Twodogs

I didn't think Hill could even pitch until like July?

Wow, I didn't think about that, but yeah, if there are a few double headers added into the schedule so as to make up some games then this pitching depth will be huge during the season.

I think the best pitchers will get weak contact due to some sort of movement on their pitch. Mariano Rivera had that cutter that would look good and then when you swing all of the sudden it's off of the end of the bat. Now Mariano could rack up some K's too. But he could also get weak flyball and a weak ground out too. Jack Morris had I think a splitter, and he'd get hit all the time, bit when he was on, the hits weren't great. I mean there are tons of guys with 95 - 100 mph fastballs and still get lit up. So I think the premier pitcher would be able to combine that pitch to contact, with also being a strikeout pitcher when you need to be. Those that can combine both skill sets will be able to pitch deep into games and be able to get themselves out of jams when they arise

Michael Cuddyer is another guy who played very well at multiple positions for a number of years.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/803283-new-york-mets-top-20-starting-pitchers-in-team-history-no-20-11#slide10 The numbers 20 - 11 of the New York Mets have a few interesting names.

I dont think the Twins avoided hard throwing strikeout pitchers back then as they had guys like Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano, however, I think guys like that were hard to come by. They still are. So they filled their staff with ground ball guys and they weren't terrible. How many division titles did they win back in those days? They just needed one or two studs leading the way and then those average to just below average guys were ok in the 3 4 and 5 spots. So when they had from 2003 - 2006 Johan Santana and Brad Radke at the front of the rotation, (and Radke was a pitch to contact guy but he was obviously better than those other guys as he could repeat his success year after year.) Nonetheless with those two at the front the guys who came in behind them just had to hold the ship afloat. Then after Radke was gone they had Santana and Liriano for a year or two also. So I think if the Twins could have afforded it they would have loved to have 3 or 4 Santana types. Just wasn't going to happen and so they went the pitch for the ground ball route so that they could at least put a staff out there. I feel as though they were working within their constraints. Now they have never done a great job of drafting pitching, for whatever reason, but I still remember flops like Willie Banks

Yeah Liriano should have been ahead a couple of those guys? It said I think they needed 4 years with the Twins, I'm assuming Liriano had that much.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/571110-minnesota-twins-all-time-top-20-starting-pitchers.amp.html This article is almost 10 years old, but dang, the Twins havent had many real good pitchers in their existence. They have probably had a few 1 - 2 year guys like Morris, Smiley, Koosman, etc... But to see some of those names in the top 20??? Granted Berrios will knock a few of them out, but still.

I think the big difference between all of those guys and Kaat is that everyone of those other guys are everyday players. Not many pitchers have been brought up at all, especially ones from back in the 60's and 70's

Just looked Mack's Japan stats and they looked almost the same as him MLB stats, when he came back with Boston and KC it seemed as though his production was still pretty good but never seemed to get a fair shot at playing time?

Harper was a good hitter, but I think his shortcomings came on defense. A lot of guys in the TK era suffered due to their mediocre defense. David Ortiz comes to mind. Was gotten rid of for Dougie baseball. It was a different era back then.

Not many pitchers mentioned on here, but one that comes to mind for me is Kyle Lohse; he probably had a better career away from Minnesota than with Minnesota. But he just seemed to keep pitching forever and was always decent. Had some good seasons for St Louis and Milwaukee.

Crazy disappearance, 1994 the strike shortened season Mack hit .333 with a .966 OPS and then was gone. Dude could hit.

Jaques Jones, another of the Soul Patrol, had like 7 - 8 really nice seasons and then just disappeared.

I get what you are saying, but we weren't really talking about Harmon and Rod we were talking about Hrbek and Mauer. But I think Carew in his prime was a better hitter than Harmon, but that doesn't mean that Harmon wasn't great. But when we are talking about Hrbek and Mauer, I mean I really like Hrbek and I don't really care for Mauer that much, but I think when you look at batting titles Mauer wins it. I mean what was Mauer's OPS+ when he played in the Dome??? Because Hrbek's whole career was in the Dome. I mean who was the better hitter? Who would you rather have 9 of? Pete Rose? 118 OPS+ career or Mike Greenwell? 121 OPS+ I mean I know OPS+ tries to factor in where things are being played, but seriously, how much did Target field affect Mauer. I mean does Mike Greenwell have a 121 OPS+ had he played in Cincinnati during the 70's?? I mean where do you think these guys contemporaries rank these guys? Take all of the ball players who played with and against Hrbek and where do you think Hrbek ranks in their minds as far as being a great hitter? I mean if you could ask the guys back from the 80's? You know Ripken, Boggs, Mattingly, Gwynn, etc... I mean if you could I'm sure they'd all say that Hrbek was a really good player in his prime. But now ask Joe Mauer's contemporaries and what do you think those guys would say about Joe?? They'd probably tell you that he was one of the best pure hitters that they played against. I get that Hrbek was good and I actually like him more. But I can't overlook 3 batting titles.

