Mauer, what to do?

[Minniman]

Bat Mauer second or sixth this season.

 

Make sure he gets into a strength program in the offseason and have him work with a different hitting coach than the Twins have.

 

His contract is a sunk cost. The Twins need to put the best future team on the field, so if Joe can't hit like he used to, he can't bat where he used to.

 

[Platoon]

Send Mauer back to playing catcher.

 

That is what he signed up for; that is what he is being paid for.

 

Football players and jockeys take more risk for less money.

New drinking game! Every time someone suggests Mauer goes back to catching, you drink a beer. If they include trading him in the same post you have two beers! If they include both catching, trading, or cutting him, three beers. Any mention of him retiring, just turn off TD, and drink the whole damn case!

[D. Hocking]

 

New drinking game! Every time someone suggests Mauer goes back to catching, you drink a beer. If they include trading him in the same post you have two beers! If they include both catching, trading, or cutting him, three beers. Any mention of him retiring, just turn off TD, and drink the whole damn case!

 

Does mentioning how he should restructure his contract threaten one's sobriety (while possibly alluding to his lack of emotion and his not caring)?

[jimbo92107]

 

What I would do ...

 

August 12th thru 31st - Continue playing him at first, but increase his days off giving Sano or Plouffe more games there. DO NOT BAT HIM 3rd UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!! Anywhere above 6th is probably too generous at this point.

 

September 1st thru the end of the season - Call up Kepler and Vargas. They get shared time at 1st with Kepler seeing some action in the OF. Mauer shares time with them as well as Sano at DH.

 

Spring Training 2016 - Open the 1st Base job for competition. Mauer is on equal footing with Vargas and Kepler. Whoever wins the job wins the job.

 

2016 Season Opener - Mauer either starts at 1st or serves as a PH/defensive replacement.

That's actually the best way to go. It's a merit based system, not a scholarship for Joe Mauer. His experiment with trying to pull more balls with more power failed because he didn't make the kind of changes Aaron Hicks did to gain power. Mauer needs to incorporate the same kick, bat wave and forward stride to unleash more power from his swing.

 

Working to Mauer's advantage is his hip turn, which has always been excellent. Now he needs to add a Cuban Leg Kick and a Dominican Bat Wave, the way Hicks has done. If he actually incorporated those things into his swing, he could start hitting the ball just as hard as Hicks has been doing lately. With Mauer's hip turn, he might hit the ball even harder.

 

I talked earlier about why Mauer's attempt to develop pull power failed. His style was to keep his weight back and slash across the inside of the ball, generating remarkable power while meeting the ball as late as possible. Unfortunately, that approach does not work well for trying to pull the ball because the barrel doesn't carry far through the zone if you try to roll your wrists early to pull it. What happens instead is the bat head rises over the top of the ball, producing a pulled grounder. Ironically, if Mauer tried to stay inside those balls instead of pulling them, he'd probably still be hitting a lot of line drives. His swing has always been geared to slashing across the ball, so that's where he has trained himself to swing the bat. If he brings his hands forward and then rolls his wrists...grounder.

 

I thought Mauer was going to give up his power-pull experiment after the All Star game, but he's still trying to make it work. I'm certain it won't, not the way he brings his hands forward. Assuming he wants to hit balls where they're pitched, he'd have to decide during the pitch whether to bring his hands forward high to slash oppo, or lower to roll his wrists and pull a line drive, almost an impossible task. He's basically left guessing. Even when he does hit a line drive, it's not the smashed liner he's physically capable of generating, if he altered his mechanics. That change certainly won't happen during the season. 

 

That does leave the off-season for Mauer to tinker with better power mechanics. We all know he's an amazing athlete, much like Aaron Hicks. If anybody could develop a new swing, it would be Joe Mauer.

[twinsnorth49]

New drinking game! Every time someone suggests Mauer goes back to catching, you drink a beer. If they include trading him in the same post you have two beers! If they include both catching, trading, or cutting him, three beers. Any mention of him retiring, just turn off TD, and drink the whole damn case!

