Alex Meyer -2015

[twinssouth]

5 IP.  H.  3 BB. 9 K.

Yupper, he finished the 5th.. Baby Steps. He's getting there. IF he finishes the 6th, will be a record. BUT, he's already at 83 pitches. So, if they send him out for the 6th, he'll go way pass the magic 100. Should be interesting. What's maddening about Meyer, is he walks a buck63 hitter in Ka'kauna (or something like that) on 4 straight pitches, then turns around and strikes out their best hitter in Mastenson (?)a 300 hitter, in 3 straight. So far, I'm loving it

[jokin]

6 IP 11 K  0 ER

 

 

96 pitches, so probably done for the day. Very encouraging, to say the least. 

[tobi0040]

Gunn started another thread. 

 

Let's combine here:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/17793-alex-meyer-is-having-a-good-game/

[markos]

As duly noted above, Meyer had a great start on Tuesday. His final line:

 

6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 11 SO

 

It was very nice to see Meyer get back on track. As for how this will impact his promotion schedule, I have to admit that I have basically given up guessing about when Meyer will be deemed "ready." I was probably not the only person who had a little deja vu after hearing about Meyer's most recent start. Last year (almost to the day - 4/23/2014) Meyer had an almost identical start:

 

6 2/3 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 11 SO

 

This was the start that caused Wil Middlebrooks to ask how the Twins could possibly have 5 starters better than Meyer in the majors. And Meyer followed that up with another great start. However, as we all know, those back-to-back starts did not merit a callup to the big leagues, and shortly thereafter he start to scuffle again. Hopefully Meyer can avoid scuffling this time, and force his way into the major league rotation sooner rather than later.

[jokin]

 

As duly noted above, Meyer had a great start on Tuesday. His final line:

 

6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 11 SO

 

It was very nice to see Meyer get back on track. As for how this will impact his promotion schedule, I have to admit that I have basically given up guessing about when Meyer will be deemed "ready." I was probably not the only person who had a little deja vu after hearing about Meyer's most recent start. Last year (almost to the day - 4/23/2014) Meyer had an almost identical start:

 

6 2/3 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 11 SO

 

This was the start that caused Wil Middlebrooks to ask how the Twins could possibly have 5 starters better than Meyer in the majors. And Meyer followed that up with another great start. However, as we all know, those back-to-back starts did not merit a callup to the big leagues, and shortly thereafter he start to scuffle again. Hopefully Meyer can avoid scuffling this time, and force his way into the major league rotation sooner rather than later.

 

Great stuff, Markos.  The drama continues and is eerily ringing familiar.  

 

I suppose besides along with the Meyer scuffling and the Meyer gems, some folks will also be needlessly speculating if the Super Two date is coming into play.  Perhaps 3 straight games of 11Ks or better, rather than 2, will be enough to kick the doors down and end this nonsense, but it's far from clear who's place he takes in the rotation, especially after Pelfrey's performance Wednesday night. 

[bulldozier14]

 

 

 

It was very nice to see Meyer get back on track. As for how this will impact his promotion schedule, I have to admit that I have basically given up guessing about when Meyer will be deemed "ready." I was probably not the only person who had a little deja vu after hearing about Meyer's most recent start. Last year (almost to the day - 4/23/2014) Meyer had an almost identical start:

 

6 2/3 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 11 SO

 

This was the start that caused Wil Middlebrooks to ask how the Twins could possibly have 5 starters better than Meyer in the majors. And Meyer followed that up with another great start. However, as we all know, those back-to-back starts did not merit a callup to the big leagues, and shortly thereafter he start to scuffle again. Hopefully Meyer can avoid scuffling this time, and force his way into the major league rotation sooner rather than later.

 

Didn't he get the shoulder soreness shortly after that? I think he would have been up if he hadn't gotten hurt. He's going to have a higher walk rate- we are going to have to live with that, at least for a while. The hope is he can still be an effective pitcher if his stuff is close to unhittable, even if it's often not in the strike zone. Maybe eventually he can hone his control and become an ace (a la Randy Johnson). 

[markos]

 

Didn't he get the shoulder soreness shortly after that? I think he would have been up if he hadn't gotten hurt. He's going to have a higher walk rate- we are going to have to live with that, at least for a while. The hope is he can still be an effective pitcher if his stuff is close to unhittable, even if it's often not in the strike zone. Maybe eventually he can hone his control and become an ace (a la Randy Johnson). 

