Article: Why is Joe Mauer Such a Lightning Rod?

[Beezer07]

Not all of the pitches that he doesn't swing at are "bad". I think what some of us would prefer is that he be more aggressive late in games. While it may not pad his stats overall, it might be more beneficial to the team.

 

I think he tries to get a good pitch to hit in every single at bat. I understand people want him to swing at the first pitch more often, but he just doesn't. The dude gets on base at a ridiculous rate year after year after year. He's actually being criticized because the rest of his team is not as good as him.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't see anyone suggesting that idea.

 

Really? Then what does this mean?

 

You'd rather he swung at bad pitches in the hope that...he accidentally got a hit?

[Mr. Brooks]

I think he tries to get a good pitch to hit in every single at bat. I understand people want him to swing at the first pitch more often, but he just doesn't. The dude gets on base at a ridiculous rate year after year after year. He's actually being criticized because the rest of his team is not as good as him.

 

The first 2 sentances seem to contradict themselves.

Often times the first pitch meatball down the middle is going to be the most hittable pitch he's going to get.

[Beezer07]

Really? Then what does this mean?

 

You'd rather he swung at bad pitches in the hope that...he accidentally got a hit?

 

That sometimes/very often he gets pitched around, especially late & close situations.

[Mr. Brooks]

That sometimes/very often he gets pitched around, especially late & close situations.

 

But not always. To assume that the poster he quoted is too stupid to know the difference between the PA's where he gets a couple good pitches but manages to coax a 7 or 8 pitch walk, and the obvious pitch arounds is pretty arrogant.

[TheLeviathan]

This is an absurd thing to say. You'd rather he swung at bad pitches in the hope that...he accidentally got a hit? I guarantee if he did swing at those pitches, the Mauer criticizers would be right back here talking about his high chase rate or impatience or blowing it with the game on the line.

 

This entire premise is based on the notion that every walk he takes only has bad pitches during the course of the at-bat. That seems to me to be the absurd notion.

 

He walked today after passing on at least one pitch that could have been driven. Frequently that pitch happens at 0-0 when he's basically wearing a flashing billboard to every pitcher that he won't swing no matter what they lob up to him.

[twinsnorth49]

But not always. To assume that the poster he quoted is too stupid to know the difference between the PA's where he gets a couple good pitches but manages to coax a 7 or 8 pitch walk, and the obvious pitch arounds is pretty arrogant.

 

I'll go with the judgment of the career .323 hitter, second guess away, that's not arrogant?

[Mr. Brooks]

I'll go with the judgment of the career .323 hitter, second guess away, that's not arrogant?

 

I'm not even sure what this means, or how it relates.

[gunnarthor]

Mauer's doubles and SLG by year:

 

2005, 26, .411

2006, 36, .507

2007, 27, .426

2008, 31, .451

2009, 30, .567

2010, 43, .469

2011, 15, .368

2012, 31, .446

2013, 34, .476

 

Doesn't really look like a singles hitter to me.

 

Yeah, but again, most of that was a product of his high avg. His iso% are usually below .150. And only one year did he finish top 10 in doubles (2010). He's finished top 10 in singles 3x.

[Craig Arko]

So Nick, has your question been satisfactorily answered?

[Jerr]

Yeah, but again, most of that was a product of his high avg. His iso% are usually below .150. And only one year did he finish top 10 in doubles (2010). He's finished top 10 in singles 3x.

 

So, now the argument turns to "only finished" in the top ten?

 

Amazing:p

[Jerr]

So Nick, has your question been satisfactorily answered?

 

[Mr. Brooks]

So, now the argument turns to "only finished" in the top ten?

 

Amazing:p

 

I think you misread his post Jerr.

 

He didn't say, "Mauer only finished in the top 10."

 

He said, "Mauer only finished in the top 10 one year."

[JB_Iowa]

Just saw a tweet from Andrew Walter (Twins Fan From Afar) pointing out this Mackey article:

 

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Mackey_Its_time_we_perceive_Joe_Mauer_for_who_he_really_is040914

 

 

It adds some perspective on Mauer's offensive stats. But also points out the longevity of those players. And, except for Boggs, it is hard to ignore the SB numbers.

[gunnarthor]

And for being the BEST Twin for those years, despite his injuries;).

 

This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think anyone ever said he wasn't a solid hitter with an elite swing. For me it's only about the money to the extent of what you get for the money.

Mauer only is truly elite at one thing, getting on base.