Can I skip the game and just drink the beer?

 

I wonder which galaxy we might be able to reach if we lined up all the Mauer posts in all the Mauer threads together.....EGS-zs8 is my guess.

[Platoon]

Does mentioning how he should restructure his contract threaten one's sobriety (while possibly alluding to his lack of emotion and his not caring)?

You can mention it. It will go about as far as the catching again idea! The NBA and the NFL restructure contracts. NHL? Who cares? I don't recall anyone in MLB doing it. Not even Ricky Nolasco or Ervin Santana. Now there's a couple guys that are worth the money they are getting paid!

[Platoon]

Can I skip the game and just drink the beer?

I wonder which galaxy we might be able to reach if we lined up all the Mauer posts in all the Mauer threads together.....EGS-zs8 is my guess.

I guess the easiest way to get a lot of views/responses is to post a Mauer or Hunter post. That said, they are amusing.

[Shane Wahl]

He isn't switching positions, nor would you want him to--the OF? With Rosario-Buxton-Hicks likely instead!?

 

He bats second or seventh. Not 3-6.

 

In 2016, I would expect him to be better again. Ceiling 2014 Justin Morneau and floor 2015 Justin Morneau (without the injury). There is just no way that this drop in production is the result of anything but the concussions. He was simply way, way too good for that.

 

Anyway, if things are bad for him next year: Buxton-Hicks-Sano-Dozier-Vargas-Rosario-Mauer-C-SS against lefties, and maybe Buxton-Mauer-Sano-Vargas-Dozier-Rosario-Hicks-C-SS against righties (assuming Plouffe and Arcia are traded).

 

Also . . . another suggestion for Plouffe lovers and Vargas/Arcia haters. Is it really unthinkable that Sano could be a better defensive first baseman going forward than Joe going forward? Sano has more overall athleticism and he wouldn't have to worry about his throws very much. Maybe Joe is the DH? I think, although this year is different, league average OPS for 1B is a bit higher than for DH for most seasons.

[BeenHazy]

Move him to 7th in the lineup, and remember that the money he's paid now was earned under a Teflon sky when he was grossly underpaid. 

[Minniman]

 

New drinking game! Every time someone suggests Mauer goes back to catching, you drink a beer. If they include trading him in the same post you have two beers! If they include both catching, trading, or cutting him, three beers. Any mention of him retiring, just turn off TD, and drink the whole damn case!

 

If Mauer doesn't want to catch, then he should bulk up and add power to his game. He could also protect the plate with two strikes instead of believing the umps will give him that close call. He is not Derek Jeter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

You can mention it. It will go about as far as the catching again idea! The NBA and the NFL restructure contracts. NHL? Who cares? I don't recall anyone in MLB doing it. Not even Ricky Nolasco or Ervin Santana. Now there's a couple guys that are worth the money they are getting paid!

Different circumstances, but Hamilton and Papelbon have restructured recently. Other guys have restructured to defer money, I think.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Also, a few guys have retired and skipped some guaranteed money, some while healthy. Sandberg most notably left $16 mil on the table when he retired in 1994. So it doesn't have to be a restructured contract either.

 

Again, not saying it is likely, but a possibility if things don't improve.

[Minniman]

 

 

Move him to 7th in the lineup, and remember that the money he's paid now was earned under a Teflon sky when he was grossly underpaid. 

 

Joe Mauer was never grossly underpaid. Prior to signing the 8 year $184 million contract in 2010, he signed a 4 year $33 million extension with the Twins in 2007. That was $8.25 million per season, and he only played three years under that contract.

[Minniman]

 

 

Different circumstances, but Hamilton and Papelbon have restructured recently. Other guys have restructured to defer money, I think.

 

Having 100% guaranteed money for the entirety of the contract in MLB, NBA, and NHL is the problem. At least the NHL has a buyout provision.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Joe Mauer was never grossly underpaid. Prior to signing the 8 year $184 million contract in 2010, he signed a 4 year $33 million extension with the Twins in 2007. That was $8.25 million per season, and he only played three years under that contract.

