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[Boom Boom]

Play him 4-5 times a week in LF and his defense will be fine.

 

With who else?  Santana in CF and Arcia in RF?   Blech. 

 

The Twins need a defensive upgrade in the outfield...

[goulik]

I think Kelly missed that defensive part. I like Tori as a club house leader and returning hero but defensively he had those bad defensive stats as a corner OF too...I still like the concept but he does not help our already poor defensive outfield.

[Mike Sixel]

Play him 4-5 times a week in LF and his defense will be fine.

 

Based on what? His stats in right are awful, for more than 1 year now.

[drjim]

Based on what? His stats in right are awful, for more than 1 year now.

 

LF is easier than RF. Limited playing time. Overall sketchiness of defensive metrics (which are in the ballpark of Melky Cabrera, someone people have been hankering for).

[Boom Boom]

LF is easier than RF. Limited playing time. Overall sketchiness of defensive metrics (which are in the ballpark of Melky Cabrera, someone people have been hankering for).

 

I'll be on record that I'm not particularly interested in Melky Cabrera either.

 

You've got to consider the other outfielders that would be playing with Hunter.  One will be Arcia, whose defense is brutal, to put it as delicately as I can.  The other looks like it's going to be Danny Santana, who isn't an outfielder.  I think the Twins need to aim as high as they can for a left fielder, and I'm not particularly interested in part-time clubhouse chemistry specialists on nostalgia contracts.

 

And I wouldn't hold my breath for Buxton to make his debut very early in 2015.

[drjim]

I'll be on record that I'm not particularly interested in Melky Cabrera either.

 

You've got to consider the other outfielders that would be playing with Hunter.  One will be Arcia, whose defense is brutal, to put it as delicately as I can.  The other looks like it's going to be Danny Santana, who isn't an outfielder.  I think the Twins need to aim as high as they can for a left fielder, and I'm not particularly interested in part-time clubhouse chemistry specialists on nostalgia contracts.

 

And I wouldn't hold my breath for Buxton to make his debut very early in 2015.

 

The issue is that the Twins can't sign a FA LF who will be a good hitter and good defender, that player doesn't exist. It will be easy to complain about the shortcomings of a potential FA but we should also acknowledge that there isn't a great FA alternative.

 

If a good defender is the priority, perhaps they should just stick with Schafer.

 

I agree that Buxton won't be up early, if at all, next year.

[tobi0040]

The issue is that the Twins can't sign a FA LF who will be a good hitter and good defender, that player doesn't exist. It will be easy to complain about the shortcomings of a potential FA but we should also acknowledge that there isn't a great FA alternative.

 

If a good defender is the priority, perhaps they should just stick with Schafer.

 

I agree that Buxton won't be up early, if at all, next year.

 

I agree. I think they can either get a guy that is adequate defensively and potentially plus offensively.  Swing a deal for Rasmus for example.

 

Or you take a young guy like Hicks or Rosario who is probably plus defensively in LF and has the potential to be adequate with the bat. 

[Kelly Vance]

Did you read the part where I said "defensive" metrics?

If he was on the Twins today, he would be their best defensive outfielder. Except maybe for Shafe.

[Badsmerf]

Can the "terrible" defensive stats be given for the argument against Hunter? I have a hard time believing Hunter went from the best OF in the league to "terrible." He isn't elite anymore, but I don't believe he's as bad as everyone is making him out to be. 

[DJL44]

Can the "terrible" defensive stats be given for the argument against Hunter? I have a hard time believing Hunter went from the best OF in the league to "terrible." He isn't elite anymore, but I don't believe he's as bad as everyone is making him out to be. 

 

You have a hard time believing Torii isn't 28 anymore and instead is 38?

[Badsmerf]

You have a hard time believing Torii isn't 28 anymore and instead is 38?

How much does that matter? Speed isn't the end all be all (and I'm sure he is still pretty fast). His instincts are what made him great, and those don't just go away. Again, I'd like evidence to support that claim.

