2016 Election Thread

[glunn]

 

Pretty much. So many frustrated people out there ... willing to just say '**** it, I'm done' and there it is ... we'll see how it goes. (And yes, I know that was rather simplistic, but that's all I've got tonight.)

Maybe we need to hit bottom before we can get better over the long run.

 

 

[LaBombo]

 

Again though, this is easier said than done.  Hell, a borderline third party candidate with a surging popularity base (Bernie) couldn't even get the Dems to give him a fair shot.  Imagine what it's like if you're outside the party if they'll do that to someone who plays by their own rules?

Agreed, but at the local level and, outside of big bruisers like CA and NY, the state level, you can do more with less money, and with less outside interference.  And Sanders was always an opposition-oriented far left voice in Congress.

 

A centrist independent with a track record of success as governor in a populous state would have an easier time making national inroads than a fringe-y independent like Sanders.  You're right, though, about either party's built in immune system making it hard for any outsider to get a fair shake.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Truth is a hard thing to dispel.  The left is going to have to figure out that while a lot of the resentment leveled at them is ridiculous, there are kernels of truth in it too.  Those kernels are central to what is happening tonight.

 

At least, that's the vibe I get from the areas I'm from in rural Minnesota.

Nothing ridiculous about it. The left is doing nothing to honestly address the issues of ordinary people or the future, as you yourself have warned throughout this thread.

 

Just one example. In 2012, the MN-DFL won a senate majority. The first thing on their agenda was to approve a brand new $90 million dollar office building for themselves. (I realize this is a local Twins board and there may be a reader here who was directly involved with that.)

 

Trump's status and message as an outsider was like lighting a match.

 

[nicksaviking]

Is it almost better to lose now? Unless something big changes in the next four years now, whoever wins is probably only a four term president. Can the elderly SC justices hold on four more years?

[Mike Sixel]

I am literally losing hope for the entire planet.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Agreed, but at the local level and, outside of big bruisers like CA and NY, the state level, you can do more with less money, and with less outside interference.  And Sanders was always an opposition-oriented far left voice in Congress.

 

A centrist independent with a track record of success as governor in a populous state would have an easier time making national inroads than a fringe-y independent like Sanders.  You're right, though, about either party's built in immune system making it hard for any outsider to get a fair shake.

 

My suggestion would be to go back and look at that discussion, it might be harder on the local level than you think.  There are all kinds of ridiculous rules out there to suppress third party runs.  In that conversation I pointed out how obnoxious the differences were in Illinois for third parties.  They had to have exponentially more signatures, they had to field a candidate for every position, they constantly had their signatures challenged in expensive, time consuming court cases, etc.

 

I agree with your general point, but what I'm pointing out is that while that would be great to happen, practically speaking the two parties make sure it's incredibly difficult and often bordering on the impossible.  

[LaBombo]

 

 

I think a lot of these people view Trump as a third party candidate. Probably something we all will look back at and say , oh duh, maybe we should have seen this coming.

Agreed, and I was thinking about editing my post to reflect that.  And perhaps he was a third party candidate in the most relevant way, which was that the Republican party's power brokers saw him as an outsider and a threat.

 

Trump ahead by 7,700 in Pennsylvania and projected to win Iowa by CNN.

 

Wolf Blitzer is entirely professional 99% of the time tonight, but on a couple of swing state calls for Trump, you can tell that he's just millimeters from losing his sh*t on live, worldwide television.  What a crazy night.

[Squirrel]

 

Is it almost better to lose now? Unless something big changes in the next four years now, whoever wins is probably only a four term president. Can the elderly SC justices hold on four more years?

No, I don't think they can.

[twinsnorth49]

I am literally losing hope for the entire planet.

Me too.

[PseudoSABR]

I've got to eat a lot of crow about what I thought I'd see tonight.  No matter the called result; there's enough close races, that litigation is likely and we'll be in doubt about the true result for some time, I imagine. In any case, I underestimated the support for Trump by a wide margin.  For my part, I watched this election like a bizarre accident happening right and front of me, critiqued from afar, and I didn't do much to stop it.   

[TheLeviathan]

 

Nothing ridiculous about it. The left is doing nothing to honestly address the issues of ordinary people or the future, as you yourself have warned throughout this thread.

 

Just one example. In 2012, the MN-DFL won a senate majority. The first thing on their agenda was to approve a brand new $90 million dollar office building for themselves. (I realize this is a local Twins board and there may be a reader here who was directly involved with that.)