Mauer did play that full contract, the extension did not kick in until 2011. And all pre-arb/pre-FA stars are probably by definition underpaid relative to all players, just due to the system.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Having 100% guaranteed money for the entirety of the contract in MLB, NBA, and NHL is the problem. At least the NHL has a buyout provision.

I don't think it is a problem, necessarily. If a team wants a buyout in MLB, they can negotiate it when they sign the contract.

 

Much prefer this system to the NFL, for example.

[Minniman]

 

Mauer did play that full contract, the extension did not kick in until 2011.

 

Yep, I actually noticed that while I was looking up his earlier contracts and his draft signing bonus.

 

And all pre-arb/pre-FA stars are probably by definition underpaid relative to all players, just due to the system.

 

 

Relative to all players? Perhaps, but stars almost always get overpaid after, and this contract was too large for too long.

 

Four years at $23 million per season? I can see that.

 

Eight years at $15 million per season? I can see that too.

 

Eight years at $23 million per season? That is too much of a gamble.

 

What is done is done. Joe Mauer is not going to give money back if he does not play well.

[DaveW]

I think they should move him to DH, seems to have worked for A Rod. Bat him 2nd in the lineup:

 

Hicks

Mauer

Sano

dozier

(This gives Sano protection)

 

Play Sano at 3rd and Plouffe at first. Trade plouffe in the offseason and call up Kepler or Vargas to play first.

[Minniman]

 

 

I don't think it is a problem, necessarily. If a team wants a buyout in MLB, they can negotiate it when they sign the contract.

Much prefer this system to the NFL, for example.

 

I do not like either system, but I much prefer the NFL system to MLB or NBA.

[DaveW]

I do not like either system, but I much prefer the NFL system to MLB or NBA.

so do the owners.

 

The NFL treats its players like crap. I give them another 20 years before the league is basically sued into oblivion and is shut down.

[Minniman]

I think they should move him to DH, seems to have worked for A Rod. Bat him 2nd in the lineup:

Hicks

Mauer

Sano

dozier

(This gives Sano protection)

 

Play Sano at 3rd and Plouffe at first.

 

Trade plouffe in the offseason and call up Kepler or Vargas to play first.

 

 

Sounds good, but the DH should provide RBI potential. It is also used for good hitters than can no longer play the field defensively at the MLB level.

   

What if Plouffe is a better hitter than Mauer or a better fielder than Kepler or Vargas?

 

 

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure. Oswald was credited for hits on shots he likely did not take.

 

[mikelink45]

Play him at SS - combine all our problems in one space and fill up the roster with players on the rise  (just kidding).  I do not think our leadership will or can have the kind of talk that other teams would have.  This is a problem and it requires that the people paid to solve problems step forward.

[Minniman]

 

 

I do not like either system, but I much prefer the NFL system to MLB or NBA.

 

 

so do the owners.

The NFL treats its players like crap. I give them another 20 years before the league is basically sued into oblivion and is shut down.

 

I agree, but all of them treat fans like crap.

 

As I stated, I do not like any of the systems in place, but the NFL system is better than either MLB or the NBA in my opinion.

 

Having some kind of buyout is the most fair to both sides, so the NHL system is better than the other three at this time.

[dbminn]

 

Move Mauer to the 7th spot in the batting order now!

 

1. Hicks (S)

2. Dozier (R )

3. Rosario (L) <<<

4. Sano (R )

5. Plouffe  (R )

6. Hunter (R )

7. Mauer (L) <<<

8. Suzuki (R )

9. Escobar (S)

 

this way our 4 fastest players are batting consecutively.

Hunter has Mauer batting behind him.

Mauer doesn't really need a top hitter batting behind him.

Good post. I would switch Dozier/Rosario and Hunter/Mauer. Dozier has more power and moving Mauer up one gives a R/L/R combo.

