Playoff Roster Loophole

[BK432]

I'm seeing some misinformation in some of the forums, especially as it relates to Berrios and having him eligible for a possible playoff run. I thought today, being August 31 and all, would be a good time to set the record straight. I'm going to paste a portion of the article linked to at the bottom of this post, as this is the truly pertinent information:

 

"Additionally, a club can add any player from the organization to replace a player on the disabled list. Earlier this week, the Royals called up Michael Mariot and immediately placed him on the 60-day disabled list. While this seems like a curious move, this was done explicitly for the purpose of using Mariot as a placeholder in case the Royals want to add another player to their post-season roster that wasn't on the team August 31. So technically, Brandon Finnegan can be called up September 2 and replace Michael Mariot's "place" on the active roster. This loophole has been exploited by teams for years and was used most famously by the Angels in 2002 with Francisco Rodriguez, who had as many post-season innings that year as he did regular season Major League innings."

 

So, let's be clear here: Berrios does not have to be added to the 40 man and/or promoted today in order to be playoff-eligible. If Graham or Nolasco end up on the 60 day DL, they are replaceable at any time in September (or October) by anyone in the organization. That is anyone, not limited to being on the 40 man roster.

 

Yes, Berrios would then have to be added to the 40 man upon promotion and the Twins would have to free up a spot - but my point is that nobody should jump to any conclusions if a move isn't made today. This isn't over, and the Twins certainly can kick the can down the road a couple weeks if they choose to make sure the Twins *really* are worth burning a Berrios service year on.

 

http://www.royalsreview.com/2014/8/29/6078975/your-guide-to-september-and-post-season-rosters

 

http://www.blessyouboys.com/2013/8/22/4644062/playoff-roster-eligibility-explained

[Squirrel]

Thanks for answering that question and clearning this up. I wasn't sure.

 

Between this and the 'game 163 playoff' or 'game 163 tiebreaker' or WC game ... lots of confusion!

[Shane Wahl]

Yep, good job. Also, Ervin Santana is already giving the Twins such a spot (sucks to not have his potential dominant games for the playoffs though).

 

Graham being moved to the 60 day would help significantly. Clearly the Twins should only need 11 pitchers. They have to do that, right?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So hypothetical:

 

Graham is currently on the 15-day DL and therefore eligible to be on a 25-man postseason roster. 

 

Berrios is not called up Sept 1 and remains at Rochester until their season ends, and is still not called up to join Twins after the Rochester season. Not called up at all.

 

In late September, Graham is moved to 60-day DL.

 

Berrios would then be eligible to be called up to the 25-man to replace Graham, no one is dropped from the 40-man roster, and Berrios gets full postseason eligibility? 

 

 

 

 

[BK432]

 

So hypothetical:

 

Graham is currently on the 15-day DL and therefore eligible to be on a 25-man postseason roster. 

 

Berrios is not called up Sept 1 and remains at Rochester until their season ends, and is still not called up to join Twins after the Rochester season. Not called up at all.

 

In late September, Graham is moved to 60-day DL.

 

Berrios would then be eligible to be called up to the 25-man to replace Graham, no one is dropped from the 40-man roster, and Berrios gets full postseason eligibility? 

 

To my understanding - yes. Provided that JR Graham is a Rule 5 guy I'm not sure if there are any special considerations with him going on a 60 day DL, but beyond that, yes.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting info, thanks.

 

Earlier this week, the Royals called up Michael Mariot and immediately placed him on the 60-day disabled list. While this seems like a curious move, this was done explicitly for the purpose of using Mariot as a placeholder in case the Royals want to add another player to their post-season roster that wasn't on the team August 31. So technically, Brandon Finnegan can be called up September 2 and replace Michael Mariot's "place" on the active roster.

This isn't quite true.  A player must fully serve his DL time before being eligible for postseason roster injury replacement.  A player going on the 60-day DL in late August, such as Mariot above or potentially Graham for the Twins, could be replaced on the 40-man but not give us a "flex spot" for postseason replacement.

 

Finnegan appears to have been added on Sep. 1st last year, although it may have been partially due to a suspended game from August 31:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/k-zone/article1340533.html

 

I have seen some mention of injury replacements requiring permission from the league, which perhaps wouldn't be automatic for guys not on the 40-man as of August 31st?  Finnegan is the only non-40-man as of August 31st example I have found, and as I mentioned he was added Sep. 1st after the completion of a suspended August 31st game.  If Berrios was added later, it might be within the rules but it may also be unprecedented.

 

The most famous case, K Rod, was indeed added to the 40-man roster on August 31, 2002, although he wasn't recalled until mid-September.  So this rule change appears to be new.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So hypothetical:

 

Graham is currently on the 15-day DL and therefore eligible to be on a 25-man postseason roster. 

 

Berrios is not called up Sept 1 and remains at Rochester until their season ends, and is still not called up to join Twins after the Rochester season. Not called up at all.

 

In late September, Graham is moved to 60-day DL.

 

Berrios would then be eligible to be called up to the 25-man to replace Graham, no one is dropped from the 40-man roster, and Berrios gets full postseason eligibility? 