 

Trump's status and message as an outsider was like lighting a match.

 

Some of it is ridiculous.  It's based in racism and gender issues along with a host of other awful *@$% I can't stand, but what is true is that the left has long ignored the middle class.  And, more importantly, openly despised the white lower class.

 

As much as we justifiably lob bombs at the right wing for sucking up to their money base and the wealthy, the left is just as guilty sucking up to their base.  The middle gets lost by both, but at least the right wing isn't openly hostile, that's the difference.  And they are paying for their hostility tonight.

 

I imagine in 4-8 years the right wing will pay for it similarly when a Trump presidency does nothing for them either.

[Mike Sixel]

Some of it is ridiculous. It's based in racism and gender issues along with a host of other awful *@$% I can't stand, but what is true is that the left has long ignored the middle class. And, more importantly, openly despised the white lower class.

 

As much as we justifiably lob bombs at the right wing for sucking up to their money base and the wealthy, the left is just as guilty sucking up to their base. The middle gets lost by both, but at least the right wing isn't openly hostile, that's the difference. And they are paying for their hostility tonight.

 

I imagine in 4-8 years the right wing will pay for it similarly when a Trump presidency does nothing for them either.

You think? This dumbing down of the country and gerrymandering worked. What undoes stupid and crookedness?

[LaBombo]

 

My suggestion would be to go back and look at that discussion, it might be harder on the local level than you think.  There are all kinds of ridiculous rules out there to suppress third party runs.  In that conversation I pointed out how obnoxious the differences were in Illinois for third parties.  They had to have exponentially more signatures, they had to field a candidate for every position, they constantly had their signatures challenged in expensive, time consuming court cases, etc.

 

I agree with your general point, but what I'm pointing out is that while that would be great to happen, practically speaking the two parties make sure it's incredibly difficult and often bordering on the impossible.  

Fair enough.  My guess is that given Illinois' history, its laws hindering third parties were maybe the consolation prize won while trying to legislate the Republican party out of existence in the state as well.

 

Ok, I'm joking, but not by much.  Anyway, I've only ever lived in two states long enough to vote in their elections, but I've seen elections in enough different ones to have seen some relevant state and local independents. But I'll go back and read your description of Illinois and its obstacle course for 3rd parties, and contemplate some more.

[TheLeviathan]

 

You think? This dumbing down of the country and gerrymandering worked. What undoes stupid and crookedness?

 

That's a good question.  I'm not sure, but doesn't this feel like an outright rejection of one party sort of like what propelled Obama up into prominence?

 

It seems like another emotional shift built out of frustration.  But I don't know if anything undoes crookedness, it would appear to be that some people think Trump is that solution.  I tend to think we have to get to the root of the frustration and I'm not sure either party really wants to do that.

 

I'm spitballing, kind of shocked.  What do you think about your own question?

[LaBombo]

 

My favorite thing on nights the Dems are winning is to turn to Fox News and watch the bitter tears. Turnabout fair play here tonight.

My guess is that some younger career behind-the-scenes politicos and money people in both camps have both been looking at this election as a pyrrhic victory at best.

 

The unfavorable/untrustworthy ratings of the candidates and the likely congressional gridlock and uncertain national mood guarantees neither candidate will enter office with a national mandate.  And other than the Supreme Court, there are few issues that break along traditionally partisan lines and present opportunities for shovel-ready change by executive actions of a new president

 

But worse, both candidates have large potential downside as president.  Trump's potentially terrible liabilities have been exposed at length, and he's no friend to many Republicans in Congress anyway.

 

But Hillary as president is also a potential albatross for her party, but without her party having an escape hatch of dismissing her as an outsider and aberration like Trump can be.

[LaBombo]

Hillary +18 in NH with 79% of the votes in.

 

Not 18%, 18 votes.

 

Good lord, this election is going to come down to a recount of one tiny New Hampshire village's votes, and these guys will turn out to be the election judges.

 

[Mike Sixel]

I think the gop has been cutting education spending and ripping on intelligence as a plan to dumb down the country so they can pollute and take all our money for over two decades now....I have been predicting this for most of that time. I don't know how you undo that. And the gerrymandering is almost unstoppable now.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I think the gop has been cutting education spending and ripping on intelligence as a plan to dumb down the country so they can pollute and take all our money for over two decades now....I have been predicting this for most of that time. I don't know how you undo that. And the gerrymandering is almost unstoppable now.

