Al playoffs

[TheLeviathan]

What I take fom the ALCS:

Bullpens are important, cannot be built "easily" or "cheaply" as I often read, and can cover up for a lot of other weaknesses.

Leave May in the pen, add a couple arms a good or better, and hope a couple of the minor league arms graduate to the big league pen in 2016.

Have you looked back at how this bullpen was built though? Davis was a failed starter. Holland was a tenth round pick. Madsen was a reclamation project. Hochever is a huge bust that was moved to the pen. Herrera was an Intl. FA that was also a scrapped starter.

 

It's not like KCR invested heavily in this group or took successful starters and sent them to the pen. Doing that to May is a way different approach.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Bautista's throw to 2B--was correct. Cain's continuation home would not have been expected--but Hosmer to 2B is expected.  If the throw goes to 1st--Hosmer makes 2B, Cain is held at 3B, and both score on Morales's single!  Score KC 5  Tor 3

 

For the record, I believe the called strike on Revere--was correct!

You could be right. Hosmer might take second, but Cain definitely stays at third in that scenario. Runners on second and third with no out is still looking bleak but at least no run has scored. And then maybe you walk Morales to set up a DP.

[twinsnorth49]

I don't like the Jays and I'm happy with the outcome......but that wasn't a strike.

[jimmer]

 

Have you looked back at how this bullpen was built though? Davis was a failed starter. Holland was a tenth round pick. Madsen was a reclamation project. Hochever is a huge bust that was moved to the pen. Herrera was an Intl. FA that was also a scrapped starter.

It's not like KCR invested heavily in this group or took successful starters and sent them to the pen. Doing that to May is a way different approach.

Most relievers are failed starters (like Nathan). TB had already figured out that Davis belonged in the pen before they ever traded him ((like the Giants did with Nathan). KC, for reasons passing understanding, decided to try him as a starter again, but he had already been converted to a reliever before they ever got him.

 

I hope the Twins aren't dumb enough to continue to waste May in the pen.  I have no doubt he will stay in the pen, but I hope he doesn't.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Most relievers are failed starters (like Nathan). TB had already figured out that Davis belonged in the pen before they ever traded him ((like the Giants did with Nathan). KC, for reasons passing understanding, decided to try him as a starter again, but he had already been converted to a reliever before they ever got him.

 

That's true, but that still doesn't make him analogous to taking May (a guy having success) and pushing him to the bullpen.

[USAFChief]

By every measure imaginable, May has been bad to mediocre as a starter, good to dominant as a reliever.

 

IMO there's a real chance you're wasting a good reliever trying to force him into a rotation.

 

Don't take an asset and turn it into a liability.

[TheLeviathan]

 

By every measure imaginable, May has been bad to mediocre as a starter, good to dominant as a reliever.

IMO there's a real chance you're wasting a good reliever trying to force him into a rotation.

Don't take an asset and turn it into a liability.

 

You think it's fair analysis of a young player to hold his initial appearances against him?  Trevor May was pitching well in the rotation when he was moved, you don't take that kind of asset and force it into the bullpen because you have a dearth of talent there.  

 

KC didn't force anyone to the pen, those moves were natural because of several failed attempts as starters.  Wade Davis had 88 MLB starts.  Hochevar had 128.  Herrera spent three years in the minors in the rotation before being moved.  

 

If you think Kansas City is some sort of blueprint for handling May, you're looking at a different Royals team than me.  Not to mention it's probably true that most starters would become much better as relievers.....but there is a really, really good reason you don't just do that.  

 

I mean, Berrios, for example, could probably be one of the best relievers in the game if you want to move him too.  I'd rather not.

[USAFChief]

You think it's fair analysis of a young player to hold his initial appearances against him?  Trevor May was pitching well in the rotation when he was moved, you don't take that kind of asset and force it into the bullpen because you have a dearth of talent there.  

 

KC didn't force anyone to the pen, those moves were natural because of several failed attempts as starters.  Wade Davis had 88 MLB starts.  Hochevar had 128.  Herrera spent three years in the minors in the rotation before being moved.  

 

If you think Kansas City is some sort of blueprint for handling May, you're looking at a different Royals team than me.  Not to mention it's probably true that most starters would become much better as relievers.....but there is a really, really good reason you don't just do that.  

 

I mean, Berrios, for example, could probably be one of the best relievers in the game if you want to move him too.  I'd rather not.

May is 26. Stop with the "young."

 

He also has no extended minor league history of dominance as a starter. What he has is a big arm, trouble repeating his delivery over extended innings, reduced velocity as a starter, mediocre third and fourth pitches, and bouts of wildness. All of those problems can be mitigated in the pen, while playing up his strengths.

 

Maybe he can be a mid rotation starter. I don't see that as his best use.

[TheLeviathan]

One need be "dominant" to stay as a starter?  Does that mean we should we move Duffey too?  

 

(And, I don't think it's unfair to call someone "young" when they are new to the league.  He's young enough and inexperienced enough for that not to be treated as some gross mischaracterization)

 

I guess these terms for deciding bullpen vs. starter might be good for some people.  Is that you Mike Pelfrey?

[Secondary User]

That pitch is running arm side. I would not be surprised at all if that ball nips the front of the plate

[jimmer]

 

One need be "dominant" to stay as a starter?  Does that mean we should we move Duffey too?  

 

(And, I don't think it's unfair to call someone "young" when they are new to the league.  He's young enough and inexperienced enough for that not to be treated as some gross mischaracterization)

 

I guess these terms for deciding bullpen vs. starter might be good for some people.  Is that you Mike Pelfrey?

There is a lot of value in a mid rotation starter.. May can very well be that kind of guy and probably better.  As a starter, he had a FIP of 3.35 this year and a xFIP of 3.95.  He averaged almost 8Ks per 9 IP (2nd most of any starter last year and more than any starter when demoted) and walked less than 2 per 9 IP (2nd lowest walk rate of any Twins starter last year). All this while having the misfortune of having a .344 BABIP (and we all get how unstable that can be, Danny Santana)

 

I'll take that kind of performance all season long from a starter.  Those are all pretty telling measures if you actually want to measure what the pitcher did (better than ERA and win/loss record) and they say he did his job well.

[Willihammer]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=451584&game=gid_2015_10_23_tormlb_kcamlb_1&batterX=71&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3&league=mlb&pnf=&zlpo=&cache=1.gif

[jimbo92107]

The league is really blowing it by moving its games all over the place, plus cutting off the mlb.com deal at the end of the regular season. Basically, my enthusiasm for the playoffs died the moment the Twins were out of it, and I'm not about to cough up further ransom for mlb's playoff package or blow huge money on basic crap cable, which still won't cover all the games. 

 

Baseball has to get a brain about this. Alienating 95 percent of its fan base is no way to run an industry. They were making plenty of money when they had all their playoff games on broadcast TV with expensive commercials. Now, fans like me are losing interest. I like baseball, but I'm not going to dedicate my time or money to hunting for it.

[jimmer]

TV stations could very well have decided that they'd rather show football  and the premieres of their TV shows (or not put their shows on hold after one two episodes) than show baseball playoffs.  CBS and FOX aren't going to stop showing football on Sunday for baseball games, even if they are playoffs.

[notoriousgod71]

Blue Jays and Rangers at it again.

 

Bautista takes out Odor at second base (although I don't think he even fell down) and then odor lands a gigantic punch to Bautista's face and everyone charges out there. Then Prince immediately gets drilled and everyone runs out again.

 

 

I love true hatred.