[DaveW]

 

 

I wouldn't be so sure. Oswald was credited for hits on shots he likely did not take.

 

+1 grassy knoll.

[kab21]

 

Well, Helton only suffered two seasons at Mauer's current level of play during his big contract, nonconsecutive, and one largely impacted by injury (think Mauer's 2011).

I could see Mauer wanting to walk away after three straight years of this, especially when you add in the concussion and what's happened to Morneau this year. Not probable, but possible, I'd say.

You can't just take raw OPS numbers for a player that plays at Coors in the inflated stats era.  Mauer needs to hit better but Helton was a tad worse 3 times.  The Twins are stuck with him but hopefully he can at least hit like last year.  He isn't great but you don't even think of doing any of the stuff (performance ultimatums) for a hometown hero, a fan favorite and a possible HOF'er because you have some average at best prospects to play.  Not all of the prospects are average at best but with the OF/3B versatility of these 'blocked' players many of them are average at best.

 

Mauer's current level of play (wRC) - last five years

99 - injured

138

145

105

93

 

Helton's wRC

116

133

101

131

88 - injured

120

88

87

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You can't just take raw OPS numbers for a player that plays at Coors in the inflated stats era. 

First of all, why did you assume I used raw OPS?  I didn't actually list any numbers.   For what it's worth, I was going by OPS+ actually, which is pretty close to wRC+.

 

 

Helton's wRC

116

133

101

131

88 - injured

120

88

87

 

Helton's last two seasons (that 88 and 87) weren't part of his big contract .  Actually, to your point that we can't re-negotiate anything with Mauer, the Rockies actually did re-work Helton's deal -- he agreed to cut the final year salary of his big contract in half, in exchange for a 2/10 extension.

 

In any case, Helton was only below 117 OPS+ twice through his entire big contract, again non-consecutive and once apparently while injured.

 

Mauer had his poor injury season already in 2011, another tough year overall in 2014 (although not as bad as this year), and now of course 2015.  If 2015's numbers are repeated in 2016, he's going to be well beyond Helton's threshold of big-salary suckitude.

[twinsfanstreif]

I know I'm probably gonna get slammed for this but Mauer provides more value than we give him credit for on this board. I get it, he's slumping and not looking great, it took Morneau several years before he was back to a decent form and I believe Mauer will do the same. But in the mean time he is not the major issue with this team. He provides excellent defense and by just the eye test I would say he's probably one of the top 5 defensive 1B in the AL and I know defense at 1B isn't something that's crucial but it definitely helps. He also provides quality at bats. I believe this is under rated in baseball and won't really show up in stats but he works the count, fouls off a bunch of pitches, and takes a bunch of walks. This gets the pitch count up for pitchers and frustrates them as well. I think of that game a few weeks ago where in the 9th Joe and Sano both had quality at bats, took a ton of pitches and ultimately both drew walks. The game was ultimately won on a walk off because the pitcher was flustered, this kind of thing doesn't show up in box scores. I know it's not huge and doesn't justify his contract but it's something. We have bigger fish to fry and there's bigger problems with this team than joe. He's not going anywhere so we'd better get used to it

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I know I'm probably gonna get slammed for this but Mauer provides more value than we give him credit for on this board. I get it, he's slumping and not looking great, it took Morneau several years before he was back to a decent form and I believe Mauer will do the same.

Actually, after his lost 2011 season, Morneau has been pretty consistent at the plate.  The big change for him after that was slashing his K's upon leaving Minnesota (and getting a nice BABIP boost in Colorado).  Mauer may not have that luxury either, as his K's had already jumped before his injury.

 

 

He also provides quality at bats. I believe this is under rated in baseball and won't really show up in stats but he works the count, fouls off a bunch of pitches, and takes a bunch of walks.

Walks actually do show up in box scores.  At least most modern ones.  

[twinsfanstreif]

 

Walks actually do show up in box scores. At least most modern ones.

 

I understand that, I was referring to quality at bats that result in outs