 

That's probably a bit too conspiracy-theoryish for me, but I hear what you're saying.  The gerrymandering thing is absolutely right, the House is pretty much locked in for the Republicans for as long as we can foresee.

[twinsnorth49]

This is who the majority of America want as their leader? This is the change they want?

 

The shocking stupidity involved in this hurts my brain. I can't put into words how disappointed I am at the willful choice so many people have made, to put a person like this in such an important office.

 

For shame America, you've really outdone yourself this time.

[Bark's Lounge]

I like everyone who posts on this thread without a doubt.

 

Saying that, we get what we get, and who we vote for.

 

I commend the white trash and white supremacist's for getting their vote out. Good job, you scum.

 

I really don't think there is any such thing as putting a good foot forward, we always seem to step backwards when we get to a positive point.

 

My hands are clean of it. I do not care anymore. I am quitting my job tomorrow and riding the wave of **** It! I'm sure a great deal of you do well for yourselves, I do not, what's the point?

 

America is sad, and a very sick beast.

[TheLeviathan]

Not only is Trump going to win, he may win comfortably.  Sweet Christmas.

[Squirrel]

 

This is who the majority of America want as their leader? This is the change they want?

The shocking stupidity involved in this hurts my brain. I can't put into words how disappointed I am at the willful choice so many people have made, to put a person like this in such an important office.

For shame America, you've really outdone yourself this time.

You know we're all moving in with you, right?

[nicksaviking]

I think the gop has been cutting education spending and ripping on intelligence as a plan to dumb down the country so they can pollute and take all our money for over two decades now....I have been predicting this for most of that time. I don't know how you undo that. And the gerrymandering is almost unstoppable now.

I still think it's a fruitless battle in the long run, evolution is inevitable even if Conservatives try to drag their feet. People are flocking to liberal metro areas like Denver, Portland, Seattle and Las Vegas. Rust Belt states and rural areas are losing population/electoral votes (sadly) to these progressive areas like never before. This is a step back but we will get back on track.

 

Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

[LaBombo]

 

This is who the majority of America want as their leader? This is the change they want?

The shocking stupidity involved in this hurts my brain. I can't put into words how disappointed I am at the willful choice so many people have made, to put a person like this in such an important office.

For shame America, you've really outdone yourself this time.

 

I trust that you're familiar with the difference between a majority and a plurality, yes?

 

Not that it should matter, but I didn't vote for either of these two knuckleheads.  I'm one of the idiots who went to the trouble of voting but threw away my presidential vote on a third party candidate.

 

 

 

[Bark's Lounge]

 

This is who the majority of America want as their leader? This is the change they want?

The shocking stupidity involved in this hurts my brain. I can't put into words how disappointed I am at the willful choice so many people have made, to put a person like this in such an important office.

For shame America, you've really outdone yourself this time.

Twins North is 100% right! America is broken down in a world of non-mechanics. I am ashamed of this country. Anyone who has there head on straight would not disagree.

[PseudoSABR]

Will Clinton win the popular vote and Trump win the EC.  That's what the NY Times thingy says. (/hattip BeenHazy)

[Bark's Lounge]

 

You know we're all moving in with you, right?

 This is not a joke to me. WE ARE moving in with him.

[LaBombo]

 

 

I still think it's a fruitless battle in the long run, evolution is inevitable even if Conservatives try to drag their feet. People are flocking to liberal metro areas like Denver, Portland, Seattle and Los Vegas. Rust Belt states and rural areas are losing population/electoral votes (sadly) to these progressive areas like never before. This is a step back but we will get back on track.

Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

 

If this was the final election in which rural and Rust Belt Americans end up playing a pivotal role, then they picked a strange candidate for their last hurrah, perhaps to their eventual buyer's remorse.

 

And while i completely agree that the demographics favor the Democratic party in the future, I'm not entirely sure that Democrats fully appreciate the long term negative effects on America brought about by the alienation of rural and Rust Belt Americans and the erosion of their place in our nation.

 

In any case, the nation has survived clunker presidents before, and it can again if we put in the work.

[twinsnorth49]

You know we're all moving in with you, right?

I'm too disgusted with Americans right now. I'm building a wall.

[Squirrel]

 

 This is not a joke to me. WE ARE moving in with him.

It's not so easy to just move to Canada. I've done it. You either have to prove you can support yourself or you have to find a job with a company that will support your move there. And for that job, you have to have skills that Canada needs and wants and can't find within their own borders. If you are self-employed and have the type of work that can move anywhere, then you'll be okay. If not, good luck.