I don't think so.  See my post above.  A player must satisfy the requirements of his DL assignment before being eligible for replacement.

 

So I think they could leave Graham on the 15-day DL and use a postseason injury replacement, but they couldn't also move him to the 60-day DL and free up a 40-man spot because Graham will not have spent 60 days on the DL until late October.

[BK432]

 

I don't think so.  See my post above.  A player must satisfy the requirements of his DL assignment before being eligible for replacement.

 

So I think they could leave Graham on the 15-day DL and use a postseason injury replacement, but they couldn't also move him to the 60-day DL and free up a 40-man spot because Graham will not have spent 60 days on the DL until late October.

 

This may be true - a 40 man move may be required after all. Thanks for adding that info.

 

For what it's worth, Finnegan was added to the 40 man on September 1 last year - details are in the article below. And yes, it is subject to approval from the commissioner's office, though it would be hard to argue there isn't some precedent that has already occurred that would prevent the Twins from exploiting this loophole.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/k-zone/article1340533.html

 

 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

So:

 

Graham is eligible to come off 15-day DL on Sept 11 (give or take a day). 

 

Berrios is called up Sept 1st with some other guys (someone is dropped from 40-man to make room for Berrios);

 

Graham remains on 15-day DL through end of season, Twins do not reactivate him;

 

Twins make postseason, Graham is still injured, and therefore Berrios can replace Graham on postseason roster? The only formality is certain permission from the commissioner's office?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This may be true - a 40 man move may be required after all. Thanks for adding that info.

 

For what it's worth, Finnegan was added to the 40 man on September 1 last year - details are in the article below. And yes, it is subject to approval from the commissioner's office, though it would be hard to argue there isn't some precedent that has already occurred that would prevent the Twins from exploiting this loophole.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/k-zone/article1340533.html

Finnegan is the only precedent I've found, and Kansas City literally could *not* add him to the 40-man on the night of the deadline due to that ongoing suspended game (and it appears he was added immediately after its conclusion the following day).

 

That's not a good precedent to use for adding Berrios after the deadline.  The Twins would not have any excuse to present to the commissioner's office.

 

And what exactly would be the benefit of waiting?  Getting to see yet another Berrios start at Rochester?  Keeping Aaron Thompson or Jason Wheeler on the 40-man for a few extra days?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

So:

 

Graham is eligible to come off 15-day DL on Sept 11 (give or take a day). 

 

Berrios is called up Sept 1st with some other guys (someone is dropped from 40-man to make room for Berrios);

 

Graham remains on 15-day DL through end of season, Twins do not reactivate him;

 

Twins make postseason, Graham is still injured, and therefore Berrios can replace Graham on postseason roster? The only formality is certain permission from the commissioner's office?

Yes.  Although the commissioner's office permission is apparently only required now if you add players to the 40-man roster after August 31st.  So we wouldn't even need that permission if we just added Berrios (and dropped someone else, or 60-day DL'ed Graham) before midnight tonight.

[BK432]

 

So:

 

Graham is eligible to come off 15-day DL on Sept 11 (give or take a day). 

 

Berrios is called up Sept 1st with some other guys (someone is dropped from 40-man to make room for Berrios);

 

Graham remains on 15-day DL through end of season, Twins do not reactivate him;

 

Twins make postseason, Graham is still injured, and therefore Berrios can replace Graham on postseason roster? The only formality is certain permission from the commissioner's office?

 

That is exactly how the rule reads. Yes. As to the 'formality'.....well, I think it's safe to say the Twins should feel assured they would get that acceptance if they try to go down this road. If they don't, then they better make a move tonight.

[Otto von Ballpark]

According to this, the Twins can construct their postseason roster (which can be different for each series) from every player on the 40-man or DL as of midnight August 31st:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/more-players-to-choose-from-for-postseason-roster-090114

 

It doesn't matter what our 25-man active roster is today or tomorrow, the postseason rosters are basically created anew from the 40-man and DL.  So no shenanigans or special permissions would be required to use players other than Graham, Nolasco, Pressly, etc.  (Or Santana)

 

Not clear how flexible the commissioner's office is willing to be with players not on the 40-man by the midnight deadline tonight.  Would be an interesting question to ask someone in the know.

[Mike Sixel]

How about just make it easy, and call up Berrios? That seems like the best idea to me.

 

Or is he not better than any of the pitchers currently on the 25 man roster? If he's not, then YES, I would trade him for Swihart.....

[Shane Wahl]

 

According to this, the Twins can construct their postseason roster (which can be different for each series) from every player on the 40-man or DL as of midnight August 31st:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/more-players-to-choose-from-for-postseason-roster-090114

 

It doesn't matter what our 25-man active roster is today or tomorrow, the postseason rosters are basically created anew from the 40-man and DL.  So no shenanigans or special permissions would be required to use players other than Graham, Nolasco, Pressly, etc.

 

Not clear how flexible the commissioner's office is willing to be with players not on the 40-man by the midnight deadline tonight.  Would be an interesting question to ask someone in the know.

