The non-believers Journey, from Arian Foster

[Mike Sixel]

Other than the football part....this sounds eerily familiar.

 

Starting out argumentative, being afraid to admit things, realizing that it isn't about convincing anyone of anything other than sharing "this is what I believe".....

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13369076/houston-texans-arian-foster-goes-public-not-believing-god

 

[Craig Arko]

It's good to point out that not all of us are like Dawkins, Hitchens, or Harris; i.e., jerks about it.

 

This young man has nothing but my admiration for sense of self in what could be about the worst peer pressure situation imaginable. And kudos to those who accept him while maintaining their own beliefs. It's not a threat; it's diversity.

 

Which is how our species grows.

[Bark's Lounge]

Refreshing article. That's a tough business to work in to hold those views. He certainly has my respect, support and solidarity.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

It's good to point out that not all of us are like Dawkins, Hitchens, or Harris; i.e., jerks about it.

I am not denying that this quote is true, but I am certainly glad that their view points have been put out there and are available for all to see. Those three men mixed in with a few others have brought significant attention to this view of belief. I am grateful for their contribution.

[biggentleben]

Shame that a guy who has such a good approach to a pretty controversial topic is dealing with a fairly serious injury currently. While he and I are about exact opposite in our belief systems, I have incredible respect for someone who is able to remove prior Christian bashings, talk-downs, or bias in order to have an open and honest discussion as I have worked to do with many friends who are of different faiths or are not believers.

[TheLeviathan]

Foster has always been a deeply philosophical man, became a big fan of his a few years ago after hearing some other thoughtful comments from him.

 

I appreciate any person who can be balanced and thoughtful about religion, because that is damn hard to find it seems.

[freshinthehouse]

Echoing what Lev said, Foster is a really thoughtful, interesting guy.  I hope he can find a job in some form of media after his career is over.  

[drjim]

I personally found the section with his exchanges with Justin Forsett the most fascinating. Seems to be the closest to what I experience in exchanges with people of no faith and should be a model for conversation.

 

Christians should welcome thoughtful skeptics/agnostics/atheists, sharpens their faith and keeps them accountable.

[drjim]

 

It's good to point out that not all of us are like Dawkins, Hitchens, or Harris; i.e., jerks about it.

This young man has nothing but my admiration for sense of self in what could be about the worst peer pressure situation imaginable. And kudos to those who accept him while maintaining their own beliefs. It's not a threat; it's diversity.

Which is how our species grows.

 

On the flip side there are a lot of Justin Forsetts out there. Not all Christians are like Republican Presidential Candidates or Pat Robertson or Franklin Graham or whoever you want to reference.

[Mike Sixel]

Interestingly, an atheist friend of mine said I shouldn't call this "non believer"....since there is belief here. I'm still not all comfy being public about atheism.....or I wouldn't have used the euphemism.

[Craig Arko]

 

On the flip side there are a lot of Justin Forsetts out there. Not all Christians are like Republican Presidential Candidates or Pat Robertson or Franklin Graham or whoever you want to reference.

Two of my favorite people:

 

http://vaticanobservatory.org/about-us/personnel-and-research/73-personnel-and-research/brother-guy/325-brother-guy

 

 

http://www.dalailama.com/

 

[Mike Sixel]

Obviously, big fan of the dalai lama.

[Turd Furgeson]

I have a lot of respect for him to tell everyone he's an atheist. It's very difficult to tell people that, especially if they are religious because there is a negative stigma with the word. I still haven't told my parents I'm an atheist, they are deeply religious, I used to be and I know that it will be very hard for them to accept. 

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I have a lot of respect for him to tell everyone he's an atheist. It's very difficult to tell people that, especially if they are religious because there is a negative stigma with the word. I still haven't told my parents I'm an atheist, they are deeply religious, I used to be and I know that it will be very hard for them to accept. 

It might be tough at first, but you are their flesh and blood -  I hope they come through for you.

 

You have my solidarity brother!

[Turd Furgeson]

 

It might be tough at first, but you are their flesh and blood -  I hope they come through for you.

 

You have my solidarity brother!