Right, but the question was who were the best hitters, period. OPS+ factors in power, that is why Killebrew is much higher than Carew, but the yearly batting title award isn't named after Harmon Killebrew, it's named after Rod Carew. So Carew could flirt with .400 but be considered a worse hitter than Killebrew? I mean that is comparing apples and oranges. Mauer was not a power hitter, just a pure hitter, and year Hrbek was also very good, but I don't even think the people of Hrbek's era would have rated him all that high in his era, he was very good. But Mauer in his era was one of the best in the league for a handful of years. But not much power so OPS+ would maybe not be that high. I know that OPS+ is highly factored for building lineups for today's teams, but not all teams in different eras worried about OPS+, and had they, I'm sure Puckett and Carew would have done something about those numbers if people were using them to judge how good of a hitter they were, but they didn't, so hard to use that stat as a be all end all argument against these hitters. Pete Rose has an OPS+ of 118? He wouldn't be one of the top 5 hitters in Twins history had he played for the Twins? But yeah, Hrbek definitely did some things better than Mauer, and Hrbek found ways to win. But in my opinion, just pure hitter it should go to Mauer.

IDK, I don't see it, Mauer won 3 batting titles. Hard to say Hrbek was a better hitter than Joe, I mean more power obviously, but a lot of people had more power than Joe. About the only thing I could say about Herbie vs Joe is that Hrbek was probably more of a team player and maybe did more (little things) to help his team win than Joe did. But I think overall Joe was a better hitter than Hrbek. Maybe you can make those other cases as Hrbek is a 2 time world champion and Joe is not, but 3 batting titles kind of speak for themselves.

I agree. It is unfair for them to basically double penalize them.

Do we have Pineda for the playoffs? I thought that when serving a suspension during the season that the player becomes playoff ineligible??

I know people have talked about it, but for some reason I just don't think MLB will "de" juice the ball. Could you imagine all the fly balls that were hit last year and now none of them leave the park? We will have a lot of low scoring baseball games. To the point where I think MLB would be very scared to the point where they may lose viewership. You know and I know that lineups have been constructed to mash, and if the ball is changed to the point that it doesn't go as far then all of the lineups out there would have a tough time producing. I don't know for sure, but I just don't think MLB will mess with that. Not right now.

It's starting, so that's good. Pomona USD shut down, Glendora unified shut down, San Fransisco shut down all schools, Simi Valley shut them all down and Los Angeles unified is close to doing it also. That would be a good idea to keep all of the kids away from school for at least 2 to 4 weeks to slow the spread of the virus. At least until they can get a handle on it. Or develop a vaccine or something.

Well, my school is in Southern California, so yeah, it's a high transmission area for sure. Again I said, yeah I'm pissed, but I can see why they cancelled stuff, but my point is then they really need to cancel everything, including school. I mean you can't sit here and tell me that 2400 kids plus, 100's of staff members all sitting in classes together and then getting up and sitting in new classes together and then going to lunch together, I mean 2 lunches that's 1300 kids plus staff eating together, etc.... Even if you only have half a brain, you can't even make an argument that that is safe.

I guess I can see them cancelling big gatherings even though I feel this is a big over reaction. However, if you're going to do it, then why are they still letting our kids go to school? I mean the school I work at has 2400 kids at it? You can't tell me that it won't get spread extremely fast in situations like that? Plus you have people of all ages at a school and where I live the people all come from different communities from around the area. So if it is so bad to cancel any large gathering then shouldn't school across the country be cancelled? I mean why are they sitting there second guessing that one and pulling the trigger so quickly on others. So I guess if you are going to do it, then I'll back you and be in agreement that it's probably for the best to cancel things for 2 weeks to a month to try and get things under control, but then you need to cancel everything including school. Right? And yes I'm a little bit pissed because I'm out here at Spring training and only got to see one of the four games that I purchased. But I got over that within an hour or so. But I just don't understand how they keep kids going to school on a regular basis?

All looks good except I'm not sure how Wade goes ahead of Marwin in right and left. If there is an injury to our left fielder I'd bet big money that Gonzo is in there most days, not Wade. JMO