 

Oh my god! That does change things quite significantly. I had no idea there was even a rule change.

[BK432]

 

According to this, the Twins can construct their postseason roster (which can be different for each series) from every player on the 40-man or DL as of midnight August 31st:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-outside/baseball-joe/blog/more-players-to-choose-from-for-postseason-roster-090114

 

It doesn't matter what our 25-man active roster is today or tomorrow, the postseason rosters are basically created anew from the 40-man and DL.  So no shenanigans or special permissions would be required to use players other than Graham, Nolasco, Pressly, etc.

 

Not clear how flexible the commissioner's office is willing to be with players not on the 40-man by the midnight deadline tonight.  Would be an interesting question to ask someone in the know.

 

Yes - this is definitely true. So instead of trying to "special permission their way" into not adding him to the 40 man yet, just go ahead and add him and then you can figure out the roster later. I would be willing to risk AJ Achter.

 

So they still can choose to be super-conservative, not burn MLB service time and wait and see, all the while holding him as a trump card.

 

Just to be clear, I'd really rather they just promoted him and use him as a weapon now, but I think it's important to note that they don't have to decide that yet.

[BK432]

Of course, since Berrios was 18 when he was drafted, I believe the Twins don't have to Rule 5 protect him on the 40 man this winter yet....but it's hard to believe he won't spend the vast majority of 2016 with the Twins anyway.

[BK432]

 

The most famous case, K Rod, was indeed added to the 40-man roster on August 31, 2002, although he wasn't recalled until mid-September.  So this rule change appears to be new.

 

By the way, this is not accurate. K-Rod wasn't added to 40 man until he was called up to MLB on September 15.

[Otto von Ballpark]

By the way, this is not accurate. K-Rod wasn't added to 40 man until he was called up to MLB on September 15.

I don't know your source, but here is mine that says K-Rod was already on the 40-man:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=1449436

 

Relevant quote from Angels front office member: "Francisco was eligible because on August 31 he was on the 40-man roster."

 

Remember, postseason roster rules used to be much more restrictive. It was your 25-man as of Sep. 1st, unless you got into DL shenanigans like K-Rod.

[Otto von Ballpark]

You might be right, though -- I found this reference to the Angels purchasing his contract on September 15, which means placing on the 40-man roster:

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels-team-transactions?year=2002&type=38

 

Really confusing to have the direct Angels quote above saying otherwise, though!

[Shane Wahl]

Shane's Playoff Roster:

 

Aaron Hicks, Brian Dozier, Joe Mauer, Miguel Sano, Trevor Plouffe, Eddie Rosario, Eduardo Escobar, Kurt Suzuki, Byron Buxton, Torii Hunter, Kennys Vargas, Danny Santana, Chris Herrmann, Josmil Pinto

 

Jose Berrios, Kyle Gibson, Phil Hughes, Tyler Duffey, Mike Pelfrey, Tommy Milone, Casey Fien, Neal Cotts, Kevin Jepsen, Trevor May, Glen Perkins

 

I bet the Twins go with Shane Robinson instead of Pinto.

[gocgo]

 

Yes - this is definitely true. So instead of trying to "special permission their way" into not adding him to the 40 man yet, just go ahead and add him and then you can figure out the roster later. I would be willing to risk AJ Achter.

 

So they still can choose to be super-conservative, not burn MLB service time and wait and see, all the while holding him as a trump card.

 

Just to be clear, I'd really rather they just promoted him and use him as a weapon now, but I think it's important to note that they don't have to decide that yet.

I'd say Aaron Thompson would be my guy to risk.  What about Arcia? on the 40 man with virtually no chance of a callup.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd say Aaron Thompson would be my guy to risk. What about Arcia? on the 40 man with virtually no chance of a callup.

Arcia would 100% get claimed on waivers. Thompson and Wheeler are likely to clear (and unlikely to be missed in any case, neither is likely to be useful in September and both would probably be dropped from the 40-man after the season anyway.)

[spinowner]

 

Shane's Playoff Roster:

 

Aaron Hicks, Brian Dozier, Joe Mauer, Miguel Sano, Trevor Plouffe, Eddie Rosario, Eduardo Escobar, Kurt Suzuki, Byron Buxton, Torii Hunter, Kennys Vargas, Danny Santana, Chris Herrmann, Josmil Pinto

 

Jose Berrios, Kyle Gibson, Phil Hughes, Tyler Duffey, Mike Pelfrey, Tommy Milone, Casey Fien, Neal Cotts, Kevin Jepsen, Trevor May, Glen Perkins

 

I bet the Twins go with Shane Robinson instead of Pinto.

Pinto? He's hardly played all year. I'd put Arcia ahead of him. And you have 6 starters when only 4 are needed, so which two would become relievers?

[BK432]

 

You might be right, though -- I found this reference to the Angels purchasing his contract on September 15, which means placing on the 40-man roster:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels-team-transactions?year=2002&type=38

Really confusing to have the direct Angels quote above saying otherwise, though!

 

It is confusing. Mine is from the official MLB transactions page, so that's what I'm going with for now. http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=ana&year=2002&month=9