[Mike Sixel]

How much does that matter? Speed isn't the end all be all (and I'm sure he is still pretty fast). His instincts are what made him great, and those don't just go away. Again, I'd like evidence to support that claim.

 

By that logic, I guess Rod Carew could still be playing, after all, it was his intelligence that helped make him a great hitter, not just his speed.

 

Torii is 38. His skills have declined. Eye test. Stats. They both agree on that.

[tobi0040]

How much does that matter? Speed isn't the end all be all (and I'm sure he is still pretty fast). His instincts are what made him great, and those don't just go away. Again, I'd like evidence to support that claim.

 

Baseball reference has his DWAR at -2.5 this year, -1.5 last year.

[DJL44]

How much does that matter? Speed isn't the end all be all (and I'm sure he is still pretty fast). His instincts are what made him great, and those don't just go away. Again, I'd like evidence to support that claim.

 

Speaking as someone who is 38, a lot.

[Mike Sixel]

What evidence, beyond defensive stats, do you want? I can't really offer any other evidence than pointing out that the outcomes achieved are getting worse by the year......

[drjim]

What evidence, beyond defensive stats, do you want? I can't really offer any other evidence than pointing out that the outcomes achieved are getting worse by the year......

 

I think you can have the position of acknowledging outcomes are getting worse each year and still think it is acceptable on a one year deal to play part time LF.

 

This is especially true when considering the alternatives. Again, no matter who is signed it will be easy to pick out flaws.

[DJL44]

Another year wasted on washed up has-beens won't inspire anyone to buy a ticket. Take a chance on players under 30 like Schafer instead.

[Badsmerf]

What evidence, beyond defensive stats, do you want? I can't really offer any other evidence than pointing out that the outcomes achieved are getting worse by the year......

I looked through his defensive stats too. He is obviously not the same fielder he used to be. Seems like he's been bad since getting to DET. I have to wonder if that is a complete coincidence. Either way, I'm sure he'd be upgrade to what the Twins have been seeing out there.

[Badsmerf]

Another year wasted on washed up has-beens won't inspire anyone to buy a ticket. Take a chance on players under 30 like Schafer instead.

While his defense is slipping, he still has a .772 OPS. I'd take that all day. Plus, his power will play up in TF.

[Mike Sixel]

I think you can have the position of acknowledging outcomes are getting worse each year and still think it is acceptable on a one year deal to play part time LF.

 

This is especially true when considering the alternatives. Again, no matter who is signed it will be easy to pick out flaws.

 

Unfortunately, I agree with all of this......

[tobi0040]

While his defense is slipping, he still has a .772 OPS. I'd take that all day. Plus, his power will play up in TF.

 

He is at a -2.5 dWAR and Josh was at -1.5 in fewer games.  I think it worked out to one loss per 46 games for Josh and one for every 36 games for Torii.  Baseball reference has Torii at -.4 Total WAR.   Might as well play Hicks or Rosario.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Melky's dWAR this season was *only* -1.1 - so if people want Torii, I think Melky is the better option of the two... He's (nearly) ten years younger, is a better hitter, and has played Left Field all year unike Torii, who last played in Left back in the year 2000.

 

in the year 2000 ....

 

It is a moot point though, as Toronto is going to extend a qualifying offer to Cabrera. If he's smart he'll just take their money after what happened to Ervin Santana and Nelson Cruz, who signed 1 year deals for less than the offer they declined; and Stephen Drew and Kendrys Morales, who basically have lost a season each.

 

Colby Rasmus looks like a good fit for the Twins, or yes, just roll with the prospects and try Free Agency in 2016 when there should be a couple options that are better than the current crop.    

[DJL44]

Colby Rasmus looks like a good fit for the Twins, or yes, just roll with the prospects and try Free Agency in 2016 when there should be a couple options that are better than the current crop.    

 

I like Colby Rasmus for the Twins too.

 

One issue with waiting for free agents is some of them will get an extension before they reach the market.

 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Yes, that's a big issue and just one of several issues with trying to fill holes on a roster via Free Agency.