To the best of my knowledge Meyer was not injured after that. He didn't miss any starts, and there were no announcements of any injury. He was shut down at the end of the year due to a shoulder injury, but that was in early September. However, I speculated that he might be injured (or experiencing some soreness) after those late April starts last year because he wasn't allowed (or able) to throw over 90 pitches in a game (and averaged less than 80) for the following two months. But that was just my own speculation.

[jokin]

 

To the best of my knowledge Meyer was not injured after that. He didn't miss any starts, and there were no announcements of any injury. He was shut down at the end of the year due to a shoulder injury, but that was in early September. However, I speculated that he might be injured (or experiencing some soreness) after those late April starts last year because he wasn't allowed (or able) to throw over 90 pitches in a game (and averaged less than 80) for the following two months. But that was just my own speculation.

 

I believe Rob Antony was quoted that the club had imposed the pitch limit as well as the cumulative innings pitched limit early on, and I believe Ryan supported that notion later on.  I think it was pre-determined that the club's intent was for Meyer to get through a "full season" of 130 or so innings @ AAA without a health issue, a major league call-up really wasn't ever on the front-burner. 

[markos]

Since my last update, Meyer has had two starts, one good and one bad. The first start happened on April 28th, and it wasn't very good. He only finished 4 innings and allowed 9 hits and 5 runs. He didn't walk anyone, but only had two strikeouts. His second start was on May 3rd, and it was much better. He pitched into the 8th inning, gave up only 6 hits and 3 runs. He did allow 4 walks but also had 6 strikeouts. 

 

This is the first time in his career that Meyer has made it past the 7th inning, and only the 3rd or 4th time that he has made it past the 6th inning. He also threw 104 pitches, which I believe is a career high. Considering that durability is one of the major question marks with Meyer, it was good to see him get extended deeper into games. Hopefully his arm responds well and he will continue to pitch like that.

[tobi0040]

 

Since my last update, Meyer has had two starts, one good and one bad. The first start happened on April 28th, and it wasn't very good. He only finished 4 innings and allowed 9 hits and 5 runs. He didn't walk anyone, but only had two strikeouts. His second start was on May 3rd, and it was much better. He pitched into the 8th inning, gave up only 6 hits and 3 runs. He did allow 4 walks but also had 6 strikeouts. 

 

This is the first time in his career that Meyer has made it past the 7th inning, and only the 3rd or 4th time that he has made it past the 6th inning. He also threw 104 pitches, which I believe is a career high. Considering that durability is one of the major question marks with Meyer, it was good to see him get extended deeper into games. Hopefully his arm responds well and he will continue to pitch like that.

 

He only has 7 BB in his last 3 starts (15.1 IP).  19 K's.  If he stays in the 4 BB / 9 range I think he is going to be a really good pitcher.  I am encouraged by the lack of BB's the last three starts.

[tobi0040]

After his first two starts, Meyer has 26 IP and only 10 BB (3.47 per 9).  His hits per 9 are kind of mind boggling….44 H in 34 IP.  But that has never been an issue for him, so I don’t think that will last. The control is at least a bright spot.

 

His first two starts were 5, then 6 BB.  Then 3, 0, 4, 1, 2.

[markos]

Meyer pitched today (5/19) and again had a mediocre start. He only pitched 4 2/3 innings, and gave up 7 hits, 3 walks and hit a batter. Ultimately, he game up 4 runs. He did manage 7 strikeouts. 

 

It certainly doesn't seem like Meyer is making much improvement so far this season. He is uncharacteristically giving up a ton of hits, but he hasn't made any improvement in walk rate, and his strikeout rate has slips as well.

 

I don't know when it will be time to move Meyer to the bullpen, but I went through the effort of collecting Meyer's stats from the first 3 innings of all of his starts in the past two years:

 

1st inning: 24.1% K, 11.0% BB, .600 OPS against, 2.31 ERA

2nd inning: 29.1% K, 10.4% BB, .673 OPS against, 4.41 ERA

3rd inning: 20.5% K, 8.2% BB, .847 OPS against, 6.25 ERA

 

Perhaps these splits are random noise, but it certainly seems that Meyer loses effectiveness as the game progresses. Maybe it is a fatigue issue, or maybe he just has trouble the second time through the order. 

 

As an interesting blueprint for what Meyer may be like in the bullpen, consider Dellin Betances. He struggled with his control in the Yankee's system for several years, but after moving to bullpen in 2013 has been one of the most effective relievers in baseball (1.67 ERA over 118 innings the past two seasons). Like Meyer, he is also a very tall pitcher (6' 8") who throws very, very hard (averages 96.1 MPH this season). 