Thank you! You know, I've gone back and forth on whether it's really important that they know but I hate living a lie pretending to pray at every meal, going to church with them on Sundays when I am home visiting. I also think it probably is important that people are public about it if they do not believe because it will help to remove that negative stigma associated with the idea of not believing in a god. 

[biggentleben]

 

Thank you! You know, I've gone back and forth on whether it's really important that they know but I hate living a lie pretending to pray at every meal, going to church with them on Sundays when I am home visiting. I also think it probably is important that people are public about it if they do not believe because it will help to remove that negative stigma associated with the idea of not believing in a god. 

 

Being a family who has atheist members yet has very strong religion, I've found that no one says a word when they simply observe a moment of silence as the rest of the family says grace or declines to go to mass or service on Christmas Eve and instead stays home.

[Vanimal46]

 

I have a lot of respect for him to tell everyone he's an atheist. It's very difficult to tell people that, especially if they are religious because there is a negative stigma with the word. I still haven't told my parents I'm an atheist, they are deeply religious, I used to be and I know that it will be very hard for them to accept. 

 

I'm with you Turd... I'm not sure the proper terminology to use: atheist or secular, but I know the feeling you're going through. My parents are actively involved in the church, and when I was younger they did their best to instill the values in me with confirmation, communion, the whole nine yards. It could have been a number of factors, from the church we went to, format of the church service, or something else. For some reason it didn't click with me, and I've yet to tell them my true feelings about it.

 

Back to the article, Arian Foster has gained a new fan, and he articulated his thoughts on the subject much better than I ever could.  

[biggentleben]

 

Being a family who has atheist members yet has very strong religion, I've found that no one says a word when they simply observe a moment of silence as the rest of the family says grace or declines to go to mass or service on Christmas Eve and instead stays home.

 

This sounded a lot worse in re-reading it, so I wanted to explain a bit further. We've never had any family question or comment before, during, or after table grace because someone was not praying. Part of that is the high level of German ancestry in my family, which is heavily live and let live. so prayer is intended to be incredibly private whether or not one is speaking a table grace out loud. We also have multiple Christian faiths in my family, so some will head to mass at 10pm Christmas Eve, others go to their church's service earlier on Christmas evening, some go to church on Christmas morning, so there's quite a bit of diversity in those who are Christian in the family, let alone the atheist and Wiccan members of the family. While I have had some great conversations with my cousins who believe differently, that can be said of my conversations with those who are Catholic or those who are Atheist.

 

I won't say my family is perfect and would be easy to "come out" to, but I hope your family would understand and respect your decision and your life path.

[Shane Wahl]

 

Other than the football part....this sounds eerily familiar.

 

Starting out argumentative, being afraid to admit things, realizing that it isn't about convincing anyone of anything other than sharing "this is what I believe".....

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13369076/houston-texans-arian-foster-goes-public-not-believing-god

 

Thanks for posting this. I somehow had not seen it or heard about it at all. Great read and story.

[Craig Arko]

This article cuts across many of the recent threads here; maybe it fits in this one the best.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/08/10/431205042/should-we-distrust-atheists

[jimmer]

 

This article cuts across many of the recent threads here; maybe it fits in this one the best.

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/08/10/431205042/should-we-distrust-atheists

There should be a few more similar studies done.  Like whether or not voters would vote for a person who doesn't believe in the Lochness Monster, Sasquatch, Psychics, and Santa Claus.  Of course, there would have to be four different studies done. :-)

 

Anyway, throughout history, a huge chunk of the very worst things done were done in the name of religion, or at least using religion as an excuse.  Based on that, it's be funny that people who believe in a deity believe they can claim the moral high ground.

 

And, really, if you need to believe in a deity (and I imagine his/her eternal wrath) to make you act moral, have to wonder how moral you really are to begin with.  

[Craig Arko]

There should be a few more similar studies done.  Like whether or not voters would vote for a person who doesn't believe in the Lochness Monster, Sasquatch, Psychics, and Santa Claus.  Of course, there would have to be four different studies done.

 

You may find useful information in the archives at JREF.