 

Ideally, guys like Hicks and Arcia would have been better this year. If the homegrown prospects develop into good players, Hicks would be in CF, Arcia in RF and someone like Joe Benson would be our Left Fielder...

 

Oh well, they can't all be all-stars (or even ML-caliber starters). Some of the players will sign extensions, but some of them will be available in the offseason and/or during the 2015 season via trade if their current team thinks they can't (or don't want to) extend them. Hopefully the Twins can find an outfielder or two that can replace the missing defense from the last couple seasons.

[Mike Sixel]

It is also the issue with relying totally on your MiLB system.....Hicks and Benson were top prospects for this team (and Hicks in all of baseball at one point), and yet, they are are not MLB players yet (if ever). MOST minor leaguers do NOT become MLB players. Counting on that working all the time is not likely to work. 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Absolutely, it's a balance of developing in-house and filling in with other pieces via trade and free agency as needed. I think the Twins are due for some of these draft picks to work out, though. All this losing means that they've had several years in a row with top ten picks in the draft. Gibson will hopefully continue to improve, and Buxton, Berrios, Kohl Stewart, Gordon, etc. hopefully will have at least some success.

 

The point I'm making is that there's been some difficulty (either injury, poor development, or poor scouting) that has made the Twins' in-house options less desireable.

[Badsmerf]

He is at a -2.5 dWAR and Josh was at -1.5 in fewer games.  I think it worked out to one loss per 46 games for Josh and one for every 36 games for Torii.  Baseball reference has Torii at -.4 Total WAR.   Might as well play Hicks or Rosario.

Do you really think that statistic is correct? Hunter could be 50 and play better defense than Willingham did this year. I don't think difference in defense from Hicks to Hunter would be that great either. I think Hicks is a terrible defender. Has the tools, takes bad jumps, bad routes, bad fundamentals. Plus, Hicks can't hit enough to be a GG SS. Rosario needs to start playing baseball in March to get any kind of chance at the MLB in 2015. There are no in-house options. 

 

People advocating for Rasmus need to see that he isn't going to sign some 2 year deal. He'll want 5 years at 50 million. Want to pay that? I think it would be great to have Hunter come in for a couple years at the end of his career. I'm not sure if he would go for it, but he has had much better longevity than I ever expected.

[Mike Sixel]

ESPN recently wrote up on Detroit.....and said their defense was one of the worst in MLB, and specifically commented on how bad Hunter is......

 

What is more likely, people that watch every game and rank defense (or that are national writers and analysts) are right, or someone that sees Hunter about 5 games a year is right, about his defense?

 

I'm going with the numbers. 

[D. Hocking]

I noticed in one of his interviews when he was here last week Torii was extra-complimentary about the Twins organization and how the Twins play.  It reminded me a little of 2007, when he was interviewed at every away game, and he would say what a great town this would be to play in if he did not remain in MN.  It seemed like there were about ten cities where he said, this is one of the few places I can see myself play.  I think he was trying to plant some seeds in MN in case he does not have many options next year..  

 

That said, I think his time has past (which means we will probably sign him).  I will say, he remained a good, productive player longer than I anticipated.  I remember thinking when he signed the Angels contract that he would be in serious decline before it expired, but that was not the case..

[tobi0040]

Do you really think that statistic is correct? Hunter could be 50 and play better defense than Willingham did this year. I don't think difference in defense from Hicks to Hunter would be that great either. I think Hicks is a terrible defender. Has the tools, takes bad jumps, bad routes, bad fundamentals. Plus, Hicks can't hit enough to be a GG SS. Rosario needs to start playing baseball in March to get any kind of chance at the MLB in 2015. There are no in-house options. 

 

People advocating for Rasmus need to see that he isn't going to sign some 2 year deal. He'll want 5 years at 50 million. Want to pay that? I think it would be great to have Hunter come in for a couple years at the end of his career. I'm not sure if he would go for it, but he has had much better longevity than I ever expected.

 

I think defensive metrics move in the right direction....but they are extreme when they try and quantify thigs.   The downside to signing Hunter is it goes another year where we can blame the defense and not the pitching.