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

 

As an interesting blueprint for what Meyer may be like in the bullpen, consider Dellin Betances. He struggled with his control in the Yankee's system for several years, but after moving to bullpen in 2013 has been one of the most effective relievers in baseball (1.67 ERA over 118 innings the past two seasons). Like Meyer, he is also a very tall pitcher (6' 8") who throws very, very hard (averages 96.1 MPH this season). 

 

Interesting note. I'd have to go back to look at Betances stats in the minors. If Meyer can't work out his problems as a starter and turns into the kind of set up man Betances has been, there'll be some disappointment, but he could still be a key asset for the Twins.

[markos]

As most people have heard by now, Alex Meyer was moved to the bullpen for Rochester. Word is that this is a temporary move to get him back on track.

 

Here is the discussion here: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/18229-alex-meyer-moved-to-bullpen/

 

Also, here are two articles from the local beat writers:

http://www.startribune.com/twins-notes-meyer-sent-to-bullpen-at-class-aaa-rochester/304789931/

http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2015/05/22/twinsights-alex-meyer-moves-to-the-rochester-bullpen/

 

Here are a few of my own thoughts on the change:

 

* I suggested this move a while back. I think being able to pitch more often and in shorter stints may help him get his mechanics back in order.

* This has always been a concern with Meyer from day one, as almost every single prospect expert has mentioned the possibility that he may ultimately end up as a bullpen arm.

* There have been several comments that the Twins are trying to tweak his arm slot to improve his consistency and movement. I really, really hope this doesn't lead to an injury. Messing around with arm slots with a guy who has already had multiple shoulder issues seems scary.

* There have also been several comments that most of Meyer's current control issues are mostly mental. I think this is an absolutely terrible excuse, and it is just wrong to blame a pitcher's control issues on mental weakness. Pitching with good command is really, really difficult.

* This doesn't change my opinion of the Span trade, though to be fair I thought the return for Span was light as Meyer, though extremely talented, carried a significant amount of risk. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Meyer's first bullpen appearance was Monday. Not too bad.

 

1-2-3 inning with 2 K's. 13:9 pitches:strikes

 

He pitched the bottom of the 8th in a road loss, so would be credited with a game finished.

[markos]

Long overdue update for Meyer:

 

Since my last update, he has pitched in relief 8 times. Since his switch to the bullpen, they have kept him mostly stretched out for long relief, as he has pitched multiple innings 5 times, including one 4-inning game and two 3-inning games. He has yet to pitch in back-to-back games, and has averages about three days rest between appearances. 

 

So far the results have been outstanding. He has pitched a total of 16 1/3 innings and only allowed 3 runs. His strikeout rate (27.9%) and walk rate (8.8%) have taken significant steps in the right direction compared to when he was starting. 

 

Rhett Bollinger wrote a piece yesterday indicating that both Paul Molitor and Terry Ryan could see him getting called up to help in the bullpen. However, Ryan did stress that they aren't giving up on Meyer as a starter. http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/132295030/alex-meyer-emerging-as-option-for-twins-bullpen

[tobi0040]

 

Long overdue update for Meyer:

 

Since my last update, he has pitched in relief 8 times. Since his switch to the bullpen, they have kept him mostly stretched out for long relief, as he has pitched multiple innings 5 times, including one 4-inning game and two 3-inning games. He has yet to pitch in back-to-back games, and has averages about three days rest between appearances. 

 

So far the results have been outstanding. He has pitched a total of 16 1/3 innings and only allowed 3 runs. His strikeout rate (27.9%) and walk rate (8.8%) have taken significant steps in the right direction compared to when he was starting. 

 

Rhett Bollinger wrote a piece yesterday indicating that both Paul Molitor and Terry Ryan could see him getting called up to help in the bullpen. However, Ryan did stress that they aren't giving up on Meyer as a starter. http://m.twins.mlb.com/news/article/132295030/alex-meyer-emerging-as-option-for-twins-bullpen

 

My guess is he comes up in about a month and pitches from the pen, provided he keeps pitching well.  Then starts next year. 

[markos]

Alex Meyer has been called up to the big league bullpen. He will join the team in time for Friday's game.

 

My thoughts:

1) Though this may not be the best way to get the most value out of Meyer in the long-term, there is no doubt that this is the best move for the current Twins team. They need bullpen help, and Meyer can definitely provide that.

2) It will be very interesting to see if they end up converting Meyer back to a starter next season. If he is successful, they may decide to leave him in the bullpen. Especially considering the starting pitching glut they have for 2016.

3) Meyer has had fairly extreme splits this season. Watch to see how he does against lefties, and how much confidence Molitor has with him against lefties.

