Berardino: Vargas Drawing Interest In Asia

[Linus]

Cool, another Ortiz thread. These are even more annoying than Mauer threads, imo....

Oh I think the Mauer threads are the clear Champs in this regard. I might even say these are third after the Drew Butera angst that lasted for years....

[Mike Sixel]

 

Oh I think the Mauer threads are the clear Champs in this regard. I might even say these are third after the Drew Butera angst that lasted for years....

 

Mauer is still a Twin. There are actual reasons to talk about Mauer......IMO, of course.

[Otto von Ballpark]

As I am thinking, I realize Colabello, Albers, Johnson, and now Vargas all had an option remaining when the Twins broached selling their rights to an Asian team.  I wonder if they used that as leverage, basically telling them it's a numbers game here and they are likely to be stuck in AAA all season, or we could release you to sign with an Asian team.

 

I wouldn't think there's anything particularly admirable about that, if you want to free up the roster spot, put them on waivers and see if an MLB could use them first.  They might still get stashed in another team's AAA club but maybe not as far down the depth chart, and having options makes them more attractive in that sense -- they might be less likely to see any service time if they couldn't be optioned.

[TRex]

 

To bring it back on topic, I wonder if we ever approached Ortiz about going to Asia?

Do you think the Twins actively shop their players overseas? I guess my interpretation of the situation was that KBO or NPB teams contact the Twins first. I think it also seems logical that overseas teams are less likely to contact the Yankees or other high payroll teams because the money involved is a pittance. Finally, as an employer, I would feel like a heel if I didn't  at least let the player know about the opportunity (as long as they aren't in my long-term plans).

[Mike Sixel]

 

Do you think the Twins actively shop their players overseas? I guess my interpretation of the situation was that KBO or NPB teams contact the Twins first. I think it also seems logical that overseas teams are less likely to contact the Yankees or other high payroll teams because the money involved is a pittance. Finally, as an employer, I would feel like a heel if I didn't  at least let the player know about the opportunity (as long as they aren't in my long-term plans).

 

I do agree that they should let players know that is an option that they are willing to allow....that seems like a good thing to do as an employer. OTOH, baseball players and teams aren't like the rest of us when it comes to freedom to switch employees/ers (either way)......so while it might be admirable, I wouldn't condemn a team for not doing it.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Do you think the Twins actively shop their players overseas? I guess my interpretation of the situation was that KBO or NPB teams contact the Twins first. I think it also seems logical that overseas teams are less likely to contact the Yankees or other high payroll teams because the money involved is a pittance. Finally, as an employer, I would feel like a heel if I didn't  at least let the player know about the opportunity (as long as they aren't in my long-term plans).

It's great that they pass the offer along to the player... but maybe a little less great if they are doing it largely to free up the roster spot, which they could also do by putting the player on waivers and let them get another chance in the USA first.  And given the frequency that the Twins have been doing this, I think that's a valid concern.

[big dog]

 

It's great that they pass the offer along to the player... but maybe a little less great if they are doing it largely to free up the roster spot, which they could also do by putting the player on waivers and let them get another chance in the USA first.  And given the frequency that the Twins have been doing this, I think that's a valid concern.

As I recall, Colabello told them he wanted another shot at the majors, so they didn't sell his contract as a courtesy to him, and to their own cost.

[Otto von Ballpark]

As I recall, Colabello told them he wanted another shot at the majors, so they didn't sell his contract as a courtesy to him, and to their own cost.

Right, I know they aren't forcing it, but they may be pushing it when MLB opportunities are still available for the player.

[GMinTraining]

I look at several of the people who are getting asked to go to Asia and they have the same M.O. (Sluggers)!  I think that is an indictment on the Twins.  They need to hire a Hitting Coach who has an understanding of how to coach SLUGGERS.  All of our minor league SLUGGERS have trouble making it in the big leagues or have a similar fault (Strike Outs).  Even Sano had / has a problem with strikeouts.  Think about who in the Twins system is and was expected to help as a power threat draft choice / signee:  VARGAS; ARCIA; COLABELLO; SANO; WALKER; PLOUFFE; PARMELEE; HARRISON; etc.

 

None have made it within the Twins system as a power hitter at the MLB level (including Sano).  When I say made it - I mean stuck with the Twins (MLB) as a considered power threat for more than 2 years.  I once heard someone talk about bringing in Jim Thome as a spring training special instructor.  Not a bad thought in my mind, because there definitely seems to be a disconnect between power hitters and continued success.  Or - Bring in a specialized roving Power Hitting instructor for all the minor league levels.  AND when I say special - I mean someone who actually had power numbers as a player.  Not the occassional 15 to 20 home run season.  Then we wouldn't have to ship off the same flawed type players to Asia every year.

 

Thoughts....

[Linus]

I look at several of the people who are getting asked to go to Asia and they have the same M.O. (Sluggers)! I think that is an indictment on the Twins. They need to hire a Hitting Coach who has an understanding of how to coach SLUGGERS. All of our minor league SLUGGERS have trouble making it in the big leagues or have a similar fault (Strike Outs). Even Sano had / has a problem with strikeouts. Think about who in the Twins system is and was expected to help as a power threat draft choice / signee: VARGAS; ARCIA; COLABELLO; SANO; WALKER; PLOUFFE; PARMELEE; HARRISON; etc.

