfeited what mattered about their lives when they raped and murdered a pregnant woman. I could care less about the color of their skin or hers or her unborn baby. Lives matter, and they matter equally. There is something seriously wrong with our society when someone(s) can take the life of another so cavalierly that they could do something like this. The fact that we get caught up in white lives and black lives is a symptom of a much greater problem, namely that we as a society try to say that some lives are more valuable than others (if you don't believe me, look at how society meters justice with regards to skin color), which tends to anger those who get slighted in that mess.  Instead of seeing it in terms of the crime, we see it as white vs. black, rich vs. poor, pretty vs. ugly. We get lost in the b*** s*** of white vs. black while real white people and real black people get hurt in the blowback.

 

Is racism still a problem in this country?  Yes, but so much of it would be less of a problem if as a society we simply started treating people equally across the board, whether that be in the justice system, economic system, or social system. The root of racism is the failure to recognize that all men and women are created equal.