4) Meyer has yet to pitch in back-to-back games. I wonder how much they will utilize him. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they continue to monitor his usage for the first few weeks.

 

Discussion is ongoing here: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/18866-tonkin-optioned-who-replaces-him-its-meyer/page-5

 

and here: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/18883-alex-meyer-called-up/

[markos]

Update for Alex Meyer:

 

After two shaky appearances in the big leagues, he was demoted back to the AAA bullpen. Since the demotion, the results have not been good. In 8.1 innings (facing 41 batters), he has allowed 14 hits and 7 runs. His ERA in that stretch is 7.56, and opponents have a .926 OPS against him. 

 

Underneath all the hits and runs, his peripherals are still decent - K% of 25% and BB% of 10% are not out of line - and this most recent stretch of bad performance has been partially fueled by a .500 BABIP. So some of his issues could just be due to a stretch of bad luck. But then again, Meyer has struggled limiting hits and runs almost all season. After a long enough time, it becomes more difficult to excuse poor performance on luck, and instead the blame shifts to the player. I'm not sure if we've reached that point with Meyer, but I starting to think we are close.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Update for Alex Meyer:

 

After two shaky appearances in the big leagues, he was demoted back to the AAA bullpen. Since the demotion, the results have not been good. In 8.1 innings (facing 41 batters), he has allowed 14 hits and 7 runs. His ERA in that stretch is 7.56, and opponents have a .926 OPS against him. 

 

Underneath all the hits and runs, his peripherals are still decent - K% of 25% and BB% of 10% are not out of line - and this most recent stretch of bad performance has been partially fueled by a .500 BABIP. So some of his issues could just be due to a stretch of bad luck. But then again, Meyer has struggled limiting hits and runs almost all season. After a long enough time, it becomes more difficult to excuse poor performance on luck, and instead the blame shifts to the player. I'm not sure if we've reached that point with Meyer, but I starting to think we are close.

Thanks for the update!

 

I think we're already there with Meyer.  Call this season a mulligan.  I'd probably consider benching him the rest of the season to clear his head and then ship his butt off to the winter leagues.

 

[tobi0040]

 

 

 

Thanks for the update!

 

I think we're already there with Meyer.  Call this season a mulligan.  I'd probably consider benching him the rest of the season to clear his head and then ship his butt off to the winter leagues.

 

If he struggles to start next year, I think the next move is to have him slow his delivery down.  I just don't see how he will ever be able to repeat that jerky motion at 6'9.  The result is that he has absolutely no idea where that fastball is going.

 

I am thinking out loud here, but what if the fastball goes from 97-99 and wild to 95-96 with command by slowing down his delivery? That is still a plus pitch.  And it would set up his very good slider.  He is constantly behind in the count and can't use the slider right now.

 

 

[Kwak]

Meyer should be considered a relief pitcher only.  If he can develop consistency Meyer (like most pitchers in the high minors) might become a useful bullpen addition.  At this point, Meyer should be considered a project and not a prospect.

[tobi0040]

 

Meyer should be considered a relief pitcher only.  If he can develop consistency Meyer (like most pitchers in the high minors) might become a useful bullpen addition.  At this point, Meyer should be considered a project and not a prospect.

 

I would really, really love to argue with you here.  But he will be 26 next January.  Four years of pro ball after three years of college and he has very little control of his fastball. Hard to argue that is a big time prospect.

[goulik]

SMH, I really liked this trade at the time but this is the danger of trading for prospects. Maybe he will bloom late but I'm afraid the Nationals won this one and I hope we get at least a really good reliever eventually. On the other hand, I think we may be the winners with May! Who would thunk at that time?

PS where is Vanimal now?

[drjim]

 

SMH, I really liked this trade at the time but this is the danger of trading for prospects. Maybe he will bloom late but I'm afraid the Nationals won this one and I hope we get at least a really good reliever eventually. On the other hand, I think we may be the winners with May! Who would thunk at that time?
PS where is Vanimal now?

 

Reverting back to form pitching mop up innings and killing time until he is nontendered this offseason.

[jimbo92107]

I'd make Alex Meyer watch this video, then throw like this guy:

 

 

Could do worse, like skipping stones. Easy.

[Shane Wahl]

2015 AAA as starter:

 

39.1 IP, 7.09 ERA, 41 K, 24 BB

2015 AAA as reliever:

 

49.1 IP, 4.20 ERA, 54 K, 24 BB

 

Meyer was fairly solid in August out of the bullpen

 

 

I have absolutely no idea what to make out of him, but I would bet that the Twins are just hoping to make him Trevor May 2.0 out of the bullpen next year.