 

None have made it within the Twins system as a power hitter at the MLB level (including Sano). When I say made it - I mean stuck with the Twins (MLB) as a considered power threat for more than 2 years. I once heard someone talk about bringing in Jim Thome as a spring training special instructor. Not a bad thought in my mind, because there definitely seems to be a disconnect between power hitters and continued success. Or - Bring in a specialized roving Power Hitting instructor for all the minor league levels. AND when I say special - I mean someone who actually had power numbers as a player. Not the occassional 15 to 20 home run season. Then we wouldn't have to ship off the same flawed type players to Asia every year.

 

Thoughts....

Uh this is just wrong. The number of prospects the Twins have even been connected with overseas is miniscule. The others are viable prospects. Just confounds me how an unfounded theory gains traction on this site.

[GMinTraining]

 

Uh this is just wrong. The number of prospects the Twins have even been connected with overseas is miniscule. The others are viable prospects. Just confounds me how an unfounded theory gains traction on this site.

 

Hasn't Vargas; Arcia and Colabello been linked to KBO?  All are sluggers and have had some success with Twins before being considered for KBO.  I didn't think I said anything unfounded.  

 

I'll put it another way - Name the last 6 power prospects to come thru the Twins system?  Are the 3 above prospects part of your list?  How many have actually become power hitters for the Twins long term?

[Darius]

 

The quotes from Berardino suggest the Twins really push Asia to players, more than other teams -- why?

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/11/16/twinsights-kennys-vargas-drawing-interest-from-asian-club/

I sorta get it with the older AAA guys, but even then, we sold Albers over there, he was terrible, and he made MLB again his first season back. We tried to sell Colabello, but he declined and had a productive MLB season in Toronto. Kris Johnson was sold to Japan too.

And now it seems we are broaching the topic with both Vargas and Arcia at a much younger age? What gives? Are we really helping all these guys or hindering them?

 

We all know the answer to these questions.  If I could, I'd post a .gif of Scrooge McDuck backstroking thought his vault.

 

 

[Darius]

 

As I recall, Colabello told them he wanted another shot at the majors, so they didn't sell his contract as a courtesy to him, and to their own cost.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure the player has to agree to go to Asia.  They certainly tried to talk him into it.

 

Making the Pohlads sound like financial martyrs is just a tad rich (no pun intended).

[big dog]

 

Well, I'm pretty sure the player has to agree to go to Asia.  They certainly tried to talk him into it.

 

Making the Pohlads sound like financial martyrs is just a tad rich (no pun intended).

They asked him if he wanted to go, he said he didn't want to, they didn't sell the contract.  Do you know how hard they tried?

 

It did cost the team money.  There is perhaps a difference between that making the Pohlads sound like martyrs.  My point was that they weren't doing every possible thing to make a buck.  That's all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

They asked him if he wanted to go, he said he didn't want to, they didn't sell the contract.  Do you know how hard they tried?

 

It did cost the team money.  There is perhaps a difference between that making the Pohlads sound like martyrs.  My point was that they weren't doing every possible thing to make a buck.  That's all.

Actually, I believe they officially need the player's permission to do it.

 

Technically, they aren't directly selling the player's contract, they first reach an agreement with the foreign team and announce it, then they release the player (after clearing waivers as a formality), and finally the player signs with the foreign team.  That releasing step is key -- a team that tried this without the player's consent would actually just make him a free agent, free to sign with any team of his choosing (including MLB).

 

So the Twins did not pass up a chance to make a buck with Colabello.  There literally was no chance to do so without Colabello's consent.

 

So in this case when Mike Radcliff says, "The player has to agree," that's actually referring to an official requirement rather than a kind Twins gesture,

[gil4]

 

Also, a nitpic, but Ortiz was not stuck behind Morneau. Ortiz left two years before Morneau was a full time player.

That's right, it was Mientkiewicz, at the time, wasn't it?  Hindsight may be 20/20, but apparently my memory isn't.

[Linus]

Hasn't Vargas; Arcia and Colabello been linked to KBO? All are sluggers and have had some success with Twins before being considered for KBO. I didn't think I said anything unfounded.

 

I'll put it another way - Name the last 6 power prospects to come thru the Twins system? Are the 3 above prospects part of your list? How many have actually become power hitters for the Twins long term?

Of your examples only Collabello was suggested that we know of for sure. Plus THE PLAYER HAS TO AGREE. The Twins don't control this.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Of your examples only Collabello was suggested that we know of for sure. Plus THE PLAYER HAS TO AGREE. The Twins don't control this.

 

This quote from the Berardino blog certainly suggests that the Twins have had this conversation with Arcia too. 

 

 

 

Slugging outfielder Oswaldo Arcia, who averaged 17 homers in his first two big-league seasons before spending all but 19 games at Triple-A in 2015, has informed the Twins he wouldn't be willing to play in Asia. "The player has to agree," Radcliff said. "He has no interest in doing that. He wants to be a major league star."

 

 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Of your examples only Collabello was suggested that we know of for sure. Plus THE PLAYER HAS TO AGREE. The Twins don't control this.

The Twins can't force it, but they have a ton of leverage in the equation, which I could see rising to the level of "control."

 

They can effectively tell Colabello and Vargas (and Albers and Johnson) "we're probably going to keep you in AAA making $82k, or you can make five to ten times that if you agree to go to Asia."

 

(They couldn't tell that to Arcia right now as he's out of options, but if they broached the subject with him before, maybe they told him that last winter -- they did wind up keeping him in AAA much of the year, albeit by a circuitous route, not unlike Arcia's path to flyballs )