Rate the tools

[dgwills]

I was thinking about the importance of the different tools and I would like to hear what the members of Twins Daily think. We've had some toolsy guys flame out, so it is interesting to think about what tools are really important. One thing I got out of moneyball (the movie) was that the hit tool is underrated. That and walks are good of course. If you could give Aaron Hicks that tool he'd be amazing. Rosario could be a major leaguer with that tool alone. Perhaps we can meld them together. I'll let Mr Swanson do the photoshop.

Here's my opinion on rating position prospects: Hit tool 50 %, fielding 18%, power 17%,speed 10%,arm 5%. Of course some of these tools generally go together. How would you rate them?

 

[gunnarthor]

Yours sounds good.  When you look at the top end prospects that didn't fare well at the majors - guys like Francour, Delmon Young, Marte, Wood, etc - the biggest issue they had was poor control of the strike zone.  That isn't really one of the tools, per se. 

[maxisagod]

One thing I've notice is range beats arm for fielding. Cuddy always had a good arm, but put Denard in right and it was a whole different defense.  So I'd put arm last... power is expensive and speed can be felting. I'd put power over fielding, and Hit is number one. 

 

Hit

Power

Fielding

Speed

Arm 

[beckmt]

I agree hit is #1.  Power is a question of what you mean,  homeruns or gap power.  With the Twins and their ballpark, gap power and speed play better here than elsewhere.  Fielding to me is #2 with power #3.  Range is a case of positioning and pitching where your fielders are expecting.  Arm is a good asset, but if average is certainly only a small portion.  Revere was such a bad example on arm, but a good example on what teams will do to a very below average arm.  Speed is very important if you don't have a bash type of club.  Look what the Royals did with speed, very disruptive and forces very quick decisions on where the ball needs to be thrown.

Hit  - 55

Fielding 18

Speed -12

Power - 10

Arm -  5

[Seth Stohs]

tough question and it does seem like it changes in the industry fairly frequently.

 

Hit - If you're that good, you can get to the big leagues, but you do need more.

 

Speed - hugely important because it helps on offense and on defense, also speaks often to athleticism.

 

Fielding - if you can make the routine plays consistently, you have a chance.

 

Power - As mentioned, it is expensive, and there aren't many top caliber power hitters anymore.

 

Arm - Ben Revere has hit, field and speed, but he's still of value despite his arm. 

 

I guess that's the order I'd put them in right now. If we add the "new" tool of plate discipline, I'd put them probably even with fielding. Though I could argue for all three of them.

 

Percentages: 

Hit: 33%, Speed: 18%, Fielding 17%, Plate Discipline 17%, Power 14%, Arm 1%

[Brandon]

I am going to go with Hit first cause if you don't hit your not staying.

 

2nd is speed cause it makes for better offense and defense.  (and it hides mistakes on both)  you can break up a double play or if you take a bad route and are fast you can still catch the ball.

 

3rd is power.  (see Dave Kingman) he hung around cause he hit for power back in the day. there are lots of others this way too.  isn't that why we signed Thome back in 2010 he was slow, no average could walk but hit the ball real far. 

 

4.  Fielding (Florimon was a plus 2.0 WAR cause of his fielding in 2013, he is gone now cause that's all he could do)

 

5.  Arm,  Ben Revere, Johnny Damon need we say more?  These guys have some of the other tools that are important but couldn't throw.  plus if they are that bad they can always DH.  Who needs an arm when you an DH?

 

Power and Fielding are almost interchangeable in my book (see Kansas City (speed and defense)and Baltimore (Power) for example).  and I am basing this as a need for the team overall but I think the attributes should be redistributed differently throughout the lineup as speed is more important to the table setters and power is more important to 3-6 hitters.

 

% = 36% Hit, 25% speed 18% power and Fielding 3% ARM

[Steve Lein]

The thing with putting a percentage on the tools individually for every player, is it ignores the position they play.

 

For instance, defense is more important when you're talking about catchers, middle infielders, and center fielders.  Tools are re-arranged in value by scouts based on where the player plays on the diamond.  The scouting cliche is "Defense up the middle; power in the corners," right?

 

Check this out:  http://www.baseballexaminer.com/faqs/scouting_faq.htm

 

Kind of a nice article that discusses a bunch of relevant information related to a discussion about this type of thing.

 

Hitting is definitely the most important regardless, though.  If you can't hit as well as your team needs you too no matter your position, you're not going to stay long.

[ashbury]

Another thing about an individual tool is the tacit assumption about the other tools at the same time.  Which is the most important tool?  Depends if we are talking about high school levels of talent or someone close to the majors. 

• What one tool would give an otherwise talentless fool a shot at any time at all on a major league roster?  Either the hit tool or the defense tool probably has a shot. 
• Which tool would you add to someone who had passable but below-average tools otherwise, to give him a shot at a lengthy career?  I'd probably opt for power. 
• How about for a mediocrity to have a shot at a brief but illustrious career in the bigs?  Maybe speed would be the answer.

 

I do agree with the emerging consensus that arm is usually just an afterthought compared to the others.  The experience a couple of seasons ago with Ben Revere in right field changed my mind about that.  And I can't think of a scenario like the above items where adding an arm, instead of another tool first, is the answer.  "He's a rally-killer, and can't field a lick.  But man oh man, lookit that arm!"

[2wins87]

This is a great topic, really interesting.

 

I'm going to echo most everyone else in saying the hit tool is definitely #1, and also the hardest to measure quantitatively (Ok, maybe fielding is harder).

 

I was also thinking that position makes a pretty big difference.  I'd say arm can be fairly important for SS, 3B, and C somewhat important for 2B and OF (only somewhat for OF because it just doesn't come into play all that often and is totally overshadowed by range) and basically meaningless for 1B.

 

I would also put at least a third of the importance on non-tool skills.  In addition to plate discipline there is also baseball IQ, or situational awareness, or focus, or whatever you want to call it that comes into play all the time.  It shows up in a guys like Chase Utley who isn't all that fast but for years was one of the most successful base-stealers.  I can also think of lots of players, Delmon comes to mind, who often don't seem to know what's going on the time and don't make good plays because of it.

 

I think I'd break it down something like this, with variations in the tools based on position:

 

20% instincts, focus, etc.

15% plate-discipline

 

25% hit tool

15% fielding

13% power

10% speed

2% arm

[cgreuling]

I kind of think the hit tool includes plate discipline. You can't be a good hitter without knowing what to hit. It's not necessarily the ability to draw a walk cause there's been some very good/great hitters that didn't draw walks, they got hits (Kirby, Ichiro, Vlad Guerrero to name a few). With that being said, Hit tool has to be #1.

 

1. Hit Tool

2/3.Defense (Arm/Fielding) (I think this can vary, a guy with a great arm but less range can be just as effective as a guy with good range and a noodle arm)

4/5 Power/Speed - A tie?

 

I think we can all agree that if you can hit, there's always a place for you in MLB regardless of the other skills/tools.