 

http://web.randi.org/about.html

[TheLeviathan]

 

And, really, if you need to believe in a deity (and I imagine his/her eternal wrath) to make you act moral, have to wonder how moral you really are to begin with.  

 

I don't know about that, there isn't exactly philosophical consensus on moral character necessarily needing to be intrinsic.  We've long looked to extrinsic forces for moral guidance, including other people.

 

Plus, I've always imagined for most people "God" just sort of replaces "mom/dad" as you get older.  That relationship (including, to a smaller degree, the "wrath" of parenting figures) is highly influential to shaping moral character.

[biggentleben]

 

Plus, I've always imagined for most people "God" just sort of replaces "mom/dad" as you get older.  That relationship (including, to a smaller degree, the "wrath" of parenting figures) is highly influential to shaping moral character.

 

And I have never experienced this. The God of my youth is the God I know and experience today in my faith journey, so I've never understood this line of thought as many of my friends growing up and from college echo a similar consistency in God's role in their life. I imagine there are some whose view of God shifts as you describe, but for many, the fact that God's role and person does not change is what adds to an adult belief from a childhood faith.

[TheLeviathan]

 

And I have never experienced this. The God of my youth is the God I know and experience today in my faith journey, so I've never understood this line of thought as many of my friends growing up and from college echo a similar consistency in God's role in their life. I imagine there are some whose view of God shifts as you describe, but for many, the fact that God's role and person does not change is what adds to an adult belief from a childhood faith.

 

I wasn't suggesting it changed, I was suggesting that the role of god acts that way for many people.  Likely you learned of god as an authority figure whose discipline was to be both loved and feared, so as a sort of third parent.  

[Craig Arko]

 

Anyway, throughout history, a huge chunk of the very worst things done were done in the name of religion, or at least using religion as an excuse.  Based on that, it's be funny that people who believe in a deity believe they can claim the moral high ground.

I've been thinking about this part a bit. While there are some very terrible truths there, I also have to bring up the contributions to music, architecture, painting, sculpture, literature, poetry, and some branches of philosophy. And recall the Muslim scholars who kept mathematics and astronomy alive during the European Dark Ages.

 

So while never forgetting the bad, it's also worth it to acknowledge the good, don't you think?

[biggentleben]

 

I wasn't suggesting it changed, I was suggesting that the role of god acts that way for many people.  Likely you learned of god as an authority figure whose discipline was to be both loved and feared, so as a sort of third parent.  

 

I can't really articulate it perfectly, but not exactly this. I have never had a "fear" of God. More of a respect of the power, akin to respect of the "power" of a political leader, but never really a fear of the person. My parents had a set of rules and I always viewed that as I do local government, dominion over me for this time and this place. God I view as having my eternal home in mind, so the "rules" are not as much cut and dry, action and punishment, as worldly rules are set.

[jimmer]

 

I've been thinking about this part a bit. While there are some very terrible truths there, I also have to bring up the contributions to music, architecture, painting, sculpture, literature, poetry, and some branches of philosophy. And recall the Muslim scholars who kept mathematics and astronomy alive during the European Dark Ages.

 

So while never forgetting the bad, it's also worth it to acknowledge the good, don't you think?

I tried to respond to this in a PM, but it seems you have blocked PMs from me (according to the system).

[Craig Arko]

 

I tried to respond to this in a PM, but it seems you have blocked PMs from me (according to the system).

I block PM's from lots of people. Try again now.

[drjim]

I've been thinking about this part a bit. While there are some very terrible truths there, I also have to bring up the contributions to music, architecture, painting, sculpture, literature, poetry, and some branches of philosophy. And recall the Muslim scholars who kept mathematics and astronomy alive during the European Dark Ages.

 

So while never forgetting the bad, it's also worth it to acknowledge the good, don't you think?

I also think the claim that much of the bad throughout history was done in the name of religion really undersells the impact of economics and straight power politics.

 

Religion was certainly used to whip up people into a frenzy to go fight and die for a sovereign but I'm extremely skeptical that rulers (with some exceptions) cared all that much about it.