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Why no heart? THIS is why... Continuation Discussion


Doc Munson

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Everyone has their own opinions, and I LOVE debating each side.

In discussion one commenter (Seth Stohs) Who I love reading his stuff and so should you!!! look up his posts they are great!!!  basically asked "what does "no heart" look like on TV"?

 

Well, win or lose against teh Angels tonight we are being shown the answer.  Yes people can make errors. That is not playign without heart, but allowing errors to compoun dis a part of that.

 

I luned in late, and literally turned on the game right as the #9 hitter made contact in teh top of the 4th.  It is now the top of the 5th.  so one inning. This is what I have seen.

I will again preface this with I hadnt seen teh first 4 innings, so we could have done soem great things!!

#9 hitter pops up to short right-center. High, lazy pop-up. Palacios (2B) Celestino (CF) Wallner (RF) all slowly jog toward teh ball and each watch it drop untouched in the middle of them. Now they are all young, and have not played a ton at the major league level, let alone with each other. But you HAVE to have a major league standard, and comin off teh heels of losing 17 of 23 and riding a 6 game losing streak, including 4 straight against even WORSE teams, you cannot allow this.  SOMEONE of that group of three had to be removed from the game, if for no other reason than to say "This is not acceptable". I dont care who it is. I would pick whoever you think can handle that "tough love"  I would choose either Celestino or Wallner.  This ultimately did not result in runs scoring, but that is not the point.

THEN 

to start the next inning, we decide to pull Joe Ryan after 4 innings and 69 pitches.  Here is where my "I didnt watch the earlier parts" comes in, maybe he was injuerd, maybe he was struggling, but thisis where you build heart!! While we want to win, what is the consequence of a loss now? Now is when creating a culture, settign teh standard is more important than any single win. This is when you let Ryan stay out there exactly BECAUSE he may not have his best stuff. NOW is the time you let him work through struggles, in a meaningless game, so that when there is a game that DOES mean something he knows he has been through games without his "A stuff" and can still get innings and win. This is an opportunity to let your coaching staff see what the kid has when he has 80-90-God forbid 100 pitches  with subpar stuff.

THEN...

Same inning, lazy fly to left field, Cave comes in to make the catch  and it pops out of his glove into the stands for a double. Again mistakes can happen, (and to be fair to Cave he did bust his ass on a triple)

 

But in the span of 1 inning you see poor play in the field, perceived lack of hustle, or communication, poor (in my mind) managing decisions, and THIS is why it looks liek we have a team playing without passion or without heart, no pride, or just no understanding of what is acceptable, ro no consequences for not meeting expectations.  Just plain ol' bad baseball to watch.

 

And of course this could just be one bad inning in a season long battle and even the best team have innings like these, This just seems to be the exception rather than the norm. And it makes me sad.

 

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CF's ball on the blooper, Celestino having a rough week.

Ryan did not have good stuff tonight, it is cold & rainy, and he is at a career high in innings pitched. Maybe send him out for the 5th (it was Trout, Ohtani and Ward), but otherwise I am good with the call

Cave's clunker: errors happen. He should have had it. It was raining, but he did hustle on the play (as he did on the triple in the bottom of the 4th), and I am sure he made no excuses for dropping it.

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There is one problem with playing with heart; IF things do not go well, for any reason misfortune becomes semi-constant, putting your total heart into it can turn into total frustration so one tries harder and harder , or the opposite, decides the harder he tries the worse it gets and then says to hell with it, it is not worth the effort.

The last few words remind me of some poster's attitude towards this season and team.

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On 9/24/2022 at 8:18 PM, mnfireman said:

CF's ball on the blooper, Celestino having a rough week.

Ryan did not have good stuff tonight, it is cold & rainy, and he is at a career high in innings pitched. Maybe send him out for the 5th (it was Trout, Ohtani and Ward), but otherwise I am good with the call

Cave's clunker: errors happen. He should have had it. It was raining, but he did hustle on the play (as he did on the triple in the bottom of the 4th), and I am sure he made no excuses for dropping it.

Cave always hustles. I've never seen him loligag at all!

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On 9/25/2022 at 12:18 AM, RpR said:

There is one problem with playing with heart; IF things do not go well, for any reason misfortune becomes semi-constant, putting your total heart into it can turn into total frustration so one tries harder and harder , or the opposite, decides the harder he tries the worse it gets and then says to hell with it, it is not worth the effort.

The last few words remind me of some poster's attitude towards this season and team.

Anyone who has played the game is going to have failures. After all baseball is a game of failures. A guy hits .300 and is way above average, yet that means he fails 7 out of 10 times! Players with heart can see that and just want to get better. That usually means working harder. I just don't see that in most of the current roster.

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This team has a "no heart" policy.  Rosario had to go.  Nelson Cruz shortly thereafter.  Carols Correa's pretty much the only guy with heart this year.  We'll do whatever it takes to ensure his departure.

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On 9/25/2022 at 8:41 AM, Unwinder said:

I think that dropped fly ball was more of a no-brain problem than a no-heart problem. 

It was a running full speed toward a wall, taking a look at said wall (looking away from the ball) and then just an error. Not a lack of hear or 'brain.' I mean, we could look at every error, or poor running play and say it's lack of heart. I think @Doc Munson said it right when he said "perceived" lack of heart. To those watching on TV or in the stands who don't get the game, it can look like lack of caring. Especially when the guys handle it well and don't outwardly show their disappointment or anger in self. 

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There has yet to be a metric developed that measures heart.  If there was one, this regime would not have moved on from guys like Eddie Rosario, Nelson Cruz and, soon, Carlos Correa. 

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6 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

There has yet to be a metric developed that measures heart.  If there was one, this regime would not have moved on from guys like Eddie Rosario, Nelson Cruz and, soon, Carlos Correa. 

No matter how much heart in a player, Father Time has final say.  And they do have metrics for that: Eddie hit .219 this year with little power, and Nelson hit .234 with little power.  Carlos would like a contract that will have some team paying him tens of millions of dollars for multiple seasons where he may be hitting like that. 

The team doesn't move on, the skills do, and the front office has no way of reversing that.  What the front office can do is try to anticipate it.

Sure, I'd like 2018 Eddie back, or 2019 Nelson, but those guys don't exist today.  If I'm wishing, I'll wish for 1969 Harmon, 1977 Rod and 2009 Joe while I'm at it.

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Would have been plenty of ABs for Eddie & Cruz.  What they did elsewhere is not necessary an indicator of what either would have done here.  But, hey, If you're good with Kiriloff & Larnach on the 60 day and Cave hitting .224 and Contreras hitting .111 who am I to argue?

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42 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Would have been plenty of ABs for Eddie & Cruz.  What they did elsewhere is not necessary an indicator of what either would have done here.  But, hey, If you're good with Kiriloff & Larnach on the 60 day and Cave hitting .224 and Contreras hitting .111 who am I to argue?

Players with heart don't land on the 60-day, and they revert to their high-octane days if brought back to their old team.  You've given a pretty good synopsis of your view.  It coincides closely with magical thinking, and I'm uninterested in pursuing a blind alley once I see it.

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5 hours ago, ashbury said:

Players with heart don't land on the 60-day, and they revert to their high-octane days if brought back to their old team.  You've given a pretty good synopsis of your view.  It coincides closely with magical thinking, and I'm uninterested in pursuing a blind alley once I see it.

Should never have left their old team.  There was no adequate PROVEN replacement.  I'm not terribly interested in what your uninterested in pursuing.

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