 

So congratulations, Joe. You are elite at the most important thing in baseball.

 

I cannot understand how people are so damned dumb not to see the statistics drawings them in the face. This isn't buried in a basement stuff, this is commonly available stuff.

 

Getting on base, good. Not getting in base, bad.

 

Again, people who criticize Mauer just don't bother to understand the modern game.

[gunnarthor]

So congratulations, Joe. You are elite at the most important thing in baseball.

 

But not the *only* thing in baseball.

[Jerr]

I think you misread his post Jerr.

 

He didn't say, "Mauer only finished in the top 10."

 

He said, "Mauer only finished in the top 10 one year."

 

No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

 

Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

 

I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

 

And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????

[Willihammer]

I don't think anyone ever said he wasn't a solid hitter with an elite swing. For me it's only about the money to the extent of what you get for the money.

Why does the money matter so much?

 

edit: So he's a little overpaid, bfd

[Squirrel]

Sometimes I wonder if this Mauer debate is entertainment vs sport. Maybe to some he's not worth the $23mil/year because he's not 'entertaining' enough (no fire, boring personality) and I'd buy into that. But I think he's worth it as a baseball athlete and what he brings to the sport. Not sure if that relates or not, but it's kind of how I think of it.

[Jerr]

This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...

 

Overall, for those years...and I have no stats to back it up, but I will start with 3 batting titles:p

[cmathewson]

Yeah, but again, most of that was a product of his high avg. His iso% are usually below .150. And only one year did he finish top 10 in doubles (2010). He's finished top 10 in singles 3x.

 

I fail to see how having a high average or being in the top 3 in singles is a bad thig, especially when I show that he consistently hits more than 30 doubles every year. My point was he is not just a singles hitter. But hitting singles and taking walks are not bad things, right?

[Brock Beauchamp]

But not the *only* thing in baseball.

 

Only, no. MOST IMPORTANT, yes.

 

I wish people didn't suck so hard at numbers. Math is not your enemy, folks. Embrace it.

[Mr. Brooks]

No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

 

Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

 

I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

 

And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????

 

Well then I think you are taking it out of context.

 

It didn't seem to me he was using the "top 10" to rip Mauer, but to point out that he's not quite the doubles machine that cmat was suggesting, as opposed to singles where he was more frequently in the top 10.

[Jerr]

This is more surprising that relevant but, according to WAR (with all it's flaws) Mauer has been the best Twins only 4 times and only the 2010 team was really, really good. Depending on the year, quite a few Twins were better than him - Perkins, Baker, Santana, Pavano, Cuddy, Hunter, Radke, Silva, Bartlett ...

 

And which of those players would you keep instead of Mauer??? Today????

[gunnarthor]

No, I got that....but are we now debating "in the top ten" ??? As to measuring his productivity???

 

Name a better Twin in Mauer's years.....

 

I just struggle with all the 'ripping" of him...I can find fault, but who would I replace him with?

 

And as to living in Fla. ??? With his money, who wouldn't????

 

I don't think anyone (at least not me) doesn't accept that he's been the best player from 2009-today. (Santana was the better player from 04-08). But I'm not sure that's the real issue. And I am glad he's a Twin and I hope he goes into the HOF. But he is a frustrating player to watch for several reasons that have been mentioned.

[Mr. Brooks]

Why does the money matter so much?

 

edit: So he's a little overpaid, bfd

 

Yeah the money is a ZERO issue.

If we were right up against payroll budget, then I could see the argument.

But as it is we are not even coming close to spending all the way to our budget.

[JB_Iowa]

I fail to see how having a high average or being in the top 3 in singles is a bad thig, especially when I show that he consistently hits more than 30 doubles every year. My point was he is not just a singles hitter. But hitting singles and taking walks are not bad things, right?

 

 

But part of it is what we BELIEVE he should be. We see that 6'5" frame, powerfully built and it is just hard to believe that he can't/doesn't hit more home runs.

 

It's a little bit mind-boggling.

[cmathewson]

But not the *only* thing in baseball.

 

Right. So there are maybe three guys who get on base at Mauer's rate and also hit a lot of homers. So your criticism is that he's not one of the three best players in all of baseball. I think you need to reset your standards.

[gunnarthor]

Only, no. MOST IMPORTANT, yes.

 

I wish people didn't suck so hard at numbers. Math is not your enemy, folks. Embrace it.

C'mon Brock. Most people haven't been insulting others.